NYS Practical Review Challenge

[Kristen P]

I took the NYS Practical and just got my results. I missed it by 4 points!:(
I am going to challenge the results. Could someone help me to prepare for this process? I know I can bring books, etc., but what am I to expect going in?

[obxeyeguy]

Most of the answers on the practical are pretty cut and dry, as I remember. PD, best lens choice, best frame choice, neut lenses, seg ht. Where do you feel that your answers were correct and they scored you wrong? Remember, parts of the test had 2 examiners, if they scored opposite, or big differance then you might have a chance.

[hcjilson]

It is my opinion that ANY examination requiring an "opinion" for a grade is not leagally defensible. There is no way to "prove" a pass or a fail. If the examiner didn't like the way you parted your hair you could have failed. My opinion is based on my experience as a member of the Massachusetts Board of Registration. We gave up our practical because Board members were not indemnified against suit brought by exam candidates. We later found and adopted a practical exam authored by Dr Ferguson who is also a contributing member of Optiboard, and may well be able to shed some light on how Kristn should best proceed. hj

[hcjilson]

Most of the answers on the practical are pretty cut and dry, as I remember. PD, best lens choice, best frame choice, neut lenses, seg ht. Where do you feel that your answers were correct and they scored you wrong? Remember, parts of the test had 2 examiners, if they scored opposite, or big differance then you might have a chance.

In the area's above, with the exception of the PD...and perhaps but not necessarily neutraliztion ( unless the examiners can prove the sample had been "proved" by an independant source like Colt labs), the grade is an "opinion" and cannot be proved. I have spoken with members of the NY board on several occasions and they seem confident that their exam will hold up. I don't know why, .....its never been tested in a court of law, and if it were, I would follow that case very carefully.

There currently exists at least one completely objective, written practical examination, and its a mystery to me why it hasn't been adopted by all states.

[Fezz]

Harry brings up some very valid points. Opinion can be a very fickle way of GRADING someones performance. All sorts of things affect opinion. I applaud your efforts to challenge the results. My only suggestion is to study up, prepare, prepare, prepare! Good luck and please keep us posted!

[ldyflsh]

been there, done that....you'll get to review your exam and "check over" all of your answers. Bring whatever study materials you've used. The truth is, you won't find the 4 points you need. I also needed 4 points and was able to prove 1/2 point...their decision. You can challenge their scoring if you can support your original answers. Basically, you're set in a room with a group of students and a proctor... it's pretty stressful. Be prepared to retake the test in the spring..I won't tell you that it'll be any less stressful,but at least you'll know what you're up against going in. Good Luck!

[hyperoptic]

I challenged and won heres what I did

I got a 73 my practical and heres what I did to challenge, for every thing you wish to challenge you must write a reason for your challenge and provide proof. I brought my CPP books and a copy of the new ansi standards, then for every question I felt I was wronged on I wrote two parts, the first was why I didnt feel I was wrong and the second assuming I was wrong how I would fix the problem after the glasses were made. This explains why you said what you said and that you have a depth of knowledge to fix problems that may arise when you are practicing (be as specific as possible about things like induced prism and how panto will change seg etc.) when I took it in the spring they were using the new standards that could be enough to save you right there

[hcjilson]

Wouldn't it have been easier......

Wouldn't it have been easier to have the test prove you to be correct, rather than having to "prove" to the examiners that you were correct?

[HarryChiling]

Wow, good for you. The sceptics said it was a feat to behold and you made it happen.

[hcjilson]

Hat's off to you!

I got a 73 my practical and heres what I did to challenge, for every thing you wish to challenge you must write a reason for your challenge and provide proof. I brought my CPP books and a copy of the new ansi standards, then for every question I felt I was wronged on I wrote two parts, the first was why I didnt feel I was wrong and the second assuming I was wrong how I would fix the problem after the glasses were made. This explains why you said what you said and that you have a depth of knowledge to fix problems that may arise when you are practicing (be as specific as possible about things like induced prism and how panto will change seg etc.) when I took it in the spring they were using the new standards that could be enough to save you right there

Congratulations for not rolling over and challenging what you thought was an incorrect grade. I would like to remind those of us that may have forgotten what a practical exam is supposed to measure. It is a measure of "Entry Level skills" and nothing more. It is not complicated and if you have the practical knowledge gained in a clinical or apprenticship format you should not have a problem.

Hyper, in your post above you stated that you had to prove your answer. Did you ask the examiner the courtesy of proving his grade?

[obxeyeguy]

It's been a while, any luck??

[hyperoptic]

No I didnt ask them to prove anything I just proved my answer was indeed correct and yes lets hear an update

[Barry Santini]

I took the NYS Practical and just got my results. I missed it by 4 points!:(
I am going to challenge the results. Could someone help me to prepare for this process? I know I can bring books, etc., but what am I to expect going in?

Don't feel so bad!

A friend of mine, who took the NYS ophthalmic dispensing practical TWICE, and failed both times (one time, he "hooked" the examiner's nose when attempting to place a frame on the examiner's face!).

Now, he's head of obstetrics at a large, LI mega-hospital complex.

Moral: either the OD practical is tougher than any of us thought, or...its fundamentally unscientific and unstructured.

Take yer pick!

Barry

[SharonB]

NYS Basic Practical Exam

I am so disturbed to hear all these bad things about the New York State Pratical Examination. The NYS Board for Ophthalmic Dispensing, and Capitol Hill Testing Services (the contract holder for the outsourced exam) have worked very carefully to produce an examination that is objective, based on a task analysis, (in which over 700 licensed opticians in New York participated in, and undergoes constant revision), and is legally difensable in court. The examination tests practical skills that are not tested in the NOCE (ABO) examination, thus reducing testing redundancy.
The NOCE exam is the written portion of the NYS licensing process.
The practical exam tests the ability to actually perform the skills identified as "critical", or "frequently performed", in the task analysis, and the grading criteria are pre-set for the examiners.The examiners have no opinions. You can part your hair any way you want. Or, have no hair at all! It dosen't matter.
The candidates are asked to fill out a laboratory order form in such a way as to produce eyeglasses that are COLTS and ANSI acceptable. They are also asked to do certain fitting and adjusting tasks, and to solve fitting complications.
Again, the grading criteria are provided to the examiners, and they cannot, and do not, deviate from those criteria.
Candidates are provided with frame measurements, PAL cut-out charts, patient profiles that detail patient concerns, PAL identifiers, and other aids. They are asked to neutralize either tri-focals, or PALs. Their responses must be within ANSI tolerances.
They are asked to take monocular measurements (for PDs and seg. hgt.) and fill out the order form in such a way as to be able to produce a pair of ANSI or COLTS compliant glasses.
Is this so hard?

If a prospective optician cannot perform these tasks, then they have not been properly prepared.

New York State law requires a practicuum that is task analysis based, continuously psychometrically evaluated, and is proven to be an accurate discrimininator between entry level skilled, and unskilled, practitioners. All the data collected at the conclusion of an examination cycle are evaluated, and scaled if necessary.
I have been involved in the NYS exam process since 1979, and I have never seen an exam process that was so fair, objective, and compassionate to the entry-level optician.

I think this exam has been the victim of "urban myth." There are NO "examiners-out-to-get-you". The only thing that will "get you" is your lack of preparation.

Every candidate should read the material sent by Capitol Hill Testing Service. This will tell you exactly what to bring to the exam, what to expect, and what skills will be tested. I am constantly amazed by the number of candidates who arrive at the exam without any kind of tool, instrument, or device, for measuring PDs. Come on - this is BASIC!
OK - I think everyone needs to get a grip re: the NYS exam.

[hyperoptic]

Whoa relax in every standardized exam (which to me thats what the boards are) you will find people who have said that it was fixed against them. No one is doubting that you all work hard to produce a fair test, but sharon since who work so closely may I ask you why we were still required to work with hard contacts? or a vertometer? I know many opticians in the western New York region and they have never needed to use any of those skills, furthermore dont the recent changes in ANSI standard show that the human body has the ability to adapt to variations from what is found in an exam room and what is finally dispensed to a patient. While I do fully agree that accurate filling of Rx's is important and being able to properly adjust eyeware is also paramount as a dispensing Optician I do not think that New York States Exam is a perfect test, also I have met people who were liscensed before I was and my skills as a dispensing Optician were far greater than theres (by there own admission) so I dont believe that just because someone can pass your test means that they are a good Optician. When I Challenged my results I used Science, Logic, and Law and apparently some of your fellow Board members decided that I had proven my case well enough to grant me my License.