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Thread: Which is the best AR? Zeiss Carat Advantage, Crizal Alize with Clear Guard, Teflon?

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    Which is the best AR? Zeiss Carat Advantage, Crizal Alize with Clear Guard, Teflon?

    What are the differences with the Teflon, Zeiss Carat Advantage, and Crizal Alize with Clear Guard? I know Teflon have a blue ar coating and crizal comes with green what about zeiss? And is the Crizal Alize Clear Guard only used for progressives or can it be serviced for SV also? Any opticians or optometrists experience with any of these coatings? Thanks.

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    Allen Weatherby
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    Try the search feature

    This subject has been discussed many times. You might find your answers in previous threads. See the green bar above these posts, there is search feature. Mouse over the search feature and then enter the name of the AR and all related links will appear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AWTECH View Post
    This subject has been discussed many times. You might find your answers in previous threads. See the green bar above these posts, there is search feature. Mouse over the search feature and then enter the name of the AR and all related links will appear.
    I don't see a green bar... can you be more specific in location?

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    Allen Weatherby
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmorse View Post
    I don't see a green bar... can you be more specific in location?
    OptiBoard Discussion Forums
    User CPBlogsFAQMembers ListCalendarArcadeNew Posts Search Quick Links Log Out

    SEE EXAMPLE ABOVE I think if you mouse over the search you will beable to make the search

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    bilateral peripheral scotoma LandLord's Avatar
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    I wear Carat and Teflon and I like them both, but the Carat a little better.

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    I wear Alize. Best coating I have ever used. The clear guard comes on all surfaced lenses, but does not come with stock lenses.

    I have used Teflon, and some posters have said it does not stand up to the quality of Alize. I have not used Carat Advantage, but have only heard good things. Carat Advantage is available in a blue, green, and gold colour.

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    Underemployed Genius Jacqui's Avatar
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    Ask any two opticians and you will get three opinions.

    I like any AR that is not made by the Evil Empire.

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    Optician Extraordinaire
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    Crizal and Teflon can only be put on certain lenses. Carat can go on almost anything. I use Crizal or Crizal Alize if it is available, if not I use Carat or Carat Advantage.

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    Master OptiBoarder optigrrl's Avatar
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    On the Bayer (sp?) abrasion scale Hoya's Super Hi Vision comes in at over 10

    Crizal Alize w/ Clear guard is second, I believe at around 6 and the others mentioned are lower. Glass is 12.

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    Allen Weatherby
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    Bayer testing

    Quote Originally Posted by optigrrl View Post
    On the Bayer (sp?) abrasion scale Hoya's Super Hi Vision comes in at over 10

    Crizal Alize w/ Clear guard is second, I believe at around 6 and the others mentioned are lower. Glass is 12.
    I saw a bayer number listed for a product: listed as 16, when I discussed this with a person who actually works with bayer testing equipment everyday, he laughed and explained what is now happening is that the bayer test results are not as representative of abrasion resistance when the resistance is lowered by the new hydrophobics.

    Remember: Numbers don't lie, but a marketing department and spin, thats another world.

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    bayer?

    Quote Originally Posted by optigrrl View Post
    On the Bayer (sp?) abrasion scale Hoya's Super Hi Vision comes in at over 10

    Crizal Alize w/ Clear guard is second, I believe at around 6 and the others mentioned are lower. Glass is 12.
    whats the bayer scale ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AWTECH View Post
    I saw a bayer number listed for a product: listed as 16, when I discussed this with a person who actually works with bayer testing equipment everyday, he laughed and explained what is now happening is that the bayer test results are not as representative of abrasion resistance when the resistance is lowered by the new hydrophobics.

    Remember: Numbers don't lie, but a marketing department and spin, thats another world.
    Is it really marketing hype or is it true? If the coating is slippery then less will stick to it, less will rub against it, and thus less scratches will be made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by For-Life View Post
    Is it really marketing hype or is it true? If the coating is slippery then less will stick to it, less will rub against it, and thus less scratches will be made.
    That is how it was explained to me also. If you take a scotch-brite pad and scrub the face of the AR the super-slick coated lens will not scratch less than a non slick-coat lens. However, in actual use (which the bayer test is designed to emulate), the slick coat allows less stuff to stick. Which results in less cleaning and less rubbing of dirt into the coating = less scratches.

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    Allen Weatherby
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    How to measure hard coatings and hydrophobics

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcE View Post
    That is how it was explained to me also. If you take a scotch-brite pad and scrub the face of the AR the super-slick coated lens will not scratch less than a non slick-coat lens. However, in actual use (which the bayer test is designed to emulate), the slick coat allows less stuff to stick. Which results in less cleaning and less rubbing of dirt into the coating = less scratches.
    Scratch resistance due to AR or hard coating toughness can be masked by a hydrophobic. As with any testing you have to compare apples to apples and when comparing lenses, it is easy to compare a rating of one lens with hydrophobic with a contact angle of 8 degrees to lens with a softer hard coating but a hydrophobic with a contact angle of 18 degrees and show the softer hard coating has a better Bayer rating.

    The original intent of the Bayer scratch resistance test was to test for scratch resistance but if an object puts more presure on the lens than the Bayer tester then the softer the object the more likely it is to scratch.

    Yes, the hydrophobics make the surface less likely to scratch.

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    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
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    Blue Jumper

    Quote Originally Posted by AWTECH View Post
    .
    Yes, the hydrophobics make the surface less likely to scratch.
    As usual AWTECH has made the most sensible comment on this thread.

    Scratch resistance can be provided by 2 means or principles.:

    1) Apply a coating that is harder than the substrate and it will be more scratch resistant than the original surface.

    2) Apply a slick coat to a substrate and it will be more scratch resistant, not by being harder but by being slick, by letting items slide off instead of hooking on and scratching, However those slick coats are not hard, they are soft.
    Should such a slick coat also provide anti stat and anti fog protection, you also will repel dust from the surface which is the not rubbed around it while cleansing.

    All your standard scratch test's will not work in this case as the principle of protection goes in another direction.

    (However above will not apply to Polycarbonate as the material is so soft that you can mark it with your finger nail or a dust particle if is not hard coated)

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    Master OptiBoarder snowmonster's Avatar
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    The best coating is the one that minimizes scratch warranty remakes but is the least expensive. Our cost on Teflon is significantly less than anything else, so we like it a lot.
    -Steve

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    Redhot Jumper Warranty..................

    Quote Originally Posted by snowmonster View Post
    The best coating is the one that minimizes scratch warranty remakes but is the least expensive. Our cost on Teflon is significantly less than anything else, so we like it a lot.
    Every warranty you have to pay for. Either at the point of purchase or peddle one to the customer. Ipurchase a $ 6.00 item at office max and foir $ 2,00 extra I could have returned the faulty item x amount of time over 2 years.

    Lenses do scratch and have scratched 50 years ago when made from glass which beats any plastic in hardness and never mind the coating.

    Any manufacturer which probably are all of them have their prices adjusted to cover for warranties. Maybe every 3rd pair? In that case you would be overpaying the original pair by 30%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AWTECH View Post
    Scratch resistance due to AR or hard coating toughness can be masked by a hydrophobic. As with any testing you have to compare apples to apples and when comparing lenses, it is easy to compare a rating of one lens with hydrophobic with a contact angle of 8 degrees to lens with a softer hard coating but a hydrophobic with a contact angle of 18 degrees and show the softer hard coating has a better Bayer rating.

    The original intent of the Bayer scratch resistance test was to test for scratch resistance but if an object puts more presure on the lens than the Bayer tester then the softer the object the more likely it is to scratch.

    Yes, the hydrophobics make the surface less likely to scratch.
    Customers only care about how it will stand up to scratches. If the hydrophobic and oliphobic coatings help, then they are satisfied.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by optigrrl View Post
    On the Bayer (sp?) abrasion scale Hoya's Super Hi Vision comes in at over 10.Glass is 12.
    Yes, but my experience with Super Hi vision is VERY poor with respect to adhesion at the 2-3 year mark.

    NO AR coating will stop scratching. The Crizal warranty, IMHO, is second to no other for these A+ class coatings. Nothing is better PR than telling a client that annoying scratches will be taken care of at NC within a 2 year period...even if its a multiple instance situation.

    Barry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    . The Crizal warranty, IMHO, is second to no other for these A+ class coatings. Nothing is better PR than telling a client that annoying scratches will be taken care of at NC within a 2 year period...even if its a multiple instance situation.

    Barry

    The Hoya Super Hivision has the same warranty.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Thanks, Fezz, Now if Hoya would only improve the adhesion.\

    barry

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    Copied from the last AR Thread:

    I have three different pairs, with three different coatings right now (purposly) I have a D'Alize, a UTMC3 and a Teflon. I'd rate them currently UTMC3, D'Alize, Teflon. UTMC3 being the easiest to clean, and quite frankly, the clearest looking out of all of them. I see more residual with my D'alize, and while it cleans as easily as the UTMC3, it gets dirty faster. I don't like my Teflons, plain and simple heh. They're dirty, they don't clean easy, and sure as shoot you see the residual. I haven't had any issue with scratching and/or crazing on any of them.

    That goes for our customers too. When working for Sears, we would get atleast 1 customer back a week with crazed AR (no idea what they used), I've been here going on 7 months, and I might have seen half a dozen. We do more than 50% AR as well (it's higher, I'm just not sure what), using all three.

    In summation... AR works. Chances are, if it's got a good warranty on it, it's going to be a good coating. Don't believe the hype, or the disrespect, try them yourself, and see personally which one you like. :)

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