Signet-Armorlite is really doing it to independents. They are selling their KODAK UNIQUE to Pearle accounts at the same price, our wholesale lab gets it from them. First UNIQUE "Then the world" Bye bye independents, whoever you are!
Signet-Armorlite is really doing it to independents. They are selling their KODAK UNIQUE to Pearle accounts at the same price, our wholesale lab gets it from them. First UNIQUE "Then the world" Bye bye independents, whoever you are!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig
1-Kodak Unique is owned by Signet Armorlite- Family Held business
2-Ice TEch- Allen owned business
3-Younger Image- Great availability, prices and family owned
I use all 3 with great sucess and have no reason to use much else; it fits all my clients needs except for some 1.74 progressives for a high minus. To my knowledge, they are some of the few who are not competing with us at this point.
Craig
Since #2 is ICE-TECH I can answer this. We use ICE-TECH designs to create ICE-TECH points.Originally Posted by gemstone
Progressives? That's interesting.
Ah, well, good for you. The point is all sell to or buy from chains when they can. Business is business.
To clairify your point when you say; all who sell to or buy from chains. But some manage this better than others. In sunglasses Oakley and Maui Jim are both big volume brands that manage their chain distribution better than most, by being selective in which chains and making sure that the retail price is maintained. In lens distribution keeping the retail price the same is almost impossible so managing the business to chains and independants will be more difficult than sunglass. A lens company who wants to maintain a brand that independant retailers wants to sell must be very aware of this. Some are better at this than others. Lens companies have a big advantage over sunglass companies since they can brand the same product with a different name and not have any consumer confussion only independants unhappiness.
From what I have been told you can also get Kodak in LUX also.
I wonder - IF LC is using The auto Graph here in the USA - would they be producing them in their central lab - ? I did not think they had free form machines ?
Does Shamir require a certain type of AR to be applied to there lenses - ?
I had always thought LUX used essilor labs for their ar coatings ? ( I could be wrong ) - but i would not think shamir would allow essilor ar products to go on there lenses - since I SAW Shamir may have their own ar coatings ?
DoeS ANYONE KNOW WHAT AR THEY USE ON THEM ?
I HAVE HAD 4 PTS in the past 3 weeks PRICE SHOPPING ME - COMING FROM THEM - ( I AM ALMOST CERTAIN ) - SINCE THEY WHERE TELLING ME - THEY WANTED the AVP- AUTOGRAPH WITH A EASY TO CLEAN AR ?
THEY DID COME OUT AND SAY - THEY COULDN'T GET LC'S WONDERFUL SCOTCH GUARD ON THEM - AND WHAT WOULD OUR STORE USE ?
I HAVE NO IDEA - I KNOW OUR WHOLESALE LAB HAS THEM ON THERE PRICE CARD - BUT UNSURE WHAT WOULD BE A COMPARABLE AR TO ORDER THEM WITH ?
WHAT DO U THINK THEY ARE APPLYING FOR IN HOUSE SLICK AR ? - IF THEY ARE NOT USING THEIR ESSILOR SCOTCH GUARD.
ALTHOUGH WE DO NOT SELL THESE AUTOGRAPHS ( OR AT LEAST I HAVE NOT ) - WE USUALLY USE CRIZAL ALIZE or Endura - on our other orders
(( sorry for the caps - ))
do u suggest me trying to get these pts into one of the varilux free forms we usually do ? 1 of them sounded like they did not want to hear me trying to switch them into something we regularly use - ( makes me laugh that they are so dead set on something lux is promoting or suggesting !!)
B
Last edited by bt5050; 05-19-2008 at 09:05 AM.
Quote them an Autograph w/ ScotchGuard. If they know what they want, don't try to change their mind. The selling was already done for you. It's LensCrafters price-of course you can beat that. Sounds like a slam dunk to me.
I priced shopped LC recently and was told that their super high end was an Essilor Accolade. I was at the Mall of America store in Bloomington, Mn
I'm not a good secret shopper
Christina
There is a lab in NY that is going to start offering nothing but independent lens companies products, even the AR and hydro offered is going to be their products. Very forward thinking, Rochester Optical is the name, run by a really great bunch of guys. Anyway you want independent it doesn't get any more independent than that. Support them and they'll support those small lens vendors who support you.
I'm having a hard time figuring out what will be on their lens menu. Younger Ok, but who else??
Shamir?, Kodak?, Excelite?, Seiko? X-Cel?
i had found out that each store is doing something a little differant
that pt came back - had gone to 2 differant stores (( same state even - )
and could get there
1.67 or poly with scotch guard accolade
and in another a hydro ar - shamir autograph
I went ahead and placed him in the ellispe 360 - since we usually fit these and i know what to expect -
i am sure he will be happy them -
b
ps - u r right - our price hands down was less then their even after their discounts they do -
that is nuts !
guess they have to cover all those - redo - I don't like my glasses customers -
Craig:
I thought I was the only one who can't understand why ECP's/Optician's support these two companies. I prefer Hoya lenses myself. Also, are you aware Essilor has put in a bid to purchase Signet Armorlite? I do not sell Luxottica or Essilor products and doing just fine. Hoya is a company you should look at. Their lenses are not sold at any wholesale/retail chain and they are not buying up all the independent labs.
Two of my favorite labs over the years are now Hoya labs - I still use them (because of the people in customer service, and the grey-beards at the end of the bench) but they aren't independent any more.
Can we really blame the lens companies going to the big box stores? They sell product!!! Example: AR sales for independents range in the low 20's while box/chains is 50+. What is your Free Form percentage? 1-3% at best? As independants I think is up to us to drive this ship but we can't seem to embrace the trends until the big boxes lead the way. Who is the professional? It is us so let's jump into the driver's seat!
Rant over...maybe.
Lee Prewitt, ABOM
Thats interesting because when working at Ind. shops our A/R was about 90% and at LC we hover in the 13-30% range on any given month.
However I do agree with you that the Lens Cos want to sell lenses and with the big boxes needing to buy lenses they sit down and play "Lets Make A Deal." At the end of the day its all about $.
Your rant depends on what kind of professional your talking about. If I was an ophthalmic professional then I would fit the patient with what suits their situation best, if I was a sales professional I would sell them what suits my bottom line the best. The big box/chains sell and that's for the most part all they do. They have quotas and ridiculous numbers that have to be meet, this does not lead me to think professionalism.
Now that said, I think that the FF percentage you gave depends on the practice. I worked in an office where 30 to 40% was FF lenses, and we made sure that it was only offered to patients that had cyls over 1.00 diopter or oblique cyls over 0.50; considering that threshold cut a number of our patients from the start 30 to 40% isn't too bad.
These are great lenses. My question is and what I have been seeing is LC employees in unlicensed states able to fit them correctly? It seems to be a hit or miss for many patients in regards to many other products they sell.
:drop:
I think your approach is shortchanging many client Rxs that would otherwise benefit from optimal FF lenses. I used to too limit it based on cyls early on.
I've sinced found that was a mistake...fwiw.
barry
So opticians in unlicensed states don't know how to fit progressives?
I am not Licensed and work in an unlicensed state and can tell you (from my experience anyway) that I have been given better training as far as fitting Pals at LC than I have at the 4 Ind Opticals I have worked at usually from LC employees who have been doing this 15+ years and from some great Lab Managers whom I have worked with.
At one Ind practice I was at the "Manager" if I can even call her that, literally tried to fit everyone into the same lens and fit everyone the same exact way (I honestly don't think she could have even described the differences between the Pal designs offered from the Lab). Though she too was unlicensed because she saw no point in being Licensed since she wouldn't be paid any more :hammer:
Another manager would just put everyone into the most $$$ lens and was, in my opinion, swindling patients into things they really didn't need. Again, she was a manager, and Licensed, at an Ind optical I have worked at.
I really don't think where you work, or what state, or wether you are Licensed or not has anything with the individual Optician's ability to fit a Pal properly.
Rant off :)
~Crazy
So I'm not supposed to blindfold myself, spin around then randomly hold a marker out and draw the seg mark on whatever the pen hits? If I go to a licensed state, do they give me a homing device? :hammer: :D
Come on, licensed or not, LC or private practice, working at any combination neither guarantees you're a dolt or a perfect optician.
I've seen great success with these free form Shamir lenses. I'm not aware of any returns on them that can be attributed to the lens, but I do know of at least 2 instances where the patient recommended the lens to a friend or spouse.
You are going back 15+ years, LC HAD a great training program then. You had modules to work on and had finish sets of them, you had a hands on training whether you were in a licensed state or not. There are a lot of good Opticians that came from that program. Fast forward to today, the training program they have now is so watered down from that, not near as comprehensive and certainly not near what is needed for some of the new technologies.
Now some math, out of those three people you worked with you are not the norm, and are .333 of the equation, they are the other .666 of it . In baseball that's a pretty decent average, but for the consumer a 1 in 3 shot of getting someone that knows what they are doing is not so good. I mean, how is the consumer to know this?
Choosing not to further ones education for the reason of " not getting paid more" is a ridiculous excuse. I learn something new in this field weekly or even daily in some cases, I don't get paid more. I am ,however, more capable of working with newer materials, PAL designs and understanding the intricacies of optics.
We can not forget that we are talking about a different design lens requiring paying attention to as worn optimization. These are not the PAL's of yesterday.
Last edited by flexonman; 11-05-2009 at 10:57 AM.
:drop:
My point is that big box sells...period. I know, I worked for one for 5 years. As for the percentages there is always offices that do better. My percentages are closer to the national averages for these catagories.
Lee Prewitt, ABOM
Back to the original issue... I'd be willing to bet that the lens Shamir is giving to the big boxes isn't the Autograph II, but the Element... Much less expensive, but in marketing terms, very similar. Not the same customization, but its still backside freeform...
Don't forget in all thsi speculation that the STARTING Rx is just as variable for a specific patient, depending on:
1. The doctor
2. The day
3. The time of day
4. Emotional state
5. and the "discretionary" *fudge* factor that all prescribers bring to the table.
You can improve the dispensing end all you want, and the product as well.
But in the end, our current refractive paradigm is not robust enough to ensure patient satisfaction.
Barry
This is true, and at a lot of the big boxes, the exam lasts about 15min. That was the case when I worked at a store run by ECCA. 4 exams per hour... I think they would have done away with the doctor and just had a tech use an autorefractor if it would have been legal...
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