Scotchguard/crizal/opinions

[harry888]

Am I the only one?

I view scotchguard as something of a rip off, two dollars worth of spray applied to furniture with a 100 dollar charge.

Now Essilor has licensed the name, and rumour is that this will be the name of the new crizal.

Am I the only one that views "scotchguard" as NOT a good value? And will have lots of trouble marketing that name?

Crizal is my A/R of choice. Love the the product. Has Essilor ever read consumer reports to see what they say about Scotchguard?

Harry

Teflon is just soooo much better.

Crizal is my A/R of choice, love it.

[MarcE]

Scotchguard is licensed by Lux and is marketed by Lenscrafters.
How does the Essilor license work?
Is Scotchguard the same as Alize or ClearGuard?

[AWTECH]

Scotchguard is licensed by Lux and is marketed by Lenscrafters.
How does the Essilor license work?
Is Scotchguard the same as Alize or ClearGuard?

I have not heard the details of the planned use of the Scotchguard license. It could be a non-exclusive or some agreement between Lux and Essilor on the use of the name.

So a lens coating is either derived from a spray designed to reduce staining of cloth items or a coating is derived from a product designed to have eggs not stick in the frying pan.

Maybe this industry is not really filled with marketing experts but mullets for licensing names.

The names in this industry are mostly licensed just look at frames.

[Chris Ryser]

Now Essilor has licensed the name, and rumour is that this will be the name of the new crizal.

Maybe this is just a rumor.................I have not seen any press release on the subject.

If Lux has a license on the brand name, why would Essilor become a copycat............and go to the effort of re-establishing another brand name for the same product they already have under the most popular name. :finger:

You guys and girls are automatically re-directing to Crizal if you think of an AR coating.

[cocoisland58]

I do not like liscensed brands. As I have said before Teflon is a frying pan and Scotchguard is a stain repellent. At least Crizal and Alize do not bring to mind household articles, which to be honest women do not find all that appealing. One would think that the marketeers would comprehend that unless...could it be that they are men?

[Jubilee]

Indeed Lenscrafters Premium AR is Scotchguard. When it was released the idea was that people were familiar with its tough repellent. When you spill something on your couch or carpet that has been treated, the liquid stays on the surface instead of getting down into the fibers. They promoted the fact that this AR was easy to clean (It came out about a year after Alize if I remember correctly.. late 04 early 05). They had demonstrators that consisted of a lens sitting on a tray, and you showed water and oil just beading up on the surface showing its hydrophobic and oleophobic properties..

In the past Lux has had agreements where they had exclusive use of a product for so many years, then they allow the company that developed the product mass market it.

However, since many believe that the Scotchguard coating was the same as Alize, I really have to wonder if Essilor would go this route.. To me it would be a step backward if they did..

[MarcE]

I agree w/ Chris, Coco and Jubilee

For Essilor to use the Scotchguard name is not in their best interest

Scotchguard is snake oil, in my opinion. If somone tried to sell it to me for $100 on my lenses - no way.

Teflon is my scratched up frying pan. WHy would I want that easy to scratch stuff on my glasses?

[Grubendol]

Our Essilor lab rep was in yesterday. It is indeed a new version of Crizal with a different angle of adherence. It is called Crizale Avance with Scotchguard.

I'm a little nervous about the branding aspect since Lenscrafters will still have their Scotchguard but it is a DIFFERENT Scotchguard process. How will we differentiate between the two for customers? "Yeah they have Scotchguard, but ours is better and that's why it costs $40 more" I mean really?

And the Teflon branding really irritated us when they said it would be for doctors offices only and then it started popping up in For Eyes ads.

[Johns]

I agree with Chris and the others as well.

We had a car with Scotch guarded seats...the kids still threw up on it!:hammer:

[AdmiralKnight]

They won't change the name. No way. How many people do you get coming in specifally asking for Crizal when they mean AR? It's as close to a household name as you can get when it comes to glasses, they're not going to throw that all away.

[Grubendol]

Has no one read my post? ;)

They HAVE changed the name, and they HAVE NOT at the same time. It is now Crizal Avance with Scotchguard. I saw the brochures and talked to the Rep about it yesterday.

[HarryChiling]

There was

Crizal - Ghetto folk came in asking for crystaaal name of a popular drink.
Crizal Alize - So they added the name of another popular ghetto drink to the mix

So I suggest the new version be called "Crizal Alize Especial", with a splash of lime, a twist, and light on the ice please. :bbg:

[Pete Hanlin]

There have been a lot of interesting comments posted on Essilor's name selection for our latest AR offering (which is officially named Crizal Avance with Scotchgard Protector).

Q:Why has Essilor chosen to partner with 3M in marketing a new AR under the Scotchgard Protector moniker?
A:The Crizal brand already has terrific name recognition- among those in the ophthalmic field. The performance of the product is well-established, and Crizal is easily the best selling AR on the market.

HOWEVER, the percentage of lenses sold in the US with AR is still an abysmally low 25% or so. Therefore, it makes sense to describe the properties of this product with a brand well-known to CONSUMERS.

Scotchgard Protector has over 93% name recognition among consumers. Consumers also demonstrate a very good grasp of what the Scotchgard Protector brand means- "protection, resistance to dirt, and easy to clean." Eye care practitioners constantly ask manufacturers to assist them in explaining products to patients- linking the Scotchgard Protector brand to Crizal is a response to that request.

Q: So, what is the performance difference of this new product?
A: Crizal Avance with Scotchgard Protector offers all the features of Crizal Alize with Clear Guard- with two primary advancements:
First, the hydrophobicity (water contact angle) has been improved from 113 degrees to 116 degrees. All this means is the lens does a better job of repelling water and oil (easier to clean).
Secondly, the durability of the hydrophobic property has been dramatically improved. Most AR lens offering a hydrophobic property "wear out" over time. That is, while the lens is very easy to clean when it comes from the laboratory, over time the hydrophobic layer wears off and the lens becomes harder to clean. Independent laboratory tests have shown the hydrophobic property of Crizal Avance with Scotchgard Protector will remain on the lens even after the lens has been cleaned 20,000 times (your local Essilor consultant can show you the test results). This product offers superior initial cleanability and far superior cleanability over time.

Q: Doesn't LensCrafters also offer an AR with the Scotchgard brand name?
A: Yes they do- but the product offers neither the improved hydrophobic performance nor the anti-particulate features of Crizal Avance with Scotchgard Protector. Additionally, the Crizal name will remain exclusively with private eye care practitioners. Eye care practitioners offer many products that share a brand used by retailers (Zeiss AR, Transitions, etc.). The new Crizal Avance with Scotchgard Protector product allows eye care practitioners to take advantage of an extremely well-known consumer brand in Scotchgard with a product superior to that which can be found at competitor locations. Additionally, competitor locations will not have the power of the Crizal brand.

The goal being to increase AR sales in the US (which is good for everyone- eye care practitioners, Essilor, and consumers who will be seeing better through lenses that are durable and easy to clean).

Some will choose to squabble and complain about the marketplace- others will take advantage of a superior product and consumer brand to increase their AR sales... For the former, Crizal, Crizal Alize, Crizal Sun, and Crizal Alize with Clear Guard will remain available.

Best regards,
Pete Hanlin, ABOM
Essilor of America

[For-Life]

Q: So, what is the performance difference of this new product?
A: Crizal Avance with Scotchgard Protector offers all the features of Crizal Alize with Clear Guard- with two primary advancements:
First, the hydrophobicity (water contact angle) has been improved from 113 degrees to 116 degrees. All this means is the lens does a better job of repelling water and oil (easier to clean).
Secondly, the durability of the hydrophobic property has been dramatically improved. Most AR lens offering a hydrophobic property "wear out" over time. That is, while the lens is very easy to clean when it comes from the laboratory, over time the hydrophobic layer wears off and the lens becomes harder to clean. Independent laboratory tests have shown the hydrophobic property of Crizal Avance with Scotchgard Protector will remain on the lens even after the lens has been cleaned 20,000 times (your local Essilor consultant can show you the test results). This product offers superior initial cleanability and far superior cleanability over time.

Well the name does not have me jumping up and down. I always liked how Essilor named a lot of its products. Alize, Crizal, Varilux, Ipseo ect. Much better than the competitors in the fact that it sounds high end versus something you have on the work bench. With that said, what is in a name.

The first benefit is no biggie. The second one can be good. I notice it with myself that the coating does not clean as well as when first purchased. I guess the main decision comes down to the price change. I see the value of this addition worth not much of an increase. If there is a $20 increase then it is not worth it at all.

[Pete Hanlin]

Actually, a 116 degree contact angle is a fairly big deal- especially considering the closest non-Crizal AR is at about 108.

I was pretty skeptical about how much difference a degree or two can make as well- but these lenses are noticeably easier to clean than anything I've seen (and we get test lenses on basically every kind of AR out there). With each degree of contact angle you improve by a percentage when it comes to cleanability. A 3 degree jump is significant.

As you noted, most lenses get harder to clean with time... Compare a Crizal Avance with Scotchgard Protector lens against a competitor a year after you dispense it, and the difference will be quite noticeable (we have an independent lab that runs tests which simulate cleaning, and the results were pretty dramatic).

Regarding the price, your consultant can give you the number, but the cost isn't much greater than Crizal Alize with Clear Guard.

At the end of the day, try out a pair and see what you think- that's the best proof.

[HarryChiling]

Thanks for the info Pete, I often rely on your info more than our area consultant. You seem to have more of it.

[treysdad]

Pete,

Although we all know that Lux uses all manufacturers products, they never, as far as I know, mention any brands that they do not own the license for. Including Transitions. In my humble opinion the Crizal brand was one tool for the independents that now seems to have lost some of its cache.

[bhess25]

increasing the AR sales in the US (that is said to be heading into a recession), is as easy as lowering the prices!!..a name is just another high price to throw at a patient, they know its expensive just by the name alone, and when ECP's pay so much for the product, so too do the consumers!!

I dont want, nor do i care about a name...you want AR sales to go up...lower the gargantuan prices that essilor is famouse for....and to be fair..the big name i work for just made a move to use all essilor surface lenses (so dont tell me i dont believe in the products..in all truth i realy do)...when its time for me to get a bifocal or another set of lenses..im going for bang for the buck...and essilor aint it!!

just my typical brutally honest cocky oppinion!

-Billy

[Chris Ryser]

..................increasing the AR sales in the US (that is said to be heading into a recession), is as easy as lowering the prices!!..a name is just another high price to throw at a patient,..............

......................just my typical brutally honest cocky oppinion!

I am wondering , that when only 20% of sales are with AR, a lot of Optiboarders are just about selling 90% of all jobs in AR.

As the economy looks gloomy and people are losing jobs by the galore, are they going to buy ARs with fancy names, or will the 20% take a drop?

[bhess25]

I am wondering , that when only 20% of sales are with AR, a lot of Optiboarders are just about selling 90% of all jobs in AR.

As the economy looks gloomy and people are losing jobs by the galore, are they going to buy ARs with fancy names, or will the 20% take a drop?

it will definately be something to watch out for...i know that when im forced to do retail i dont have any problems selling our brand of AR (from our specials lab), but then again the advertised price is only $37.00 with a warrenty...if the better coatings could get closer to this price range i think a huge increase in sales would be very likely.

[Jubilee]

There have been a lot of interesting comments posted on Essilor's name selection for our latest AR offering (which is officially named Crizal Avance with Scotchgard Protector).

Q: Doesn't LensCrafters also offer an AR with the Scotchgard brand name?
A: Yes they do- but the product offers neither the improved hydrophobic performance nor the anti-particulate features of Crizal Avance with Scotchgard Protector. Additionally, the Crizal name will remain exclusively with private eye care practitioners. Eye care practitioners offer many products that share a brand used by retailers (Zeiss AR, Transitions, etc.). The new Crizal Avance with Scotchgard Protector product allows eye care practitioners to take advantage of an extremely well-known consumer brand in Scotchgard with a product superior to that which can be found at competitor locations. Additionally, competitor locations will not have the power of the Crizal brand.

The goal being to increase AR sales in the US (which is good for everyone- eye care practitioners, Essilor, and consumers who will be seeing better through lenses that are durable and easy to clean).

Some will choose to squabble and complain about the marketplace- others will take advantage of a superior product and consumer brand to increase their AR sales... For the former, Crizal, Crizal Alize, Crizal Sun, and Crizal Alize with Clear Guard will remain available.

Best regards,
Pete Hanlin, ABOM
Essilor of America

LensCrafters spent a lot of money promoting their Scotchgard branded lenses. While the product maybe different, because of the countless tv, radio, and billboard ads...many consumers will associate the lens with LC. While this could be a "good thing" in as far as it might be easier for us independents to sell, same as the "featherwate" or "Maximum View Progressive"... the main difference here is that LC has had exclusitivity to the Scotchgard brand for several years. This makes it seem that instead of it being a "branded" issue with featherwate=poly, etc.. that instead the independents are being late to this show, and that LC was the innovator of the product. Thus elevating them in a way...Justfying their price and position.

I personally like to position us, the independents as being able to get the higher tech options and superior options than the chains. While this is the case, it certainly will force us to do a bit more explaining..

I suppose though if 3M helped in development though, that they would like some credit in the naming. I just have a hard time dealing with a name so close to the LC Branded product.

[Fezz]

Don't you all get it? This is the begining of the end!

Of course Essilor wants to be associated with Luxottica. It follows the natural progression of consolidation that both companies strive for. This is just one step closer to total domination.

Why else would they have the same branded product?


Wake up people!


(That concludes this weeks sermon on the coming Optical Doomsday)

[Chris Ryser]

Of course Essilor wants to be associated with Luxottica. It follows the natural progression of consolidation that both companies strive for. This is just one step closer to total domination.
Why else would they have the same branded product?


Wake up people!

Who will make the decision ??????????



Identity of Amount of Percent of Person or Group Shares

Owned ClassLeonardo Del Vecchio 314,803,339 (1) 69.97 %
Giorgio Armani 22,724,000 5.05 %
Directors and Executive Officers as a Group 322,910,443 (2) 71.77 %

http://sec.edgar-online.com/2005/06/.../Section13.asp

or


Major allies

• in 2007, over 8,000 employees will have paid into a Group investment plan.

• over 98% of French employees are Essilor shareholders.

In order to adapt to local specificities and legislations, a number
of different investment funds have been set up around the world:
Since 4 December 2006, Essilor has been on the Euronext
FAS IAS® index which measures the financial performance of
companies that have large-scale employee participation. Based
on the same methodology as the French CAC 40 index,
the Euronext FAS IAS® index aims to keep track in a comprehensive
manner of companies whose employees own significant share capital,
while offering investors and issuers the means to assess and compare
market performance to that of other quoted companies.

http://www.essilor.com/employee-shareholders

[Happylady]

Pete,

So will there now be 4 Crizal choices? Crizal, Crizal Alize, Crizal Alize with Clear Guard and now Crizal Advance with Scotchguard? Is something being discontinued?

How is it priced compared to the other Crizal products? I know you can't say actually, but just a general idea.

Also, can you get it on VSP jobs? I noticed that with Crizal with Clearguard I got charged extra for the Clearguard from the lab when I sold it on VSP jobs.

Is it out now?

Thanks for the information. :)

[bhess25]

"if" i decide to rip off...i mean sell a patient crizal advance..im not even mentioning the name..itll be crizal advance and thats it...they wont think its too pricy before they hear the price...but ill probably just stick with alize, its works great and nobody complains...it also doesnt cost the patient any insane amounts of hard earned money...i may have to explain what the term "hard earned money" means to essilor...jk..im sure every penny they have was hard earned..bwahahaha.