(12/07) Who would you like to see as the next President of the United States?

**1968** · 12-01-2007, 01:04 AM

The results of Optiboard's November's Straw Poll are listed here: http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25816

Hillary Clinton (27%, 8 votes) edged out Fred Thompson (23%, 7 votes), followed by Barack Obama in third (17%, 5 votes), and Ron Paul in fourth (10%, 3 votes). Joe Biden, John Edwards, Rudy Giuliani, Mike Huckabee, and John McCain all tied for fifth (3%, 1 vote). No one voted for Dennis Kucinich, Bill Richardson, or Mitt Romney.

Thanks to all those who voted!

To determine which candidates should be listed, I reviewed the results of the most recent American Research Group polls for each of the two major parties and put down the top six from each party. This poll closes at the end of December and I may open a new one in January.

**1968** · 12-17-2007, 08:01 PM

Time for a bump. Two more weeks before this poll closes.

**Steve Machol** · 12-17-2007, 09:28 PM

Chris Dodd has gone up in my book because he's willing to fight not to give the phone companies the blanket immunity that Bush wants to give them.

Interestingly enough Bush claims that if Congress does not extend the FISA act, it will cost American lives. Then almost in the next breath he says he will veto it if it passes without the phone company immunity. Is there any way to read that except to believe that Bush places the welfare of the phone companies over American lives?

**chip anderson** · 12-17-2007, 10:06 PM

Steve:

I got real bad news for you. Since the days when the phone company first got speakers. They have always played random calls out loud on speaker in thier offices to test for audio transmission and quality. You been bein tapped by the phone company since day one.
What Bush wants is the phone company to be exempt from penatly when complying with government orders.
Kind of like is the swat team member when his following orders and supposed to obey without question? Or is the one giveing the orders the only one liable.
And no, I don't propose to have the answers to these questions.

Chip

**1968** · 12-17-2007, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Steve Machol

Chris Dodd has gone up in my book because he's willing to fight not to give the phone companies the blanket immunity that Bush wants to give them.

I will admit that this is an issue that I have not been following closely. I would have included Dodd in the poll had Kucinich not just edged him out for the sixth Democratic spot.

**Steve Machol** · 12-17-2007, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by chip anderson

What Bush wants is the phone company to be exempt from penatly when complying with government orders.
Kind of like is the swat team member when his following orders and supposed to obey without question? Or is the one giveing the orders the only one liable.

The phone company is not the Mlitary, not the Police and does not have to abide by unlawful orders. Qwest didn't. They rightly insisted on a Court order first.

Besides, even the Miltary does not have to follow unlawful orders. You should know that.

Obey without question is a very telling phrase though. That is the hallmark of totalitarian governments - not Democracies.

**chip anderson** · 12-18-2007, 07:53 AM

Steve:
If you were a sniper in the service of the military (and I can't see you in this role) or civilian SWAT and ordered to shoot, would you trurn around and ask: "Are you sure you can't sweet talk him out of it?"

For what it's worth I wouldn't take such a job in civilian service either, and I am too old and out of shape for the military.

Chip

**Steve Machol** · 12-18-2007, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by chip anderson

Steve:
If you were a sniper in the service of the military (and I can't see you in this role) or civilian SWAT and ordered to shoot, would you trurn around and ask: "Are you sure you can't sweet talk him out of it?"

Okay, let's play the game of Meaningless Hypotheticals.

To expand on your situation, you are the sniper and the target you are told to take out is the current President of the United States.

Now what do you do?

My answer: I would refuse what is clearly an illegal order. Are you still going to 'obey without question'?

**chip anderson** · 12-22-2007, 05:32 PM

Depends on how much time I spent as a POW especially in Mancheria.

Actually It would depend on how much he needed killin'.

I cannot conceive how the president of the U.S. is any more important as a skid row bum. Or any less as long as neither presents any threat to the U.S. or it's citizens. If they do, then either is quite expendable.

Chip