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Thread: Optician Mark Ups

  1. #1
    Excalibur
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    Optician Mark Ups

    What is the average mark up for lenses in your store? What is the average mark up for frames? What is the average mark up for add-ons such as A/R coating? Does your mark up differ from industry averages?

    How many opticians charge cost plus a flat dispensing rate for their wares?

  2. #2
    Happy Halloween k12311997's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    What is the average mark up for lenses in your store? What is the average mark up for frames? What is the average mark up for add-ons such as A/R coating? Does your mark up differ from industry averages?

    How many opticians charge cost plus a flat dispensing rate for their wares?
    As per posting guidelines costs are not permitted to be discussed in the general forums.

    I'd ask that you'd join the professional forum to discuss these things, but I realize that wouldn't help that ax you have to grind.

  3. #3
    Excalibur
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    Quote Originally Posted by k12311997 View Post
    As per posting guidelines costs are not permitted to be discussed in the general forums.

    I'd ask that you'd join the professional forum to discuss these things, but I realize that wouldn't help that ax you have to grind.
    You are right. Why would opticians want to discuss their mark ups??

  4. #4
    Master OptiBoarder
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    Seriously? Again? You seriously have to stop making new threads just to take pot shots.

    Look, there are specific guidelines on what is appropriate on this forum, and what is not. There IS a forum for discussing pricing, etc, but it's not open to the public, and it SHOULDN'T be. You know damn well that markups are fairly even (atleast when it comes to independants) or else there would be no way for them to be competitive. Do you go around telling all your patients how much markup is on YOUR glasses? I doubt it. So don't get snippy when we don't want to discuss it in open forums. It's $5 to join the professional forum and get your answer. With your 16,000 patients I would think you could scrape that up.

  5. #5
    OptiBoard Professional Ory's Avatar
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    Excalibur,

    You are embarassing yourself, and by association all the other optometrists who post here.

    The posting guidelines for this forum are quite clear. We do not discuss markups, wholesale prices, etc. because it is an open forum. It is just not appropriate because none of us want someone coming into our office saying "I know you only pay X for these lenses so you can discount them for me." Consumers will ignore the thousands of dollars in edging systems, etc. needed to cut the lenses.

    All three Os have their place in the eyecare industry. Personally I don't believe opticians should refract, but I also don't believe optometrists should be doing surgical procedures. Not what I signed up for.

    Optiboard is a great resource. I get a lot out of it. It becomes a lot less enjoyable when a pointless bout of name calling starts. You're not the only one to blame here, and some of these guys will take every opportunity to tell you how optometrists are somewhere between bellybutton lint and pond scum in their opinion. Trying to stir things up only reinforces this opinion and the rift between our two professions. How annoyed do you get when you read an ophthalmologist's opinion that only medically trained doctors should do anything ocular health related?

  6. #6
    Excalibur
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    Several things:

    1. My question about mark-ups is fair, but granted it could be dealt with in another forum.
    2. Optiboard is a very good resource. I learned a few interesting things about several progressives whilst perusing the board.
    3. I don't see optometry lobbying for surgical procedures, and I don't foresee that for a very long time... if ever.
    4. Optometrists have an excellent track record in caring for patient's ocular health. Please read the following report by an academic panel struck to study this issue:
    http://hprac.org/en/reports/resource...il_2006_EN.pdf
    If you read pages 115-129 of this report, it will clarify your misconceptions.
    5. I am not allowed to mark up in my jurisdiction. Unlike opticians who typically charge 250% or 300% markups.

    Sorry to induce the shrill responses that I received from my post.

  7. #7
    Master OptiBoarder
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    You're not allowed to mark up? So you charge COST for everything in your dispensary? I somehow doubt that.

  8. #8
    Excalibur
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdmiralKnight View Post
    You're not allowed to mark up? So you charge COST for everything in your dispensary? I somehow doubt that.

    Believe it. Cost plus a flat dispensing fee for services. No hidden markups.

  9. #9
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    So, not cost then. You charge a 'dispensing fee', I include the fee in my price, or 'markup' as you say. Everything is 'marked up' in this world. How much do you think medication costs? You wanna talk markup, heh. As much as we're optical professionals, we still need to make a living. You're the oddball when it comes to pricing, as most other dispensarys will have similar markup to eachother to be competitive.

  10. #10
    Happy Halloween k12311997's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    Believe it. Cost plus a flat dispensing fee for services. No hidden markups.
    Are your patients aware of the dispensing fee? Is the dispensing fee fixed for all optometrists in your area or is it a maximum allowable model? Are your exam fees set by the regulating agency or do you have freedom to determine what your exam service is worth?

    on a side note of consumers in general. they don't care about the rent, utilities, insurance, payroll, equipment, shipping and other expenses. They see a widget costs a retailer $.50 and sells for $1.50 a 300% mark up so they feel they should be able to get it for $.55 what they don't realize and what you refuse to take into account it costs the retailer $1.12 per widget to bring it to the consumer, less than a 35% mark up.

  11. #11
    Excalibur
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    Quote Originally Posted by k12311997 View Post
    Are your patients aware of the dispensing fee? Is the dispensing fee fixed for all optometrists in your area or is it a maximum allowable model? Are your exam fees set by the regulating agency or do you have freedom to determine what your exam service is worth?

    on a side note of consumers in general. they don't care about the rent, utilities, insurance, payroll, equipment, shipping and other expenses. They see a widget costs a retailer $.50 and sells for $1.50 a 300% mark up so they feel they should be able to get it for $.55 what they don't realize and what you refuse to take into account it costs the retailer $1.12 per widget to bring it to the consumer, less than a 35% mark up.
    Maximum dispensing fee is set by our association/regulatory bodies. My fee is lower than the maximum amount and is not hidden like a mark up would be in an optical shop.

  12. #12
    Excalibur
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdmiralKnight View Post
    So, not cost then. You charge a 'dispensing fee', I include the fee in my price, or 'markup' as you say. Everything is 'marked up' in this world. How much do you think medication costs? You wanna talk markup, heh. As much as we're optical professionals, we still need to make a living. You're the oddball when it comes to pricing, as most other dispensarys will have similar markup to eachother to be competitive.
    Of course we need to make a living. The bill to the patient is itemized -- our wholesale cost of the appliance plus a flat service fee as per regulation. Do you supply your customer with your wholesale cost?

  13. #13
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    No, I don't. As I said, you're a little bit of an oddball when it comes to things like this. You asked about Industry standards when it comes to pricing, and yes, we fall within that standard, infact are lower than most of the chains around us.

  14. #14
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    Their is room for both type of systems. I think consumer confusion will be allayed when optometrist go to a retail pricing system in the future. In my area I think some have already begun this practice(quietly). If you are in a dispensing fee model and you chose frames and lens price carefully your markup (sorry dipensing fee) is greater than most opticians. As well most optometrists sell lenses only at the same dispensing fee. It doesn't pay to bring in expensive lines that bring your inventory up as you make more on a cheaper brand. But all this doesn't amount to a hill of beans. The customer/patient will pay more if they get value for their money. Some will want to choose something that not everybody is wearing and they're willing to pay more for it. That is why some dispensaries will bring in more exclusive product at higher pricing for the discriminating customer. If we pay more for a product so does the patient/customer. This model allows for a reasonable risk versus reward scenario and that is why we use this model. The other side of the coin is the price houses. They are the ones with the high markups. So when you wish to complain about your lot in life don't blame the independents as they are only providing a service for the patient/customer that purchase elsewhere anyway.

  15. #15
    One of the worst people here
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    To clarify the laws, ODs in Ontario are forced to charge Cost Plus (correct me if I am wrong). The fitting fees are between $75 and $125 (that I have seen).

    So if you fit up a pair of Physio 360s with Alize and Transitions in a Sihlouette rimless, the final price of the item is the cost charged to the OD for the Physio, AR, Transitions and frame + the dispensing fee of $75 to $125.

    In my opinion it is a lose/lose situation for ODs and Opticians.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Optician View Post
    I think consumer confusion will be allayed when optometrist go to a retail pricing system in the future. In my area I think some have already begun this practice(quietly).
    There is no Cost-Plus in Nova Scotia. Most (all?) OD offices use retail pricing systems. Including mine. Yes, I work for an OD, and we have a markup! GASP!:drop:

  17. #17
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    I think in some parts of Canada the O.D. is compensated by either state sallary or fee per exam and spectacles are cost+ dispensing fee. Presumeably the salary or fee per exam is concidered to be adequate compensation. I don't know if it really is or not.
    If the fee per exam is adequate, and the optical fees are not why should an O.D. dispense at all? Why not promote a good symbiotic relation ship (I first miss-typed this as elationship, which would probably be the case) with an independent optical dispensary?

    Chip

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    I think in some parts of Canada the O.D. is compensated by either state sallary or fee per exam and spectacles are cost+ dispensing fee. Presumeably the salary or fee per exam is concidered to be adequate compensation. I don't know if it really is or not.
    If the fee per exam is adequate, and the optical fees are not why should an O.D. dispense at all? Why not promote a good symbiotic relation ship (I first miss-typed this as elationship, which would probably be the case) with an independent optical dispensary?

    Chip
    Not really. We have gone over this before.

    The only thing the OD can get compensated for is if the patient has an eye disease is under 20 or over 64.

    As for relationship between ODs and Opticians, it is illegal in the Province of Ontario for ODs and Opticians to hire each other. Yes. So we have non-opticians dispensing for ODs. Now in some cases, these individuals were Opticians and just dropped their licenses. But in some, they are 18 year old girls who know absolutely nothing.

  19. #19
    Excalibur
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    I think in some parts of Canada the O.D. is compensated by either state sallary or fee per exam and spectacles are cost+ dispensing fee. Presumeably the salary or fee per exam is concidered to be adequate compensation. I don't know if it really is or not.
    If the fee per exam is adequate, and the optical fees are not why should an O.D. dispense at all? Why not promote a good symbiotic relation ship (I first miss-typed this as elationship, which would probably be the case) with an independent optical dispensary?

    Chip
    The state paid exam fee is less than 50% of the 3rd party fee rate. State fees are inadequate.

  20. #20
    OptiBoard Professional Ory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    Several things:

    1. My question about mark-ups is fair, but granted it could be dealt with in another forum.
    It was an inflammatory question when taken in context with your other posts.

    2. Optiboard is a very good resource. I learned a few interesting things about several progressives whilst perusing the board.
    Great. I hope you learn lots. This board has certainly increased my interest in our office dispensary, and has encouraged me to try new things.


    3. I don't see optometry lobbying for surgical procedures, and I don't foresee that for a very long time... if ever.
    There are a couple US states where there are surgical procedures being performed by optometrists. Things like blepharoplasties and YAG capsulotomies. When I was at the AAO in October I could have participated in workshops for ocular injections and ocular suturing.

    4. Optometrists have an excellent track record in caring for patient's ocular health. Please read the following report by an academic panel struck to study this issue:
    http://hprac.org/en/reports/resource...il_2006_EN.pdf
    If you read pages 115-129 of this report, it will clarify your misconceptions.
    I'm not sure if you're directing this at me or not. You do realize I'm an OD in Ontario as well......

    5. I am not allowed to mark up in my jurisdiction. Unlike opticians who typically charge 250% or 300% markups.
    Again, this should not be discussed too much on an open forum. I'll send you a PM.

  21. #21
    bilateral peripheral scotoma LandLord's Avatar
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    markupnoun1.
    the amount added to the cost to determine the asking price


    A simple math problem for a smart optometrist

    Asking price for an eye exam = $75
    Cost of an eye exam = $____
    Dr. Excalibur's Markup = $____

  22. #22
    Excalibur
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    The fee in my practice for a consultation varies with complexity, but is less than the recommended rate advised by our provincial fee schedule. The consultation includes retinal imaging, field testing, ultrasound, applanation tonometry, refraction, biomicroscopy, and several other procedures as required as well as an information package of topics relevant to their consultation.

    In fact, we routinely hear from new patients that their consultation was the most thorough they have ever experienced-- far more thorough than the doc-in-a-box that saw them beside the optical shop at their last visit.

  23. #23
    bilateral peripheral scotoma LandLord's Avatar
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    red herring
    –noun

    1.a smoked herring.

    2.something intended to divert attention from the real problem or matter at hand; a misleading clue.

    Example of a red herring:
    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    The fee in my practice for a consultation varies with complexity, but is less than the recommended rate advised by our provincial fee schedule. The consultation includes retinal imaging, field testing, ultrasound, applanation tonometry, refraction, biomicroscopy, and several other procedures as required as well as an information package of topics relevant to their consultation.

    In fact, we routinely hear from new patients that their consultation was the most thorough they have ever experienced-- far more thorough than the doc-in-a-box that saw them beside the optical shop at their last visit.

  24. #24
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    I left Ontario many years ago due to the strange rules set up by their College of Optometry. In BC we hire opticians in office, charge an exam fee that is appropriate, and we have our choice of dispensing fees or markup. Some practices are even more multi-disciplanary with ophthalmologists on staff.

    The government pays towards an eye exam for under 19 and over 64. The other age group the government pays towards any ocular pathology and certain systemic conditions like diabetes, MS, MD. Normally if it is an emergency or children I do not bill over and above.

    Hope this adds to the discussion for the left coast.

  25. #25
    Excalibur
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    Quote Originally Posted by LandLord View Post
    red herring
    –noun

    1.a smoked herring.

    2.something intended to divert attention from the real problem or matter at hand; a misleading clue.

    Example of a red herring:
    Yes, you are correct. It is not possible to calculate a mark-up for a service such an eye consultation. It is, however, possible to calculate a mark-up for a an item such as a pair of eyeglasses.

    Since this thread was initiated to discuss optician's marks, perhaps you can share with the forum why you feel it is necessary to mark-up a pair of generic frames at a different rate than a pair of 'name-brand' frames in your shop.

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