Scotchguard/crizal/opinions

[Pete Hanlin]

How is it priced compared to the other Crizal products?
We usually don't discuss wholesale pricing on an open forum such as this (on anyone's product). All I can say is- if I were still running a practice, I would probably charge the patient about $10 over Crizal Alize with Clear Guard. You can call your lab to get the actual wholesale price (as I recall, you aren't too far from Omega- just give customer service a call).

Also, can you get it on VSP jobs?
Although we're pursuing a code with VSP, the new product has not been assigned a code as of yet. You can sell Crizal Avance with Scotchgard Protector to VSP patients, however- ask your Essilor Consultant how.

As the economy looks gloomy and people are losing jobs by the galore, are they going to buy ARs with fancy names, or will the 20% take a drop?
AR sales (at least sales of Crizal) are unlikely to drop- IMO- for this reason... Over 95% of people who order a Crizal product once will order it on all subsequent eyewear they purchase. Patients aren't failing to purchase AR because it is too expensive ($100 or so to have a lens that is more durable, easier to clean, and helps you see better for 2 years is a bargain when I note that my son spends more than that on a pair of sneakers I'll replace in 6 months). Patients fail to purchase AR because eye care practitioners fail to present it as an option.

As for why OptiBoarders seem to sell AR at a 90% clip... I've noticed that practices are either "on-board" with AR or they're not. So, there probably are numerous practices providing AR to 90% of their patients- and there are a whole lot who only provide it to the 10% or so of their patients who take the initiative to actually ask for AR.

As for Essilor buying Luxottica- I really want to thank you for each time you post that kind of fantasia-speak (any time I need a pick-me-up chuckle, I run a search for "Luxottica" and "Essilor" on OptiBoard).
:)
Furthermore, it is saddening- but not surprising- that you didn't feel the creation of the Essilor Vision Foundation (http://www.essilorvisionfoundation.org/) was worthy of mention. Since you are so interested in how Essilor invests its money, it might interest you to know we're also investing in the American community as well.

[AWTECH]

Pete:

For your information, I will for one say, although I do not purchase any products from Essilor, (we make our own product lines which indirectly compete with some Essilor products), I admire the way Essilor operates there business. Yes, they make money, (thats not a bad thing), they do so by providing value to their customers.

The way Essilor learned to acquire labs works for all parties except possibly their direct competitors.

I think many posts on this board that are negative toward Essilor do not consider how good the company is at what they do. (Probably some envey from a few also).

I have yet to see a negative post about Essilor that I can see the negative other than the size and scope of Essilor. Some act like Essilor does not have competition. In fact they have competition from all others, and do a very very good job of managing to remain competitive.

[Fezz]

One of my labs just notified us that they will automatically be upgrading all Crizal Alize and Crizal Alize w/Clearguard to the new Crizal Avance(w/Scotchgard) at NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE!

How great is that?

Well....maybe not so great if they were overcharging in the first place!

Hmmm?

[For-Life]

One of my labs just notified us that they will automatically be upgrading all Crizal Alize and Crizal Alize w/Clearguard to the new Crizal Avance(w/Scotchgard) at NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE!

How great is that?

Well....maybe not so great if they were overcharging in the first place!

Hmmm?

you're one of those guys that looks a gift horse in the mouth

[Pete Hanlin]

Pete:
For your information, I will for one say, although I do not purchase any products from Essilor, (we make our own product lines which indirectly compete with some Essilor products), I admire the way Essilor operates their business. Yes, they make money, (thats not a bad thing), they do so by providing value to their customers.

AWTECH,
I appreciate your comments. Prior to my employment with Essilor (it doesn't seem possible I've been here 5 1/2 years already), I used to scan over the negative Luxottica posts and wonder why a company that made quality frames at a decent price would garner so much acrimony just because they had moved into the retail sector. I carried Luxottica frames right up to the day I left private practice, and they always performed well for me.

Now I read some of the posts that discuss Essilor and wish some of these folks could spend a year working within the company they seem to so despise.

Essilor, eye care practitioners, and even independently owned laboratories have had a long-standing win-win-win relationship. Anyone who doubts this should sit down and talk with Mike Daley (President of Essilor's lens group), or any number of our veteren Essilor consultants. They can tell you about the days when there was no progressive lens market- about days and nights they spent training practitioners how to fit these lenses. Talk with Dave Cuffe (director of technical support to independent labs) about the trips his team has made to help laboratories with processing challenges. Even today, his team is available to completely re-engineer an independent laboratory to make it more efficient and AR ready.

I don't mean to be defensive- I don't bother trying to defend Essilor very often these days (because the people who don't like Essilor often have their own agendas). Also, I can personally attest to the fact that companies like Sola, Pearle, and yes- LensCrafters- have worked to build this market as well (my first months in the industry I learned a TON from bootlegged Pearle training manuals, and I've learned a lot from Sola's employees and literature over the years as well).

So, for all the "little guys" out there that want to throw stones at large manufacturers- that's fine, I get the fact that you want your piece of the pie, too. However, at least have the decency to recognize the contributions companies like Essilor, Sola, Transitions, Pearle, LensCrafters, etc. have made to the US market. Chances are there wouldn't be a US progressive market to have a piece of if not for the efforts of Essilor, AO, and Sola.

Finally (then I'll be done for a while ;^), it absolutely AMAZES me how anyone could have a negative view of an AR product that: 1.) provides better scratch resistance than a NON-AR lens, 2.) is easier to clean than any lens in the history of ophthalmics, 3.) will- without dispute- provide your patients with greater visual comfort, 4.) will be marketed to your consumers in a way that HELPS you sell them the product, and 5.) apparently may not even cost any more than the previous version at some labs! If for some unfathomnable reason you just can't get over the fact that someone else also may sell a product with the same name, you're free to call it whatever the heck you want.

[Uncle Fester]

Pete- Is it pronounced Avance as in rhymes with Beyounce?

Can't help myself--

How about Crizal Avance Digitally Enhanced High Definition Anti Reflection? Then the patient can just ask for us to CA-DEH-DAR dem thar lenses:p

[HarryChiling]

Finally (then I'll be done for a while ;^), it absolutely AMAZES me how anyone could have a negative view of an AR product that: 1.) provides better scratch resistance than a NON-AR lens, 2.) is easier to clean than any lens in the history of ophthalmics, 3.) will- without dispute- provide your patients with greater visual comfort, 4.) will be marketed to your consumers in a way that HELPS you sell them the product, and 5.) apparently may not even cost any more than the previous version at some labs! If for some unfathomnable reason you just can't get over the fact that someone else also may sell a product with the same name, you're free to call it whatever the heck you want.

Pete,

Essilor has too many AR products on the market right now which is why they get such flack.

Reflection Free
Crizal
Crizal Alize
Crizal Alize Clear Guard
Crizal Alize Advance
......
......
......

I hated it a while back, but I remember everytime I looked at this site everyone was sayign how the crizal coatings are the best, then they would tweak it and it would all of a sudden be a new product. Our office uses the Good, Better, Best approach to pricing and catergorizing products and it seems that Essilor has a Good, Gooder, Better, Betterer, Best and Bester. :hammer: It would have made more sense in my opinion to discontinue a product here IMO, but hey I have not built a billion dollar company so what do I know.

[drive by pot shot]
I still think Essilor should contribute more to opticians than they do to optometrists. :p
[/drive by pot shot]

[HarryChiling]

http://www.essilorvisionfoundation.org/ - ? Pete there is no information on how this is helping the american community? Also it asks for donations so it looks like others helping Essilor to help the community? The press release didn't show up when I tried to look at it, if you have more informtion I would really be interested in reading up on this.

[Fezz]

Pete,

Essilor has too many AR products on the market right now which is why they get such flack.

Reflection Free
Crizal
Crizal Alize
Crizal Alize Clear Guard
Crizal Alize Advance
......
......
......

I hated it a while back, but I remember everytime I looked at this site everyone was sayign how the crizal coatings are the best, then they would tweak it and it would all of a sudden be a new product. Our office uses the Good, Better, Best approach to pricing and catergorizing products and it seems that Essilor has a Good, Gooder, Better, Betterer, Best and Bester. :hammer: It would have made more sense in my opinion to discontinue a product here IMO, but hey I have not built a billion dollar company so what do I know.

[drive by pot shot]
I still think Essilor should contribute more to opticians than they do to optometrists. :p
[/drive by pot shot]

Great point Harry.

But, thats only the tip of the iceberg. Lets not forget all of the other names for Essilors/Varilux's *generic* ar coatings that their labs produce, the stock lens houses they own, etc. Some names like Triumph, Synergy, Ultra Glare Free with Centurion TC, Komodoo come to mind.

[Jubilee]

Well I hope I am not being lumped into the "haters" here..

I pm'd you last year about this time with issues I had and unfortunately I still haven't found my faith with Essilor yet again.

For me, the concerns are many fold. While I appreciate the strides that Essilor, Sola, Zeiss, Lux, and many other optical companies have made (and I believe I mentioned in passing the marketing value) I also have concerns about a possible monopolistic market developing.

As an independent, it is a struggle to fight against the marketing dollars of the larger chains. Chains that also make the majority of their money selling your (Essilor) products. I can't buy my Accolade's, ovations, and probably not even my VARILUX branded products for as low as Lenscrafters, Costco, Walmart, or even the local chains can. So I can't compete by buying the same product...

Yeah I can price it cheaper, but then I make less money per transaction than the chain..or in the case of Costco, they can sell it for as much as I can buy it for!

While I like to think our service is beyond that of any chain, the sad state of affairs is that for a lot of patients, that just isn't enough. They are on a budget and price is king. That and being a preferred provider for their insurance who happens to own most of my competition and proudly displays their locations on paper work sent to the patients..

The easiest way for me to compete is by using different products. I still use some of the Essilor products in certain situations. However, I want my office to be as far from the chain mentality as possible. Yes the big companies have successful models, but that isnt' the only way to operate and not everyone is out to get rich.

I like working with independents cause while Essilor makes great products, I don't think they are _the_ only product or the best product all the time. I like the idea of unbiased opinion.. I also like what my labs did that were different than the current business model you have. Frame/lens packages, tiered option packages, and the like helped me maximize my dollars given my limited environment (No edger in house, etc) Yet, already they tried to get a rep to come and take the sample product away.

So forgive me if I am not all that excited right now...

[HarryChiling]

Great point Harry.

But, thats only the tip of the iceberg. Lets not forget all of the other names for Essilors/Varilux's *generic* ar coatings that their labs produce, the stock lens houses they own, etc. Some names like Triumph, Synergy, Ultra Glare Free with Centurion TC, Komodoo come to mind.

Good points Fezz, I use triumph and I also use many of the Essilor products that aren't mainstream like shore lenses and such. I personally don't offer many name brand products. Now our house lens of choice is the Naural, but that's because I get them at ridiculous prices, if they wen up I would drop them in a heart beat. Lots of great products out there in todays market. I actually talked to my essilor rep about them selling products to many of the chains and they told me that this was their way to keep production hgh and therefore the costs for independents low. I work in a franchised Pearle and find that we don't get the Varilux products from our in house labs at any discount, matter of fact chances are we would pay probably 3 times what an independent would pay for a varilux product from our lab.

I don't like the fact that I can't get Varilux blanks to surface. I think that simple thing alone has lead me to change many from varilux to many other progressives. I can get every other lens blank offered, but the varilux I can't get which means higher costs to me so I won't offer them.

A great independent company I think is shamir, they have a bunch of great designs and I think they are becomeing more mainstream today then they were in the past.

Younger has a great progressive which is available in almost every flavor unde he sun. I like that they made a great design and insteda of making 100 more they spent their resources offering that lens in every flavor under the sun, I think that was truy a great move and makes it easier for an optician to fit the lens and offer various options without having to switch designs.

I have been liking the Trinity by Augen Optics, great lenses available in trivex and as a sunsensor.

In coatings, ICoat offers stainless with a contact angle greate than 112^o. Opticote offers the tzAvoRite which is a great AR and their mirrors are hands down the best in the industry I dare anyone to say otherwise. Hoya has the Super Hivision which is a great coating that holds up well. Nikon Ice is another flavor of coating I believe now incorporated by Essilor.

AR's have not changed much, they are a series f layers of oxides, floridue and silica the process keeps changeing adn the methods used to apply or get them to adhere to the lens, so whena lab changes it's process if they want to market it every 6-9 montsh that's fine for them, bt it bloats the cost to me and I will not pass tht on to a consumer just beacuse. Now if Essilor were to come out with soehting truly innovative then I m all ears, but if they just added a few more layers to the stack, or refined their porcess a bit more, I don't care and will not purchase or sell it.

[partyoptician]

As a former Lencrafters GM. I just thought you guys should know that the Scotchgard product is Essilor. The finished lenses are theirs and the surfaced lenses are sent to their Joe's Creek lab in Fl. I don;t think I can believe that the coatings are different when they're coming from the same facility. You be the judge.

[Pete Hanlin]

Pete- Is it pronounced Avance as in rhymes with Beyounce?
"Avance" is indeed pronounced like "Beyonce" (and likewise, it is an "Upgrade"). :)

Essilor has too many AR products on the market right now which is why they get such flack.
Try and discontinue a product and you get "flak" from customers who still order the old product. If you think there are too many products, just use one or two of them- problem solved.

But, thats only the tip of the iceberg. Lets not forget all of the other names for Essilors/Varilux's *generic* ar coatings that their labs produce, the stock lens houses they own, etc. Some names like Triumph, Synergy, Ultra Glare Free with Centurion TC, Komodoo come to mind.
You missed a bunch... Yep, that's because labs- like practitioners- like to offer products with unique names as well.

AR's have not changed much, they are a series f layers of oxides, floridue and silica the process keeps changeing adn the methods used to apply or get them to adhere to the lens, so whena lab changes it's process if they want to market it every 6-9 montsh that's fine for them, bt it bloats the cost to me and I will not pass tht on to a consumer just beacuse.
The actual AR stack has not changed very much. The hardcoat technologies that make AR durable and the hydrophobic technologies that make them cleanable have changed dramatically over the past 10 years. There are one or two other really high quality AR coatings out there (i.e., durable and cleanable), from the tests I've seen, Crizal products are the best- but what else would you expect me to say? If you're selling a product with a dip-coated, thermally cured hardcoat, the lens should be very durable. However, I know of only 2 or 3 ARs other than Crizal products that feature that kind of hard coat (and on 2 of them, the dip coat is applied over a factory applied coating, which lessens performance).

While I like to think our service is beyond that of any chain, the sad state of affairs is that for a lot of patients, that just isn't enough. They are on a budget and price is king.
I used to sit in the office and tell myself patients were walking with Rxs because of price. Then I noticed these same patients were wearing designer jeans, Nike sneakers, talking on PDA cell phones, and driving pretty nice automobiles and it dawned on me that people WILL spend money on things when a perception of value is built. Heck, about 22% of cell phone users own 2 or more cell phones (that's about the same % of eyeglass wearers who own more than one pair of Rx glasses). Brands are one of the primary drivers of value perception- Varilux is one of the brands I used to build value (patients had good experiences with their lenses, knew they were Varilux lenses, and knew the place where they could get more Varilux lenses was my office). You can build value with any brand- so if you have another brand you like, and it works for you, then utilize it for all its worth!

So forgive me if I am not all that excited right now...
Nothing to forgive- and, btw, I had hoped the service issues you experienced earlier had been resolved. Disappointed to hear they have not been.

http://www.essilorvisionfoundation.org/ - ? Pete there is no information on how this is helping the american community? Also it asks for donations so it looks like others helping Essilor to help the community?
The foundation was just kicked off a couple weeks ago at our National Sales Meeting. If you are interested, I'll be happy to post more information as soon as I have it. Many of our employees have already donated time and product to the Special Olympics, and Essilor kicked off the foundation with a sizeable donation.

I'm not suggesting Essilor is perfect- or that everyone should use solely Essilor products. However, the opinion that has been expressed that Essilor is some evil corporation bent on world domination is simply erroneous and- quite frankly- insulting to the dedicated employees and management of that company.

Here is the press release:

ESSILOR VISION FOUNDATION targets children’s vision problems

New Foundation designed to help people attain better lives through better sight

NEW YORK – January 7, 2008 – Essilor of America, Inc. announces the creation of the Essilor Vision Foundation, a public, non-profit foundation based in Dallas, Texas. The new foundation will strive to help people achieve better lives through better sight by creating and supporting activities that advance good vision and its benefits, and offering special help to those who need it most.
“Essilor International sees this U.S.-based foundation as a step in furthering its worldwide activities as a socially responsible company,” said Hubert Sagnieres, president, North America and Europe Regions. “By combining the dedication of our employees, our comprehensive network of labs and our strong relationships with eyecare professionals nationwide, we plan to work side-by-side with the foundation to improve access to vision care.”
The new foundation will concentrate its initial efforts on U.S. school children. Its first program focuses on educating parents about the need for annual eye exams for children through a partnership with schools in Tarrant County, Texas. The foundation also plans to work closely with other non-profit organizations such as Lions Clubs International, to find ways to help families pay for eye exams and receive eyeglasses that they might not otherwise be able to afford.
“Studies show that one in four children in the United States have a vision problem that their parents aren’t aware of,” said Audrey Reed, executive director. “It affects their reading, learning and behavior in the classroom. Research suggests the percentage of inner-city children with uncorrected vision problems is as high as 50 percent. We are developing programs to address these issues so all children, regardless of their ethnic background or financial status, have an equal chance to learn and become productive members of society.”

Also, for anyone interested in the life of Sargent Shriver (activist in the 60s who was instrumental in starting the Peace Corps and several other social inventions), there is a documentary on his life airing on PBS on Martin Luther King Day at 10pm EDT that was sponsored by Essilor.

[bhess25]

I have been liking the Trinity by Augen Optics, great lenses available in trivex and as a sunsensor.

Thats a great lens...we use it at the big name...but they have set basecurves that you have to follow no-matter what...they also have aspheric and double aspheric sv blanks..the double aspheric is pretty cool stuff..flatter and clearer.

IMHO it might be expensive but its well worth it...put them in a drill mount and no cracking!!!..trivex is the new 167 for drills!!

[partyoptician]

Different or the same? Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm! By the way Pete, are you saying Essilor is not providing LC with their Scotchgard AR? As far as retail designer names-- most people do not view glasses the same as other designer retail items. Why? Because people will spend as much as they can on things they want and as little as they can for things they need. And while I agree that creating need/want is the most important point of "selling"---most people simply don't want glasses-- they just need them.

[Pete Hanlin]

Different or the same? Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm! By the way Pete, most people do not view glasses the same as other designer retail items. Why? Because people will spend as much as they can on things they want and as little as they can for things they need. And while I agree that creating need/want is the most important point of "selling"---most people simply don't want glasses-- they just need them.
PartyOptician,
I've PM'd you regarding the differences between the products.

Regarding want vs. need items... I would consider the tires on my car a need item- yet I pay $80 more per tire for Michelins (because they ride quieter and I perceive they're better). I would consider gasoline a need item, yet I pay $0.08 more per gallon to buy gas at Chevron because I believe (rightly or wrongly) that its better for my car. Likewise, although I know the frosty flakes in the black and white generic box are probably the same as those sporting Tony the Tiger, I go with Tony because I have confidence in past experience with that brand. The list goes on and on- from bottled water, to dental floss, to all sorts of things that are "necessities." I don't care what you are selling- if your consumers are basing a decision solely on price, that is an indication you are failing to differentiate on their perception of quality, service, level of need, or convenience.

Now, with AR... the reason we have so much perceived price resistance is because no one NEEDS it (because most consumers have never tried the product). Oddly enough, when I speak to a group of ophthalmic retailers I notice the AR penetration in the room is close to 100% (nearly ALL opticians and optometrists who wear glasses have AR). Yet only about 24% of US consumers order AR on their lenses... Maybe that's because opticians and optometrists have tried AR and recognize the benefits- while most consumers have not.

Want an example from outside our industry? No one NEEDED ATM machines in the late 80's. When the banks introduced them, they had trouble getting people to use them- even though the service was free. Today, millions of people pay $2.00 or more to access $20 from a mall ATM- because of a perceived need (well, actually because of stupidity and lack of planning, but that's another story).

I've been in too many offices where opticians and optometrists understand how to create value- and have no trouble recommending and providing their patients with premium products- to believe that the American eyewear consumer is incapable of perceiving the value of superior eyewear. Considering the "consumption driven" consumers that drive the US market, you can't convince me that Japanese, French, German, British, and Canadian consumers are the only people capable of desiring better eyewear (Canada- which I would consider a market similar to our own, has an AR penetration of over 40%, btw).

[LENNY]

This is why Essilor still sells Comforts!
We are used to them!

[bhess25]

whats the price difference for AR in these other countries compaired to the US..anyone know?

[Cherry Optical]

I don't know if anyone has stolen my idea but I wondered if they call it Crizal Advanced in France?:D

I don't know what there is about Crizal Avance that someone wouldn't like. No one said you have to like the name or ever even say it. Sell it and enjoy the outstanding performance.

I strongly encourage those of you with low to low-moderate Rxs to try the Essilor Definity or Definity Short in TRIVEX with Crizal Avance. A great go-to lens.

If anyone is interested in trying a pair? PM me.

Adam

[Cherry Optical]

I don't like the fact that I can't get Varilux blanks to surface. I think that simple thing alone has lead me to change many from varilux to many other progressives. I can get every other lens blank offered, but the varilux I can't get which means higher costs to me so I won't offer them.

Cough::bullcrap::Cough

First of all, you could buy them if you really wanted to. I don't know a great deal about you but I knew right away that Varilux lenses (semi finished, uncut, or edged and mounted) are WAY too expensive for Harry. Next thing you know I'll be reading posts by Harry about selling 1.74 Varilux Ipseos w/ Crizal Avance with Scotchgard Protection.

I won't hold my breath but I know it would make you feel good to sell one of those every other month or so.

Adam

[For-Life]

I don't know if anyone has stolen my idea but I wondered if they call it Crizal Advanced in France?:D

I don't know what there is about Crizal Avance that someone wouldn't like. No one said you have to like the name or ever even say it. Sell it and enjoy the outstanding performance.

I strongly encourage those of you with low to low-moderate Rxs to try the Essilor Definity or Definity Short in TRIVEX with Crizal Avance. A great go-to lens.

If anyone is interested in trying a pair? PM me.

Adam

The problem is clear here. Essilor is coming out with potentially another great product, and that just burns people.

I remember when Alize came out. They all flipped out over it. Then some started to try it and could not say anything bad. There were a few non-Essilor buyers who still thought it was bs. I remember several saying that the Zeiss Carat has been hydrophobic for years. Well so has Crizal. They did not understand that we were not just talking about a simple hydrophobic lens here. Now, these oliphobic lenses are all we can talk about. Shame for Essilor for trying to better the market with their own.

Next came the Clear Guard. People yelling and screaming that Teflon is anti-static. They did not care that it was a free add on. They just wanted to complain that Essilor was bettering their product.

Look at the thread about the Comfort 360. One of the very top selling PALs in the World, and they criticized Essilor for trying to make it better. It is not like the company said that it will be replacing the Physio or Ipseo. Essilor realized that many practitioners keep their patients in the exact same lens, and the company capitalized on it. People then accused Essilor of making all of their future lenses digital, like it is a bad thing.

Sometimes, I think people are just jealous of others making money.

[Jubilee]

Well of course Pete, you got my attention with the foundation. I was trying to read about it on my computer here, but everytime I accessed the website at home, my browser crashed. Might be that darn Norton 360...

Anyway.. I am pleased to see that they plan on working closely with other vision care based charities. I was curious as to why the foundation wanted to set up in its own right, compared to giving a boost to one of the existing organizations such as the Lion's Club or Prevent Blindness? It is my personal opinion that the "optical based charities" are so fragmented and competing for every donation of resources, including dollars, that we have several services being duplicated and others being completely ignored.

So is Essilor going to focus on children's vision only, or are they going to help with adult vision needs as well? Any interest in backing a wholesale lab designed to service all the vision based charities to provide a more economical and cost effective pair of glasses? ;)


Cassandra

[Pete Hanlin]

My understanding is the foundation will be working alongside a number of charities (I think one of the early mentions did refer to Lion's Club- and the hope that we can provide new frames, instead of used ones, to those who need eyewear and cannot afford them). Again, its all just coming on line...

If you have a lab that works towards providing eyewear to those in need, please email or PM me, and I will put you in touch with the newly named director of the foundation- Audrey Reed. This is an Essilor employee who has spent a ton of time "in the trenches" helping people in need, and it was really great to see Essilor putting her in charge of this foundation (rather than bringing in some exec from outside).

Pete

[HarryChiling]

Cough::bullcrap::Cough

First of all, you could buy them if you really wanted to. I don't know a great deal about you but I knew right away that Varilux lenses (semi finished, uncut, or edged and mounted) are WAY too expensive for Harry. Next thing you know I'll be reading posts by Harry about selling 1.74 Varilux Ipseos w/ Crizal Avance with Scotchgard Protection.

I won't hold my breath but I know it would make you feel good to sell one of those every other month or so.

Adam

It's not that I can't get them, it's why should I get them when the performance in my office is no better than lenses I get at more than half the cost and with better terms. If I am to build value in a brand and utilize my strengths in this business I can't just order the next dummy proof lens, I have to do the research and fidn a top quality lens that performs well and meets my businesses needs.

By the way I strip more Crizal than I sell, and guess what I turn them into sunglasses and a majority of the patients go and tell their friends and I get more people that want me to strip and tint their lenses. That's adding value, an AR that consitently has been improved by a miniscule measure and marked up every time has no value to me, sure it's an easy sell, the essilor rep will provide me with all kinds of literature and cool little gadgets that show how static resistent lenses are and the various ads in the magazines. If you came to my office you would find those items are of no value to me personally.

Either way I offer a hydro coated AR, I offer a base AR and I offer a hydro oleo AR. Doesn't make a difference to me who makes it as long as the risidual color is green (so I can replace you if you start jacking the price on me without cosmetic consequences, sorry that's just business), and the quality is good.

I would love to work with Essilor's AR's and their lenses, but they are too expensive even the lower end product is generally more expensive, and they directly market to consumers which is a no no in my book because it undermines my professional judgement.

Hey Adam like I told you I would love to live in your shadow "Mr. Big Time Lab Guy" :D

[Barry Santini]

Harry:

I want to offer you another viewpoint:

Your approach appears to be founded upon the premises that:
1. Your client's would not purchase eyewear unless they "needed" to.
2. Because they do not want or desire eyewear, this, then, is a purchase that you assume they want to spend as little money on as possible.
3. Therefore, you act as their guradian of value.

I might suggest that you could be selling your clients short. On another point, I suggest that by offering a multi-choice, multierd-tier AR offering, is contributing to client confusion in a way you are not in tuned with. Further, in many cases, this multi-decision eyewear-choice presentation is *not*, IMHO, what people really want from their trusted vision professional.

In my practice, I *only* offer the absolute, top-of-the-line lab-applied ARs. For orders using finished lenses, 90% of what I select is also top-of-the-line. Only when I am in a budget-package presentation do I drop down to a lower-priced AR. And at those times, the client doesn't even know that I've made the choice I have.

I try to keep it as simple as possible. And I agree with you that the most "sophisticated" progressives are not always my first choice for all clients. But I normally do not offer a menu of progressive choices from which they are to choose. I simply (pre) select the best for them. I feel this is why they want my service to begin with.

If cost becomes (or continues) to remain an important issue, they will not doubt try Costco or the like.

My feeling is: If they are happy/satisfied there, then they have found their ideal eyewear home. If not, I stand ready to deliver the same top-quality, premium dispensing experience and advice I always have.

That's why *I* am. And I think that's who *you* are too. You just may not be aware of some of your subconcious assumtions about your clients.

Maybe...or maybe not.

Respectfully, FWIW

Barry