Scotchguard/crizal/opinions

[HarryChiling]

Harry:

I want to offer you another viewpoint:

Your approach appears to be founded upon the premises that:
1. Your client's would not purchase eyewear unless they "needed" to.
2. Because they do not want or desire eyewear, this, then, is a purchase that you assume they want to spend as little money on as possible.
3. Therefore, you act as their guradian of value.

I might suggest that you could be selling your clients short. On another point, I suggest that by offering a multi-choice, multierd-tier AR offering, is contributing to client confusion in a way you are not in tuned with. Further, in many cases, this multi-decision eyewear-choice presentation is *not*, IMHO, what people really want from their trusted vision professional.

In my practice, I *only* offer the absolute, top-of-the-line lab-applied ARs. For orders using finished lenses, 90% of what I select is also top-of-the-line. Only when I am in a budget-package presentation do I drop down to a lower-priced AR. And at those times, the client doesn't even know that I've made the choice I have.

I try to keep it as simple as possible. And I agree with you that the most "sophisticated"progressives are not always my first choice for all clients. But I normally do not offer a menu of progressive choices from which they are to choose. I simply (pre) select the best for them. I feel this is why they want my service to begin with.

If cost becomes (or continues) to remain an imporatnt issue, they will not doubt try Costco or the like.

My feeling is: If they are happy/satisfied there, then they have found their ideal eyewear home. If not, I stand ready to deliver the same top-quality, premium dispensing experience and advice I always have.

That's whi *I* am. And I think that's who *you* are too. You just may not be aware of some of your subconcious assumtions about your clients.

Maybe...or maybe not.

Respectfully, FWIW

Barry

Interesting points as always Barry, the margins are not there for me to sell top tier AR's and when I price them so that I can get those margins I get headaches and complaints. We found that our average per pair price is $300.00 give or take a few here and there, it's not difficult to go over this and we often do, but when we go over this amount if the lenses and options don't perform beyond the patients expectations then they come in upset. So we give all our patients the pros and the cons of the various coatings when they ask about Crizal I explain the benefits of a hydro coat on their AR and a hardcoat and primer and how the lenses perform the way that they do, in the end they get a hydro AR and they are happy, but for me to roll over and lay down and just give them a name brand product becasue they mentioned it doesn't do our bottom line justice. Same with transitions I get patients that want a photochromic FT in poly every now and again and I explain to them that we have a photochromic not a transitions and that transitions is the brand and a majority of the time they just want the one that changes.

I have more money to run our own promotions and print up our own ads and add value to our own coatings. I am interested in hearing about the value in a few degrees of improvement? Does anyone have a qay of quantifying that for a patient? How do we attacha dollar figure to that? I don't I use the many great coatings available that perform well and leave the super premium to other stores.

[Barry Santini]

Harry:

Here's what I do for a new AR presentation:

I tell them about the benefits (no need to restate these here), and then....

I tell them about the awful history of AR complaints (cleaning, "scratches", coming-off, etc.).

And then I tell them the truth: that its got soooo bad in the late 90's/early 2000's, that if we didn't replace 90+% of all the ARs we sold.......we didn't replace one!

And then I tell them that ONLY because the quality of AR got so bad, IMHO, is it as good as it is today.

With CZL w/SGP (as ELOA refers to it on Vision Web), I believe we have the absolute most advanced ophtahlmic lens treatment available. Easiest to clean, easiest to stay clean, scratch resistant (not proof...but they never retain that. But with the excellent ELOA warranty, you are insured and protected!), and looks great!

Only $169.00 (for just the AR, in my office). (Don't wince..and don't be afraid to ask a fair and reasonable cost for this excellent technology).

Barry

BTW, my lab-applied AR uasge is 50%

[Cherry Optical]

Hey Adam like I told you I would love to live in your shadow "Mr. Big Time Lab Guy" :D

Harry,

I'd love to have you come to Green Bay and shadow me. Feb 29th to March 1st would be great days for you to shadow. You could attend "What's New University" inside Lambeau Field, learn some new things, score some free drinks, and have a good time. Think about it.

I know I would have a different perspective of your approach and opinions of the optical industry if I shadowed you for a day and I also know you would have a different perspective of me and my opinions of the optical industry if you showed me for a day....

As it always seem to be with you; I'll open my wallet and finance my opinions/beliefs in how certain products will perform if you will set the 'trial criteria' and be willing to follow through with your patients. Additionally, if you want to come and shadow me on March 1st I'll pay for your airfare to Green Bay. This is another one I will not hold my breath on though. You seem to be really good at expressing your opinions but unwilling to challenge your own beliefs - even if it doesn't cost you a dime and could be beneficial to your business and your patients.

E-mail me for the registration materials at adamcherry@cherryopticalinc.com as they are in PDF and can not be uploaded on Optiboard.

Adam

[Cherry Optical]

Same with transitions I get patients that want a photochromic FT in poly every now and again and I explain to them that we have a photochromic not a transitions and that transitions is the brand and a majority of the time they just want the one that changes.

Do you know that you sound like the teacher from Charlie Brown to your patients when you say that? :D

Adam

Wahwaha wa wahh wa wha

[Cherry Optical]

But with the excellent ELOA warranty, you are insured and protected!), and looks great!

Essilor Lenses stands behind their product like no other lens manufacturer I have dealth with.

Additionally, I might argue that the Cherry Optical warranty is even more liberal than what you are currently receiving, Barry. Our warranty is to back up whatever decision you make between you and your patient. There is none better!

Adam

[Fezz]

Harry,

I'd love to have you come to Green Bay and shadow me. Feb 29th to March 1st would be great days for you to shadow. You could attend "What's New University" inside Lambeau Field, learn some new things, score some free drinks, and have a good time. Think about it.

I know I would have a different perspective of your approach and opinions of the optical industry if I shadowed you for a day and I also know you would have a different perspective of me and my opinions of the optical industry if you showed me for a day....

As it always seem to be with you; I'll open my wallet and finance my opinions/beliefs in how certain products will perform if you will set the 'trial criteria' and be willing to follow through with your patients. Additionally, if you want to come and shadow me on March 1st I'll pay for your airfare to Green Bay. This is another one I will not hold my breath on though. You seem to be really good at expressing your opinions but unwilling to challenge your own beliefs - even if it doesn't cost you a dime and could be beneficial to your business and your patients.

E-mail me for the registration materials at adamcherry@cherryopticalinc.com as they are in PDF and can not be uploaded on Optiboard.

Adam

Hey Harry,

I may need a another body to split the hotel and car rental with! Or, bettter put, someone to splash my gullet with ale with!!


:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

[HarryChiling]

Harry,

I'd love to have you come to Green Bay and shadow me. Feb 29th to March 1st would be great days for you to shadow. You could attend "What's New University" inside Lambeau Field, learn some new things, score some free drinks, and have a good time. Think about it.

I know I would have a different perspective of your approach and opinions of the optical industry if I shadowed you for a day and I also know you would have a different perspective of me and my opinions of the optical industry if you showed me for a day....

As it always seem to be with you; I'll open my wallet and finance my opinions/beliefs in how certain products will perform if you will set the 'trial criteria' and be willing to follow through with your patients. Additionally, if you want to come and shadow me on March 1st I'll pay for your airfare to Green Bay. This is another one I will not hold my breath on though. You seem to be really good at expressing your opinions but unwilling to challenge your own beliefs - even if it doesn't cost you a dime and could be beneficial to your business and your patients.

E-mail me for the registration materials at adamcherry@cherryopticalinc.com as they are in PDF and can not be uploaded on Optiboard.

Adam

Hey Adam, you couldn't afford to feed me drinks for more than 10 minutes. ;):D I just do it different and it works for me so I continue to do it that way. Our office sold nothing but premium product before I got here, that's why I am here, because it didn't work for this office so they needed a different perspective.

[HarryChiling]

Harry:

Here's what I do for a new AR presentation:

I tell them about the benefits (no need to restate these here), and then....

I tell them about the awful history of AR complaints (cleaning, "scratches", coming-off, etc.).

And then I tell them the truth: that its got soooo bad in the late 90's/early 2000's, that if we didn't replace 90+% of all the ARs we sold.......we didn't replace one!

And then I tell them that ONLY because the quality of AR got so bad, IMHO, is it as good as it is today.

With CZL w/SGP (as ELOA refers to it on Vision Web), I believe we have the absolute most advanced ophtahlmic lens treatment available. Easiest to clean, easiest to stay clean, scratch resistant (not proof...but they never retain that. But with the excellent ELOA warranty, you are insured and protected!), and looks great!

Only $169.00 (for just the AR, in my office). (Don't wince..and don't be afraid to ask a fair and reasonable cost for this excellent technology).

Barry

BTW, my lab-applied AR uasge is 50%

Barry I love that script, the most common objection sare addressed before they get asked, I will incorporate that with a few minor changes. Thanks.

[HarryChiling]

BTW don't stop by just offering the Coatings, here is the site so you can offer the best technology in lens cloths as well: http://www.clearviewfulfillment.com/

[optical24/7]

BTW don't stop by just offering the Coatings, here is the site so you can offer the best technology in lens cloths as well: http://www.clearviewfulfillment.com/

If you sold Crizal coating they will Give you, one of those cloths for Free! How's that for added value!!







Or, should I be charging for the cloth???

:D:D

:cheers:

[HarryChiling]

If you sold Crizal coating they will Give you, one of those cloths for Free! How's that for added value!!







Or, should I be charging for the cloth???

:D:D

:cheers:

$3.33 by my estimate, that's because they are micro fiber cloths the most advanced cleaning instrument know to the industry. The free ones in our office don't compare because they don't come with the scratchguard printed on them.

[HarryChiling]

Does anyone here even know the chemical component of Scotchguard? I will give you a hint it is the same chemical that is used in that black stuff that gets put on frying pans, here's another it's the same stuff being put in toothpaste. And the last big daddy hint of them all the same chemical used in almost all the hydro coatins available on the market today.

The only change in this coating is the process, price, and marketing. The process is worth it the later two I see as a benefit for our office, but we will gladly take those sales that leave other offices lookign for a better deal.

[optical24/7]

Does anyone here even know the chemical component of Scotchguard? I will give you a hint it is the same chemical that is used in that black stuff that gets put on frying pans, here's another it's the same stuff being put in toothpaste. And the last big daddy hint of them all the same chemical used in almost all the hydro coatins available on the market today.

The only change in this coating is the process, price, and marketing. The process is worth it the later two I see as a benefit for our office, but we will gladly take those sales that leave other offices lookign for a better deal.

I had no idea they used elephant snot in all those products!


:cheers:

[Cherry Optical]

it didn't work for this office.

I really shouldn't beat a dead horse..... BUT! How long have you been there and what was considered PREMIUM before you got there? Things in our industry have been changing (for the better IMHO) at a very rapid pace over the past 3 years.

At the first WNU in 2002 we had Zeiss speak on the Individual Free-Form design. At the time it was the only free-form design redly distributed in the US market. Fast forward to 2008 and every major (and a few minor) lens manufacturers are now using more advanced software and equipment to design and produce better PALs.

Call me 'new-school' but I believe I could find a lens design you would like more than some of the designs you may be currently promoting and I am more than confident the Crizal Avance with Scotchgard Protection vastly outperforms whatever coating you are currently promoting.

Anyway... Let me or Fezz know ASAP if you are interested in WNU so that we can make proper arrangements.

Adam

[Uncle Fester]

Harry- Ya gotta go! Inquirering minds from the Optiboard who respect your opinions need to know!

[icare]

I love Crizal and Alize'. We offer them nearly exclusively. I dislike the Scotchguard name and it's apparent auto sales connotation. It belongs at Lenscrafters. Scotchguard as a brand name seems to be directed at a less intelligent consumer. I like my patients to feel that they are smarter than common marketing ploys. Yes, we are operating in a niche. Perhaps we are segregating ourselves from a larger and more profitable market. Perhaps not.

We will continue to distance our practice from Lenscrafters in every way possible. Offering products that are difficult for consumers to differentiate is very risky marketing behavior for independents.

I also echo that the Scotchguard name does not sound as prestigious as the Crizal or Alize brands.

[bhess25]

ive always wondered when the days of wearing your stain resistant couch on your face would come...too bad it had to be these days!!

[HarryChiling]

"Other lenses smear, smudge and break down over time, losing their cleanability" said Carl Bracy, vice president of marketing for Essilor of America. "By combining this familiar and trusted brand with the number one prescribed anti-reflective lens in the United States, eye care professionals [ECPs] will be able to sell Crizal lenses with greater ease and success than ever before."

I am more than confident the Crizal Avance with Scotchgard Protection vastly outperforms whatever coating you are currently promoting.

It's not the performance that I don't like, it's the marketing and the cost. I like selling a good coating and then another pair, but if I sell a premium coating for a heafty price and get less profit, it makes it more difficult to sell a second pair.

Anyway... Let me or Fezz know ASAP if you are interested in WNU so that we can make proper arrangements.

I am already booked up with events this year with the OAA conference next week, VEE and I want to attend the ABO conference in OH. I appreciate the offer, but why not meet at VEE where I can meet many vendors includeing yourself.

I really shouldn't beat a dead horse..... BUT! How long have you been there and what was considered PREMIUM before you got there?

I have been here 1 1/2 years now and the coatings of choice were Crizal, Crizal Alize, and Teflon when I got here. The only progressives that were sold were Varilux products and Zeiss products. The opticians didn't even know there was anythign else available to offer and the reps never told them. Our clients are 80% MVC, when everyone here complaisn about Eyemed and there crappy reimbursements we make it work. When I go there they were selling premium AR's on lenses and charging the patient $35.00 as per their plan allowance. I don't have to tell you that we weren't making profit on this AR, matter of fact we were losing money every time we sold an AR, which hurt twice as bad because we were also sellign those premium progressive lenses for $100.00 as per their plan allowance. I have nothing against the performance of these product we just can't make money off of these products and any office that takes plentty of MVC plans knows not to give the house away. It's business and if you want to keep talking performance and believe it is that important put yourself in my shoes and sell me the new Crizal Avance for the same cost I am getting the Synergy and Triumph, it wouldn't make business sense for you so I wouldn't taunt you to do it and if you did I knwo what the outcoem would be higher priced lenses to make up for the difference. How abotu this, give me a few minutes and I will post an average MVC clients bill here and then we can disect and come up with what we would all offer this patient.

[HarryChiling]

Here is a job from yesterday, the patient has Eyemed and it's a disvcount plan:

Frame Retail: $239.95 (Rimless)
Lens Retail: $99.00 (SV)
Options: $90.00 (Poly), $90.00 (AR), $50.00 (Drill Fee)
Total Retail: $568.95

Now this is what it looks like with her insurance:

Frame: $155.97
Lens: $35.00
Poly: $30.00
AR: $35.00
Scr: $12.00
Drill: $40.00
Total: $307.97

Now for those that absolutely have to have crizal and all the other high end options what would you put this patinet in? The parameter for the lenses fall within stock ranges, and saying we don't take that plan is not an option.

[obxeyeguy]

Looks like a nice pair of AR lighten up sentinal to me.

[Jubilee]

My understanding is that if you use a "premium ar" that you should just take 20% off the usual and customary..

I can tell you LC ain't selling their premium poly scotchgard lenses for $100...
Can't remember is they break their premium poly into poly, and aspheric, or if they just call it a "premium" material and give only 20% off.

[Cherry Optical]

I can meet many vendors includeing yourself.

Great... Now I am just a 'vendor.' And to think I thought we were starting to hit it off....

F-5 = Snickers
F-7 = Doritos
F-10 = Wrigleys Spearmint

:D

Adam

[HarryChiling]

Great... Now I am just a 'vendor.' And to think I thought we were starting to hit it off....

F-5 = Snickers
F-7 = Doritos
F-10 = Wrigleys Spearmint

:D

Adam

Your more than just a vendor, you know what I meant. :cheers:

[C-10]

Here is a job from yesterday, the patient has Eyemed and it's a disvcount plan:

Frame Retail: $239.95 (Rimless)
Lens Retail: $99.00 (SV)
Options: $90.00 (Poly), $90.00 (AR), $50.00 (Drill Fee)
Total Retail: $568.95

Now this is what it looks like with her insurance:

Frame: $155.97
Lens: $35.00
Poly: $30.00
AR: $35.00
Scr: $12.00


Drill: $40.00
Total: $307.97

Now for those that absolutely have to have crizal and all the other high end options what would you put this patinet in? The parameter for the lenses fall within stock ranges, and saying we don't take that plan is not an option.

Being up here in Canada I do not understand this. Will the Ins co. only pay for this amount can you not charge the client over and above.

[ldgilman]

I really feel like essilor just stuck a sharp stick in my eye. As if independants do not have enough trouble with LC as it is, now essilor makes it look like we are just catching up with their technology and at a higher price. Support like that we just don't need. But what alternatives do we have, most of the quality independant labs have already been devoured by the beast?