Can PA refract?

[LENNY]

Can Physician assistant refract patients by themselves? Does anyone know any PA's working for an OMD?
Thanks in advance for all of your help

[Oedema]

PA's can't do anything on their own... they have to have a supervising MD

[chip anderson]

Depends a bit on where one is. Most refractions today in OMD's office are done automatedly, refinded by a Professional Assistant, and possilbly re-checked by the physician during his actual five minite or less visit with the patient. Of course if some pathology has been found, the physician will spend more time.
But during the actual refraction, there ain't nobody but the patient and the tech in da room.

Chip

Who care's now that O.D.'s themselves are beginning to think they are too medically qualified to waste their time with simple refraction? Apearently the only reason such regulations are still hanging on is to keep the patient from by-passing the doctor's office entirely.

Note: The above is not a judgement, just an observation.

[icare]

Who care's now that O.D.'s themselves are beginning to think they are too medically qualified to waste their time with simple refraction?

Note: The above is not a judgement, just an observation.

WT"...."? :hammer:

I can refract a snail's eye at 1000 yards with one martini tied behind my back.

[Specs]

As long as the PA is in the good graces of his employer, the MD. There is nothing he/she can't do.

[rbaker]

In the United States physician assistants should not be confused with medical assistants or COT's or COMT's, who aren't qualified to do much more than perform testing and refraction under an MD's direct supervision. Physician assistants do 80 percent of what doctors do: conduct exams, diagnose conditions, prescribe medications, and assist in surgery. While PAs are supervised by physicians, that is to say they can not practice autonomously, they have considerable independence and can perform all procedures in a medical or clinical practice. The training is much shorter than it is for doctors, typically consisting of three years, post-bachelor's and licensing is on a state by state basis.

The clinical pecking order is:

Medical Doctor
Physician Assistant
APRN or Nurse Practitioner
RN
COMT
COT
Medical Assistant

I was a Physician Assistant for the last years of my working career. Our web site is: http://www.aapa.org/

[Fezz]

WT"...."? :hammer:

I can refract a snail's eye at 1000 yards with one martini tied behind my back.

Impressive!

;):cheers::D:cheers:;)

[gemstone]

I had an eye exam at an MDs office once. I was taken to a room and refracted by a "tech", then taken to another room where the MD came in and looked at me eyes. He signed the bottom of the RX the "tech" had written.

[chip anderson]

Gemstone:

You'd be supprise how many ophthalmologists don't personally sign anything. Often the tech signs the doctor's name (or uses a stamp) sometimes with the tech's intitials.
Could you see well out of the glasses? If so what's your complaint. Sometimes some of the best surgeons, best physicians are lousy refractors, some of them even know this and will allow techs (who are sometimes good refractors to do the refraction). While I can't do and only rarely wish I could do refraction, I have had numerous "continuing education" courses on this and it's not rocket science. It's more being taught how and then practicing until proficency is achieved. Jack Copeland practice on animals, including owls and other species, became perhaps the best reputed authority on the subject.
Chip

[jediron1]

In the United States physician assistants should not be confused with medical assistants or COT's or COMT's, who aren't qualified to do much more than perform testing and refraction under an MD's direct supervision. Physician assistants do 80 percent of what doctors do: conduct exams, diagnose conditions, prescribe medications, and assist in surgery. While PAs are supervised by physicians, that is to say they can not practice autonomously, they have considerable independence and can perform all procedures in a medical or clinical practice. The training is much shorter than it is for doctors, typically consisting of three years, post-bachelor's and licensing is on a state by state basis.

The clinical pecking order is:

Medical Doctor
Physician Assistant
APRN or Nurse Practitioner
RN
COMT
COT
Medical Assistant

I was a Physician Assistant for the last years of my working career. Our web site is: http://www.aapa.org/

I've worked for many MD's and OD's and I never saw any DIRECT supervision but that depends on what your calling direct supervision. In most practices direct supervision is coming in for less than five minutes and seeing the patient and sometimes talking with the tech and that's called direct supervision. If the states were to implement the true meaning of how the laws are written we would have a much better adherence to the licensing laws then what we today. Because as we all know most large chains all get away with having unlicensed people in their stores in states that have licensing laws.

just my 2 cents which I think now is worth .002 cents, boy is inflation eating my dollar!

[LENNY]

In the United States physician assistants should not be confused with medical assistants or COT's or COMT's, who aren't qualified to do much more than perform testing and refraction under an MD's direct supervision. Physician assistants do 80 percent of what doctors do: conduct exams, diagnose conditions, prescribe medications, and assist in surgery. While PAs are supervised by physicians, that is to say they can not practice autonomously, they have considerable independence and can perform all procedures in a medical or clinical practice. The training is much shorter than it is for doctors, typically consisting of three years, post-bachelor's and licensing is on a state by state basis.

The clinical pecking order is:

Medical Doctor
Physician Assistant
APRN or Nurse Practitioner
RN
COMT
COT
Medical Assistant

I was a Physician Assistant for the last years of my working career. Our web site is: http://www.aapa.org/

Thanks for the info but it does not answer my original question. Can PA if they want to and train to refract and diagnose and treat ophthalmogical problems under direct (somewhere in the huge office) supervision of OMD?

[chip anderson]

Lenny:

Yes!

Unless your specific state forbids it and the board of optometry feels it has some sort of authority over OMD's (which it usually doesn't).

Chp

[jediron1]

Thanks for the info but it does not answer my original question. Can PA if they want to and train to refract and diagnose and treat ophthalmogical problems under direct (somewhere in the huge office) supervision of OMD?

As I noted before "what is considered direct supervision " in a lot of places that phrase has a wide latitude of interpretation. I have actually been told that in some cases if the doc leaves the store he is given a beeper and if a state official comes in he better high tail it back. :drop:

[chip anderson]

Lenny:
MD's have a lot more latitude about what they can deligate to thier staff.
I am relatively positive you can refract. As to diagnosing and treating ophthalmic problems, this might be another matter.
Why don't you ask one?

Chip

[LENNY]

Lenny:
MD's have a lot more latitude about what they can deligate to thier staff.
I am relatively positive you can refract. As to diagnosing and treating ophthalmic problems, this might be another matter.
Why don't you ask one?

Chip

Unfortunately I never met a PA working for OMD. But one of my friends wants to be in Ophthalmic field without being an OD or OMD.

[slubberdegullian]

I had an eye exam at an MDs office once. I was taken to a room and refracted by a "tech", then taken to another room where the MD came in and looked at me eyes. He signed the bottom of the RX the "tech" had written.

It beats being under anesthesia and waking up with a cigarette in your mouth

[LENNY]

It beats being under anesthesia and waking up with a cigarette in your mouth

Are you refering to my picture!?

[slubberdegullian]

Are you refering to my picture!?

no.

[npdr]

Most PAs can make easily 90k. I don't think any ophthalmologist will pay a PA to do refractions for 90K.

[jediron1]

Most PAs can make easily 90k. I don't think any ophthalmologist will pay a PA to do refractions for 90K.

Maybe in Cal. where the cost of living is much higher but here your looking at 60 to 65k tops! Your right most MD's would not pay that. ;)

[rbaker]

Most PAs can make easily 90k. I don't think any ophthalmologist will pay a PA to do refractions for 90K.

Boing . . . Most PA's would go bananas in a general ophthalmic practice with the exception of a large clinical/teaching setting.

[jediron1]

Boing . . . Most PA's would go bananas in a general ophthalmic practice with the exception of a large clinical/teaching setting.

Really? I thought they would enjoy the reduced work load and not having all the pressures that go with GP side. just my take ;)

[DoubleD]

Most PAs can refract, plus additional duties under the wing of MD.