Looking for advice on equipment to start with I need to surface poly too. I want reliable equipment....I own 3 offices and do 25-30 jobs per day....
Any advice would be appreciated on gerber, optek, casting lenses etc I just want to make a good product at a lower cost....
Snowmonster!
The snow man started from scratch,and the experience is still fresh enough in his mind to give you some help (if he's got time). He really knows what he's doing!
Good Luck!:cheers::cheers:
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
Oh...sorry. Snowman is a fellow optiboarder. He should stop in here in awhile.
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
First things first - forget casting lenses. Your plus powered lenses will be way too thick.Originally Posted by bblaker
I've found the National Optronics Vista generator to be very reliable.
DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."
Surface 25-30 or total. Dragon is correct, no casting.
Ok casting is out now what should I do abot surfacing....
O my! Hmmm... Should I even say anything? Hmm... The 'regulars' already know what I think....
If the purpose of the surfacing equipment is to save money on lenses I would strongly consider changing your sales tactics first. Maybe a heavy focus on Free-Form, 1.67-1.74 materials, and a strong push on Transitions and/or AR would create the instant profit increase you are looking for.
If the purpose of your surfacing equipment is to help you, as the owner, pass the time... Go for it! If you are an employee and are looking to create a life-long position within the company then you should buy the equipment. However, if you are the owner and will not personally be running the equipment I would strongly encourage you to find something better to do with your money: http://www.webcalcs.com/cgi-bin/calc...2004&case=401k This calculator estimates that a $50,000 one time investment would be worth about $125,000 in 25 years..... Just an idea.
But then again, I'm just a 'big-time lab guy'! LoL. I am sure all of the millionaire Opticians here on Optiboard will soon tell you to borrow and spend.
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.
Adam
I second the Vista or 2G by national optronics, allows for a wider range in curves than other current generators. Polishers and finers, you could go with used on these and save your self some coin, plus the older models run like tanks (there was a listing in the marketplace for some old coburn stuff you may want to check out). Blocker, alloy all the way forget wax and throw out anyone who suggests it, if you are not hireing competent staff get a fancier automated blocker liek the Gerber Eclipse as it will help reduce spoilage due to paralax. Computers and Software, I like the Visal Lab Pro software as it is simple and does the job, the Innovations software by gerber is nice, but it is a bit cumbersome to add lenses into the database which means you have to keep your contract updated or use old lenses. The computer should have lots of RAM, nowadays 1GB seems to be a more common thing, but half of that would work fine, the HD space should be 40GB or better, lets face it 40 is a low ball number, but patient data doesn't take up much space at all. You will also need various accessories, sag meter, laps (could use lapmasters - foam laps instead although it cost a bit more), deblocker, you could use a section of PVC pipe for shock deblocking but it's not going to save you a fortune to scrimp here), surface saver tape applicator (try VSI they may have one and used is as good as new here), Baum gauge. I probably missed a few items here and there, but this should get you sarted.
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NO!
:D
But we know that won't stop you.
Here...let me help.
"You are wasting your money if you surface, edge, tint, put your own screws in, adjust, wipe your own ask, or do anything your local lab could be paid for. Just buy a sign!:hammer:"
-Adam Cherry
(not really, but maybe):bbg::bbg:
Have a great Thanksgiving!:cheers:
Last edited by Johns; 11-21-2007 at 03:16 PM. Reason: editing is fun!
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
Cherry where did you get the $50,000.00 figure from? How much do you pay for your blanks? How much to process them? Every business model isn't the same. Sure you could get more profit from a sign and offering different products, but what happens when you have already done all that and you want more. If you have multiple offices and the jobs to support a lab go for it, your opticians will become more knowledgeable and sell more and you will find that lens manufacturers will offer your terms on lenses that you couldn't even imagine same goes for price. Heck if it doesn'twork out you could always ell Johns the equipment I heard he's got space in his warehouse after getting rid of that huge Varilux sign.;)
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John, I figured you'd be too busy counting all the money you save by edging your own lenses to waste time with me.
You really seem to be quoting me a lot lately.......... Scary! First Ebay, now you are making posts under my name... Could it be a man-crush?
Adam
Ours sales tactics are right on the money we sale like crazy but that is my point have 3 offices generating over 2 million in sales and I want to further reduce my COG....I figure if I can cut my $15,000 a month lab bil by even a small percentage than I am good....I have an experienced lab tech who ABO optician who has surfaced before and think this is the right move at the right time, I just dont to buy something for the sake of buying it...I dont care about the latest and greatest thing out there my 7070 cut 100x better than my briot axcell drill POS could so I want reliable and cost effective equipment....I have a lifelong position I am a doctor just want to be able to offer better services to my patients and increase my overhead...
I am 100% on board with edging in house. There is a lot of money to be saved doing that.
Surfacing on the other hand I struggle with. If you are comfortable knowing that you will only be able to surface todays progressive technology and material types then I can make an argument for it. But, if you are the type of practice that keeps up with the latest in technology then I don't see how it will work. As the technology changes you will either be forced to send more and more of your work out to the labs or continually put more $$$ into your surface equipment.
Good luck on whatever you do.
No no no no no. Wait just a minute! What exactly to does sell more mean?
Odds are you won't be able to buy semi finished Varilux blanks - so you can subtract that right off the top. Additionally, unless you buy a backside SRC coater you won't be able to process Trivex, Polycarbonate, High Index 1.60-1.67... So take those out as well. You will see some wonderful low prices on semi-finished lenses, but they are exactly that, semi finished. If we use the JohnS theory, whereas we completely neglect the expensive of labor, maintenance, and consumables, we can all pretend to make boat loads of money (i call this a pencil sell. Or you can do it correctly and factor in exactly how much time and resources are invested into each pair of blanks and come out with a true cost (don't forget to add in finish work/time/expense) which will not be as appetizing.
Next thing that usually 'goes' is quality. When you spend all of that time/energy/effort to produce a pair of lenses and it comes out with a PD that is 2mm too wide you just let-er-go, whereas if you paid a lab to make them you would instantly reject the lenses and have a new pair made correctly. DISCLAIMER: THERE PROBABLY ARE MANY GREAT IN HOUSE FULL-SERVICE LABS THAT DO NOT LOWER THEIR QUALITY STANDARDS. Also, things like generator marks, coating blobs, and other 'minor' defects usually get passed. One last thing... The quality and technology behind the PALs you choose to promote/inventory once you have in-house surfacing usually declines. Why buy semi finished HOYA Summit CD for X dollars when you can get Vision Ease Illumina for X -$15 and sell them for the same price?
Food for thought.
Adam
Don't take this wrong, but if you are doing $15,000 a month between three stores you are not a great candidate for surfacing. There are a lot of $35-50,000 a month muti-location clinics across the country that wouldn't even consider surfacing as a way to 'save' money.
You also can't be selling too much of the high end stuff at $5,000.00 per store. Again, don't take this the wrong way. I am sure you do a fine business.... If you'd like to talk about some ideas and maybe setups some benchmarking you can give me a call at 800-469-4211.
Adam
That is $15,000 after discount that I receive from zeiss our gross bill is in excess of 25k 1 office does 650k a year in optical revenue the other is about 250k and the other was started about 2 years ago which is primarily a medicaid office doing stock SV for kids our 1 office bill is about 10k a month... I have seen amny offices doing much less than our using surfacing equipment so there must be something to it...
You buy a coater and do all materials. I mentioned the processing costs and no one should even consider going into surfaceing let alone finishing without factoring in the processing costs. Varilux blanks, as far as I am concerned if this guy is even considering putting in a lab he has probably figured out that Varilux lenses are overhyped anyway, same goes for Summit CD, when you say quality you mena higher priced product when in reality their is no significant data to back up your claim that a hoya summit CD is higher quality than the illumina. The difference could be that instead of rejecting it from your lab for a pd 2mm off and then waiting another week or more for that job, you can restart the job and maintain great customer service by provideing the job when promised.
Also with the coater, you could do like we do and surface all the product in house and cut a deal with a local lab to coat your product, still a great savings.
Now the stuff in bold, so you mean that if I order from you and the job doesn't come out to my satisfaction then you will remake it and it costs me nothing, that's a pencil sale. The cost is rolled into all the lenses that you have made correctly.
I work in an in office lab that does 25-30 jobs a day and we wouldn;t gie up oru lab for the biggest sign in the world, we often gain business from our competitors because we have the capability to make what they can't.
Not to mention the tax incentives for manufactureing in the US instead of sending manufactureing jobs overseas, don't understand why that should get an incentive, but it does. Not to mention this incentive is on the workers in the lab so if someone works part time in your lab and part time in your store, nod nod wink wink.
You could also supply neigboring opticals with some of their product to keep your lab operateing more affordably and efficently. If and a big IF your business can support the lab and you notice I say if your business can support the lab, then it's a great move. If your lab is theri to support your business then you probably are doign business with a poor lab and would benefit mroe form a switch.
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definitly interested in hearing more about tax incentives as well....
If someone is serious about purchasing surfacing equipment for their in-house lab they already know all the pretty pictures, fancy ideas, and wonderful prosperous dreams associated with it... Too bad I have to be the big dark rain cloud.. But all is not lost... We all sleep in the bed we make (or however that expression goes).
As far as Summit CD v Illumina... If you want to put our theories to a test, let's do it! I am positive the folks at HOYA would back me up if you are interested in doing some kind of patient satisfaction survey or trial on the two lens designs! The ball is in your court on that one. Either do a trial with me and we can find out the truth or keep spewing the same Optical diarrhea - the idea that a 'lack of evidence' is 'evidence' .
As far as the price of remakes being factored into the cost of uncut or finished lenses from a lab - you are right on! Also those same factors are included in the price of semi-finished. Way back in the 'olden-days' labs used to be able to return semi-finished blanks to the manufacturers for credit do to front side scratches, defects, and other flaws. Well, that didn't work out so well so most of the manufacturers came out with a pricing program that just lowered the overall price of the blanks to 'cover the expense of warranties'. I think the standard number used was 12-18%. So... Manufacturers reduced their blank cost by 12-18% a number of years ago and stopped warranting semi-finished. ... Just remember that your semi finished prices might be low today but they will continue to creep up in price.. They do for eveyrone... Fuel surcharge, shipping charges, price increases... Whatever they call it it will go up as well.
Adam
By maxing out your 401k each year you instantly save approximately 28-33% as the money is invested pre-tax. I think you can up to 15,500 per year unless u are over 50 then the number is 20,000.
If you are already maxing out your 401k you might want to consider a Roth 401k. You don't get to put the money in pre-tax but there are tax advantages when you take the money out....
O! Those weren't the tax incentives you wanted to learn about? My bad.
Adam
I am assuming Kerrville, TX contact these poepls:
http://www.tmac.org/ and your accountant.
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$200, 000 in equipment and inventory.
And after that is gone prepare to spend some more.
Rep
O my! The 401k calculator estimates that a $200,000 one time investment would net you $641,000 in 20 years! Ths is without adding another penny.. Hmmm....
Be very careful where you spend your money. I don't want to see some of you on TV in your late 70's *****ing about not having money to pay for your medication. Plan ahead!
Adam
Cherry I appreciate your constant financial advise on investing but no so much looking for that I invest my roths, simple IRA etc I want to run my business better by surfacing and if you can save me enough money by pricing my lab out then do it, if not I dont need basic financial advice from you.....
The lack of evidence is evidence, is optical diarrhea and I never suggested that, but to say one is better than another means you have some miraculous data that no one else is privy to, also when you say user tirals what exactly do you mena by that. Satisfaction, Acceptance, or Objective. Companies have already done all of these trilas and their is no need in repeating them, the problem stems from not getting the data. Yes the Summit CD might outperform the Illumina in one area, but does it outperform in all, then you have to weigh the fact that a prescription is going to go into this lens which are going to change some of the variables and people don't use their lenses for the saem thing so is wider reading, distance or intermediate going to be more improtant to the patient.
Given all that
Optical Diarrhea = The quality and technology behind the PALs you choose to promote/inventory once you have in-house surfacing usually declines.
That is a very short sighted comment you made and it's amazing to me that you stand behind it. You have a good point that the numbers do need to be run and everything factored in, but to suggest that their is no instance that an in store lab would benefit a practice means you are bold face lieing.
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*Dave at OptiVision has a web based tracer integration package that's awesome.
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