To dispense or not to dispense...

[EyeFitWell]

If you've had a job come back off power or off axis from a lab several times in a row, is it better to dispense the glasses to the patient and hope they don't notice or risk angering the patient by going over your ETA and getting it right?

[CME4SPECS]

Do it right...or don't do it!

[HarryChiling]

If you've had a job come back off power or off axis from a lab several times in a row, is it better to dispense the glasses to the patient and hope they don't notice or risk angering the patient by going over your ETA and getting it right?

Go over ETA and get it right, of course all the patient and let them know.

[For-Life]

Depends on the tolerance levels. Most likely I would go to the not to dispense side. Client will be mad that they have to be repeated, but will be furious with a delay and not being about to see.

[EyeFitWell]

My opinion= get it right or lose the patient's trust forever.
My boss's opinion= dispense and hope pt doesn't notice a problem. Personally, I consider it unethical and goes against my personal integrity as a professional. :-(

[CME4SPECS]

Good for you! Where've you been hiding?

[Chris Ryser]

Just do it right. Handing out bad jobs will haunt you some day.

[THE MEB]

sounds like neither your boss or the lab are a good fit for you, or for anyone with principles and integrity.

[obxeyeguy]

My boss's opinion= dispense and hope pt doesn't notice a problem.

Thats the "when in doubt, send it out" theory. Does not happen with my name on it here.

[cocoisland58]

Here is what I have done in the past when something has come in more than once with issues or when the patient cannot reasonably wait any longer. Call the lab and tell them to edge new lenses and send them overnight or as soon as humanly possible, and make sure they are spot on or there will be hell to pay. Call the patient and tell them that the lenses did not pass your final inspection...again. But tell them that they are wearable(if they truly are)and that they are welcome to use the glasses while the corrected lenses are being fabricated. Tell the patient that you are keeping track of the process and that this situation is also unacceptable to you. Give them a little extra off the bottom line if you like but usually it isn't necessary. The other option is to edge in house yourself so that you have more control.

[Paul E. Carbonate]

I would say it depends on how you define off-power and off-axis.

[jediron1]

I would say it depends on how you define off-power and off-axis.

Really! What if the order called for a -2.75 lab sends it out and says it's within ansi standards at -3.00. You read on your lensometer as -3.25 are you going to except that? I have seen this happen with a neutralization.
Actual rx was -2.75 but when read through lensometer it came up - 3.00
Ordered as -3.00 came in from lab at -3.25 within ansi standards but a full
half off from the original rx. Gentleman came in to me because he was being told it's with in tolerance. So I checked everything. Every thing was ok. So I finally said who did your exam, he said I did not have one he said the old one was working fine. So I called the Doc's office and got the correct rx now he's fine. To me their is a fine line between off-power and on-power. just my 2 cents

[chip anderson]

Often I see patients who come in for a new pair of spectacles, the reason may vary from "Just want something new." to "Old one'w were lost or broken."
When one talks with the patient, they say: " I had an eye exam recently, the doctor said I had only insignificant changes, nothing to get new glasses for."
Of course if we are making new glasses anyway we want to use the latest findings even if deamed insignifcant for change.
My question is: "Why doesn't the prescriber give the patient a copy?"
Is he afraid that the patient will show it to an unscrupulous optician who will insist that he get new glasses?

Chip

[THE MEB]

we require that the patient is given their rx immediately after exam, that way there is no question of impropriety.

[EyeFitWell]

I would say it depends on how you define off-power and off-axis.

I define it based on ANSI standards. If it is outside of ansi tolerance, it's wrong. That's what the standards are there for. But I have a serious personal issue with my integrity being in question and being asked to dispense things that I KNOW are outside of tolerance, and I'm certainly not trying to reject any more than I have to.
:-( Makes me wonder if I'm the only person with any professional responsibility around here....

[THE MEB]

cmon, you can't be serious. That is why most of us log on and read these threads, because we are conscientious enough to care. Sure, there are a few on here with adverserial tones, but you will get that in any walk of life.

[CuriousCat]

It's either right within accepted standards, or it's wrong. No grey area here.

[THE MEB]

yes, I hope with my statement I didn't come off of saying you were wrong, you are absolutely right, in my opnion to not pass a lens that didn't meet ANSI standards. I know our office would never tolerate allowing a lens to pass that didn't meet ANSI's criterium.

[Diane]

Really! What if the order called for a -2.75 lab sends it out and says it's within ansi standards at -3.00. You read on your lensometer as -3.25 are you going to except that? I have seen this happen with a neutralization.
Actual rx was -2.75 but when read through lensometer it came up - 3.00
Ordered as -3.00 came in from lab at -3.25 within ansi standards but a full
half off from the original rx. Gentleman came in to me because he was being told it's with in tolerance. So I checked everything. Every thing was ok. So I finally said who did your exam, he said I did not have one he said the old one was working fine. So I called the Doc's office and got the correct rx now he's fine. To me their is a fine line between off-power and on-power. just my 2 cents

This is exactly the point. At what point is within tolerance. For one, I believe that neutralization should not be within tolerance. It should be right on. Jediron1 makes a point that I've advocated for a long time.

Diane

[specs4you]

Within the Ansi standards and you can dispense, outside and you send it to the lab .......I use the technique one person mentioned already of ...if the pt is annoyed (multi. lab redo.....situation) then let them take them while the lab readys a new set and mount in house when they arrive.
Offer them some dough off if necessary. Afterall, the pt is right in this case to be ......im-patient.....

Nice to see you all are in agreement since I put some topics out lately of the same topic and most told me to just let my ethics go......after I was told by a new employer that they just ck the jobs in basically (which to them is unwrapping and putting in the auto lensometer without knowing what they are looking at on the screen and decades with no ansi standards...or knowledge of......................................

Well nice to know I was jumped on ...to conform to slipshoddiness that makes me uncomfortable yet really I see you all are not coming from that point of view at all......................

[Refractingoptician.com]

[{

[Fezz]

# 1. CAll the patient immediately and say "Mrs/Mr XXXXX this is Tom calling from Do it right Eyeglasses . Your eyeglasses have come in , but I personally check every job before it can be dispensed to the patient . If I find anything that I do not like about the eyeglasses then my policy is to return the job to the lab and have them re-do it until I personally am 100 percent satisfied. Mrs/Mr XXXXXX I am calling to apologize for the delay but I am not happy with your job and I am re-ordering a new job for you . Or If you would like will give you a 100 per cent refund . I feel that you hired me & are paying me for my expertise to do the job right . It will take approximately 1 week and I will call you again when it comes back. "

This technique works , but you must call the patient imediately and stay on top of things before the patient calls you .

# 2 . The lab gets one re-do . THAT's it , THAT'S ALL.
# 3 . If the second go around does not work there is a problem at that lab . Do not give them a 3rd chance at it . Send that job immediately to a new lab .
# 4 . I have never had this lab technique fail in 28 years .
# 5 . My philosophy is that a bad job will always be unacceptable from the same lab if they have more than 2 shots at doing it . It indicates an inability to solve problems and pay attention at the lab end . SO imediately move that job to a new environment and break the cycle that is causing the problem .
# 6 . I have no idea what an ETA is but my other philosophy is this "If it is not part of the solution ..then it must be part of the problem " so get rid of it .

Great Post!!!!

:cheers::cheers::cheers:

[ziggy]

If you've had a job come back off power or off axis from a lab several times in a row, is it better to dispense the glasses to the patient and hope they don't notice or risk angering the patient by going over your ETA and getting it right?

This is a GREAT thread. The bottom line is YOUR professional standards. If YOU are checking out the job and YOU fail the job then so-be-it, it fails. If your boss wants to take that responsability then thats another story. I'll bet if you call the patient, explain what has happened and ask do you want it or do you want it right. They will say right. BTW do you work for a chain or Indy?

[jediron1]

[quote=Paul E. Carbonate;231971]The original question asked about what we'd do if a job came back "off power and off axis" from a lab. It didn't mention ANSI standards.


If the job comes back off power or off axis what standards are you going to use if you already don't have one in place? Some one might say off axis is 8 degrees. Another might say no if it's 2 degrees it's off axis. Technical your both right, but if you use the ANSI standard at least you have something that has been time tested and is usually pretty reliable.

[Refractingoptician.com]

This is a GREAT thread. The bottom line is YOUR professional standards. If YOU are checking out the job and YOU fail the job then so-be-it, it fails. If your boss wants to take that responsability then thats another story. I'll bet if you call the patient, explain what has happened and ask do you want it or do you want it right. They will say right. BTW do you work for a chain or Indy?

If you follow what I proposed earlier :
1) You never let the boss have the opportunity of taking the responibility . Hopefully , your boss hired you for your Professional Optician abilities not for your blame shifting abilities . You are the one checking out the job. As such, then, the person who bought that job has hired you and your expertise . Do you think that person would hire you to cheat them of what they paid for and expected ?

2) You DEFINITELY DO NOT ask "...do you want it or do you want it right ?" You say "... I checked this job personally and it does not meet my standards , which I believe you hired me for . Therefore I would like at this time to offer you a full 100 percent refund as the job is going to be later than we agreed upon . Otherwise I would like to send this job back to redone until it meets and exceeds the level of precision that I would want for my own eyeglasses . I would also like to point out that I will personally check out this job again when it comes from the original lab and if it is still not right then the job will be going to a completely different lab . "

If you are willing to offer it to them in a substandard form ...if they agree, Do you understand what you are telling them about your own morals and standards ? The only choice you offer is their money back right now or you will re-do the job . You never offer substandard in lieu of good .

Wording and the delivery of the wording is critical . But if you mean what you say then you won't have to even think about it.