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Thread: Optician Mark Ups

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by LandLord View Post
    At times, I wish I had the same restraint.More restrictions are obviously not good. The question is, is cost+ a good thing for the patient? The answer is No! Although, that was presumably the intention. Optometrists are humans and their practices are businesses. With cost+ there is no financial incentive to promote a better appliance. When you align patient benefit with practitioner benefit you will get a better result every time. (Unless your name is Excalibur.)
    Thats the argument Dr. Angle from IRIS gives against cost+plus. I don't remember where he was pulling this quote from, but the country with the worst avg quality of spectacles in the developed world is the USA, but the avg the in Ontario is even further behind...

    Oh i think he was referring to something from Essilor looking at what percentage of premium lenses are sold worldwide.

  2. #127
    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oedema View Post
    Thats the argument Dr. Angle from IRIS gives against cost+plus. I don't remember where he was pulling this quote from, but the country with the worst avg quality of spectacles in the developed world is the USA, but the avg the in Ontario is even further behind...

    Oh i think he was referring to something from Essilor looking at what percentage of premium lenses are sold worldwide.
    I think the problme with the US is in the last link in the chain, opticians. Many are not qualified to call themselves opticians, but dispense despite of that, nationally their needs to be licensure to make sure that all professional meet some standard of competence. If there isn't then we all suffer.
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  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by LandLord View Post
    In Canada, opticianry is taught at accredited colleges, such as Georgian or Seneca.
    In Canada the ONLY accredited post-secondary facility teaching Opticianry is BC College of Optics, which offers a two (2)-semester, six (6)-month course of instruction.

    However, Georgian College has just completed their accreditation audit on Nov 30th, 2007 and may soon achieve formal accreditation. Seneca has yet to apply for same.;)

  4. #129
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    I think we would be surprised at what occupations must have University requirements.

    - Financial Planners do not need to get a degree in business or finance. They have to go through their courses.
    - Up until next year, Human Resource specialists could get their CHRP with only a College (community College is the term in the US) diploma.
    - You can get your CGA without a University education

    I am a member of academia and I will tell you straight out, University is not the best field for all professions. Trade schools, apprenticeships, and community colleges can be a far better environment for many professions.

  5. #130
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    there are a few schools here in ohio that have 2 year opticianry programs...I do know a couple opticians that went to 2 of those schools...one had been an optician for 11 years and the other for 5, they are the absolute worst opticians ive ever seen...the people that weve hired off the street and trained have proven to far better than anyone from those schools...but im not blaming the opticians, it must be poor curriculum in the schools...i would love to see some required courses from an accredited school...mabye one day!

    -Billy
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  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhess25 View Post
    there are a few schools here in ohio that have 2 year opticianry programs...I do know a couple opticians that went to 2 of those schools...one had been an optician for 11 years and the other for 5, they are the absolute worst opticians ive ever seen...the people that weve hired off the street and trained have proven to far better than anyone from those schools...but im not blaming the opticians, it must be poor curriculum in the schools...i would love to see some required courses from an accredited school...mabye one day! -Billy
    Why not blame the Opticians? I can tell you from bitter experience that sometimes those with a bit of optical experience have this idea that they don't have to work in class, or they will 'learn it later', etc. And if they went to a 2-year program... but did they complete it? ...did they pass it?

    A full 50% of all Opticians finish in the bottom half of their class.

    Blaming the school's curriculum is similar to a poor mechanic blaming his tools.;)







  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmorse View Post

    A full 50% of all Opticians finish in the bottom half of their class.

    Blaming the school's curriculum is similar to a poor mechanic blaming his tools.;)
    Not only that, but the ones who failed the exams and quit the industry, never had to take the exam again :drop:

  8. #133
    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmorse
    A full 50% of all Opticians finish in the bottom half of their class.
    That number seems a little hih to me. ;)
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  9. #134
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    You guys DO have a sense of humor after all........ a refreshing change! :):) hj
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  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by hcjilson View Post
    You guys DO have a sense of humor after all........ a refreshing change! :):) hj
    Quiet,, I don't think anyone wants the word getting out.:) I am trying to portray myself as a ball buster here don't ruin it for me.;)
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  11. #136
    bilateral peripheral scotoma LandLord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmorse View Post
    In Canada the ONLY accredited post-secondary facility teaching Opticianry is BC College of Optics, which offers a two (2)-semester, six (6)-month course of instruction.

    However, Georgian College has just completed their accreditation audit on Nov 30th, 2007 and may soon achieve formal accreditation. Seneca has yet to apply for same.;)
    Interesting. Please give your definition of "accredited."

  12. #137
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    Opticianry School Accreditation

    Quote Originally Posted by LandLord View Post
    Interesting. Please give your definition of "accredited."
    NACOR has decided to become an accrediting body, and all public Canadian opticianry schools and ourselves have agreed to achieve NACOR accreditation to aid in labour mobility for Opticians. Georgian College volunteered to undergo the first NACOR accreditation, which recently completed its Audit stage.

    NACOR accreditation details and requirements are very extensive, and can be found in Nacor's website. Until this time, all public Colleges had only a simple reporting function to be done annually... ie. that it stayed within its budget, etc and the program was reviewed by the public College's Regents and government every 5 years to determine if government funding would continue.

    A very detailed NACOR 'Self-Study' document is produced and, once approved by NACOR, an independant AUDIT TEAM (consisting of an opticianry instructor, a NACOR official and an accreditation expert) attends at the school to verify its contents. Then NACOR decides whether to grant a full, a partial or a denial of accreditation status. www.naco.ca

    BC College of Optics is a private-school and the Private Career Training Institute Agency (PCTIA) performs a similar accreditation function for Career Colleges. But whereas the NACOR accreditation consists of a curriculum accreditation, the PCTIA accreditation performs the same curriculum audit and also examines the entire school itself, including administration, building, refund policies, Enrolment Agreement, advertising, etc. to ensure student protection.

    The PCTIA Audit Team chosen to verify our BC College of Optics self-study materials included a representative of our regulatory College of Opticians of BC (COBC) as opticianry expert, a UBC department head as administrative expert, and an accreditation expert from PCTIA. Our accreditation was granted almost 10 years ago, in Oct 1998, and has been renewed annually since. www.pctia.bc.ca

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmorse View Post
    Why not blame the Opticians? I can tell you from bitter experience that sometimes those with a bit of optical experience have this idea that they don't have to work in class, or they will 'learn it later', etc. And if they went to a 2-year program... but did they complete it? ...did they pass it?

    A full 50% of all Opticians finish in the bottom half of their class.

    Blaming the school's curriculum is similar to a poor mechanic blaming his tools.;)

    yes they graduated with an associates...besides i have to be nice and blame the school...i was friends with one of those people for a few years before i started working with her....but if i had to be honest....
    equal opportunity offender!!

  14. #139
    bilateral peripheral scotoma LandLord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmorse View Post
    NACOR has decided to become an accrediting body, and all public Canadian opticianry schools and ourselves have agreed to achieve NACOR accreditation to aid in labour mobility for Opticians. Georgian College volunteered to undergo the first NACOR accreditation, which recently completed its Audit stage.

    NACOR accreditation details and requirements are very extensive, and can be found in Nacor's website. Until this time, all public Colleges had only a simple reporting function to be done annually... ie. that it stayed within its budget, etc and the program was reviewed by the public College's Regents and government every 5 years to determine if government funding would continue.

    A very detailed NACOR 'Self-Study' document is produced and, once approved by NACOR, an independant AUDIT TEAM (consisting of an opticianry instructor, a NACOR official and an accreditation expert) attends at the school to verify its contents. Then NACOR decides whether to grant a full, a partial or a denial of accreditation status. www.naco.ca

    BC College of Optics is a private-school and the Private Career Training Institute Agency (PCTIA) performs a similar accreditation function for Career Colleges. But whereas the NACOR accreditation consists of a curriculum accreditation, the PCTIA accreditation performs the same curriculum audit and also examines the entire school itself, including administration, building, refund policies, Enrolment Agreement, advertising, etc. to ensure student protection.

    The PCTIA Audit Team chosen to verify our BC College of Optics self-study materials included a representative of our regulatory College of Opticians of BC (COBC) as opticianry expert, a UBC department head as administrative expert, and an accreditation expert from PCTIA. Our accreditation was granted almost 10 years ago, in Oct 1998, and has been renewed annually since. www.pctia.bc.ca
    Oh, you mean NACOR? Well, I was referring to the College of Opticians.

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmorse View Post
    NACOR has decided to become an accrediting body, and all public Canadian opticianry schools and ourselves have agreed to achieve NACOR accreditation to aid in labour mobility for Opticians. Georgian College volunteered to undergo the first NACOR accreditation, which recently completed its Audit stage.

    NACOR accreditation details and requirements are very extensive, and can be found in Nacor's website. Until this time, all public Colleges had only a simple reporting function to be done annually... ie. that it stayed within its budget, etc and the program was reviewed by the public College's Regents and government every 5 years to determine if government funding would continue.

    A very detailed NACOR 'Self-Study' document is produced and, once approved by NACOR, an independant AUDIT TEAM (consisting of an opticianry instructor, a NACOR official and an accreditation expert) attends at the school to verify its contents. Then NACOR decides whether to grant a full, a partial or a denial of accreditation status. www.naco.ca

    BC College of Optics is a private-school and the Private Career Training Institute Agency (PCTIA) performs a similar accreditation function for Career Colleges. But whereas the NACOR accreditation consists of a curriculum accreditation, the PCTIA accreditation performs the same curriculum audit and also examines the entire school itself, including administration, building, refund policies, Enrolment Agreement, advertising, etc. to ensure student protection.

    The PCTIA Audit Team chosen to verify our BC College of Optics self-study materials included a representative of our regulatory College of Opticians of BC (COBC) as opticianry expert, a UBC department head as administrative expert, and an accreditation expert from PCTIA. Our accreditation was granted almost 10 years ago, in Oct 1998, and has been renewed annually since. www.pctia.bc.ca

    it would be great to have something like this...we dont have that right now..at least not at these 4 local schools.
    equal opportunity offender!!

  16. #141
    bilateral peripheral scotoma LandLord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oedema View Post
    Thats the argument Dr. Angle from IRIS gives against cost+plus. I don't remember where he was pulling this quote from, but the country with the worst avg quality of spectacles in the developed world is the USA, but the avg the in Ontario is even further behind...

    Oh i think he was referring to something from Essilor looking at what percentage of premium lenses are sold worldwide.
    Surprised you know Daryan, being from Chicago. Is IRIS trying to buy practices in Illinois?

  17. #142
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    Dr. Angle was in Chicago recently speaking at the Illinois College of Optometry. They are not looking to expand to Illinois, but he did mention they are looking at doing a trial practice in Washington state. Not too sure how their model will work out for them with the preponderance of managed care in the USA since their model depends on higher professional fees and premium priced eyewear.

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