How do you handle patients that want refunds?

[Radgirl 1]

I have a patient whose prescription is virtually identical to previous, she's in the same type of progressive, all measurements have been verified ie. seg ht, pd, fit, and the refraction has been checked twice.

She says the new glasses don't work. She's been in a couple of times for adjustments and now wants a refund.

As far as I can tell, the only difference is in the frame.

While I really want this woman to disappear, I don't want to give her back $500. I wouldn't mind refunding the frame price because we can always resell that, but I don't think it's fair to me to refund the lens cost.

How do I solve it without taking a loss or having an unhappy customer?

[Andrew Weiss]

We've had several threads dealing with this issue. Most of the professionals on the board agree on "no refunds." I'm one of them.

[AdmiralKnight]

I agree. Don't go that route. If you don't want an upset patient, you can try a different frame. Yes, it'll cost you another set of lenses, but it's not $500 either. Other than that, you don't have many options.

Can you give us some more info? Maybe there's something missing that someone here can pick up on.

[Fezz]

How do I solve it without taking a loss or having an unhappy customer?

You already have an unhappy patient.

You really don't want this patient back, and they probably will not be coming back. I hate refunds....really hate e'm. But, this is a situation where you may wantto cut your loses and refund it and move on.

Good Luck!

[HarryChiling]

We have NO REFUNDS printed on the receipt so that their should never be a question about it, but when it does arise we refund minus a 25% fee for labor and materials. If they don't liek that we kindly explain to them it is not an option as the policy is no refunds and that the 75% back would be a courtesy. I also offer to remake it if they are not happy with the frame or lenses into something more suitable.

[kdog2020]

go ahead and refund the frame--the lenses are custom and cannot be returned. if it comes down to it to get rid of them, refund everything.

We just did a refund this morning for a pt who claimed she couldn't see in her third remake. Everything checks out on the glasses. Despite (seems like) hours of education, explanations of expectations, and remakes, this pt has unrealistic expectations and will not be happy no matter what we do.

It was explained that we apologize that the glasses did not meet her expectations, all monies and benefits will be refunded, and she is welcome to go elsewhere (PLEASE). Only the second time we have done this, but pts like this are not worth my or my staffs aggravation.

I hate to refund the money, and also forfeit the exam fee, but I don't even want to hold the patients prescription. sometimes its better to cut your losses. I don't really worry about what she tells her friends--anyone who knows this person, and accepts them as rational and normal, I do not want as a pt either.:)

[TLG]

... she's in the same type of progressive, all measurements have been verified ie. seg ht, pd, fit, and the refraction has been checked twice.
...She's been in a couple of times for adjustments...

What 'adjustments' have been done. Have the lenses been remarked and put on the patient's face for evaluation. PD's, seg hgt retaken? What is the base curve on previous pair? Panto ok? Does the frame have some 'face wrap'? If a complaint is about reading width, I sometimes rotate the lenses down nasally just slightly to widen reading zone (unless high cyl). Check the lens surface for integrity - look for waves or 'orange peel' appearance.

How do I solve it without taking a loss...

It's a PAL, have you tried simply having it remade (I don't see that mentioned in your post)? It should cost you $Zero to have them remade once.

... or having an unhappy customer?

The Man, The Myth, the....is correct again as usual - she is already unhappy or she wouldn't be asking for money back.

Good Luck!!

[KStraker]

go ahead and refund the frame--the lenses are custom and cannot be returned. if it comes down to it to get rid of them, refund everything.

We just did a refund this morning for a pt who claimed she couldn't see in her third remake. Everything checks out on the glasses. Despite (seems like) hours of education, explanations of expectations, and remakes, this pt has unrealistic expectations and will not be happy no matter what we do.

It was explained that we apologize that the glasses did not meet her expectations, all monies and benefits will be refunded, and she is welcome to go elsewhere (PLEASE). Only the second time we have done this, but pts like this are not worth my or my staffs aggravation.

I hate to refund the money, and also forfeit the exam fee, :)

I just gave a refund to a loon just like this. However, they never, ever, not in a million years, get the exam fee back.

[orangezero]

Another option is stepping back and figuring out why she can't see. It doesn't always have to be optically related. Was she dilated? Did the exam take 4 minutes? Was the prescription filled from a 23.9 month old prescription? Its certainly possible she has some ocular or systemic disease that could be the underlying cause.

I ask, not to harp, but rather question how all of you deal with these issues of outside prescriptions (or even inside really). At what point in your mind do you question whether or not there may be more going on besides the other common issues listed in other posts? I know everyone has a point where it is off to the doctor to "recheck the prescription." Is it just left up to the doctor to decide?

[Radgirl 1]

She has high cyl and was seeing 20/25-2 OD, OS with her previous glasses. Her new ones have a slightly different cyl which gets her to 20/20, but I'm sure they feel different that the previous ones she had. So the only other thing I can do is revert back to the previous cyl with which she doesn't see as well.

I also trial framed this before prescribing and informed her that the new glasses will feel different, but she twice confirmed that she sees better through the new Rx.

Seg hts were checked and base curves were matched to previous lenses.

Her original complaint is that distance is not quite clear, and when we fix it, she doesn't like the new Rx.

[HarryChiling]

Another option is stepping back and figuring out why she can't see. It doesn't always have to be optically related. Was she dilated? Did the exam take 4 minutes? Was the prescription filled from a 23.9 month old prescription? Its certainly possible she has some ocular or systemic disease that could be the underlying cause.

I ask, not to harp, but rather question how all of you deal with these issues of outside prescriptions (or even inside really). At what point in your mind do you question whether or not there may be more going on besides the other common issues listed in other posts? I know everyone has a point where it is off to the doctor to "recheck the prescription." Is it just left up to the doctor to decide?

Good points, I assumed since the refraction has been checked twice any non optical condition would have been addresses, but you never know and should never rule anything out.

[DragonLensmanWV]

If all attempts at satisfying fails, a refund is given. I also tell them that, since they did not want to work with us to resolve their complaint, they will not be allowed back into our office. This really startles some of them
Lose 'em once, lose 'em forever!

[HarryChiling]

Seg hts were checked and base curves were matched to previous lenses.

I have found that more often than not matching base curves causes more problems than anything else. When we see "MATCH BASE CURVE" written on a Rx that usually indicates to us this patient is picky.

[obxeyeguy]

Her new ones have a slightly different cyl which gets her to 20/20, but I'm sure they feel different that the previous ones she had.

Any axis change?? or just the power? Oblique axis? The easiest way I see is to re-do with old powers, or really delve into what she is unhappy with, as many times they don't like the frame and it makes them not "see". My number one rule: always believe what the patient says until you can prove otherwise.

[Radgirl 1]

Which is why I'm frustrated. The old axis doesn't work great and she won't give the new one a chance.

[obxeyeguy]

The old axis doesn't work great and she won't give the new one a chance.

Use two small sticky notes and cover up the lens about 5 mm outside of pupil, simulating more of a pin hole effect, if that helps, it is simply an adaption issue. If not put the axis back.

PS: the amount of cyl, and the axis info would help, me at least.

[Barry Santini]

(where necessary), because *I'm* in control of the situation. I look upon these opportunties as ways to increase my "avilable" time for more important clients...clients who won't arrive at the refund point.

FWIW

Barry

[Andrew Weiss]

Sometimes there's nothing more comfortable than that old shoe, even if you don't walk as well in it . . .

Does she give you the same response in the trial frame? If so, I would agree with your diagnosis that the patient isn't giving the new axis a chance.

As Fezz aptly points out, she is already unhappy, and it sounds like she's created a situation where you cannot make her happy.

I still don't like refunds. But if I were to give one here, I would give it for the frame only. I like Harry's 25% lab-fee idea, but even there you aren't recovering your costs for making the lenses.

[obxeyeguy]

but even there you aren't recovering your costs for making the lenses.
__________________

Return them to adam, as a non-adapt. Ha!

[HarryChiling]

Return them to adam, as a non-adapt. Ha!

LMAO, not only would this be hilarious, but you would get to see it on the warranty thread. :D

[DragonLensmanWV]

Sometimes there's nothing more comfortable than that old shoe, even if you don't walk as well in it . . .

Does she give you the same response in the trial frame? If so, I would agree with your diagnosis that the patient isn't giving the new axis a chance.

As Fezz aptly points out, she is already unhappy, and it sounds like she's created a situation where you cannot make her happy.

I still don't like refunds. But if I were to give one here, I would give it for the frame only. I like Harry's 25% lab-fee idea, but even there you aren't recovering your costs for making the lenses.

I have told patients before , and this IS true,
"Remember your pair of glasses you had before the now-old pair? Remember how you said you could see better out of your old ones than you can the new ones? Now the ones you couldn't see out of before are the ones you see best with now. Wear your new ones, bury your old ones in a drawer, and in two years these will be ones you can see better out of than your new ones."

Rinse, repeat.

Old shoes, indeed!:D

[chip anderson]

Usually give them thier money back in full but make a notation in file that if they ever do return there will be a clear understanding that new purchases or services are on an no return, no warranty basis.

Chip

[Andrew Weiss]

I have told patients before , and this IS true,
"Remember your pair of glasses you had before the now-old pair? Remember how you said you could see better out of your old ones than you can the new ones? Now the ones you couldn't see out of before are the ones you see best with now. Wear your new ones, bury your old ones in a drawer, and in two years these will be ones you can see better out of than your new ones."

Rinse, repeat.

Old shoes, indeed!:D

:D:D:D

[braheem24]

She has high cyl and was seeing 20/25-2 OD, OS with her previous glasses. Her new ones have a slightly different cyl which gets her to 20/20, but I'm sure they feel different that the previous ones she had. So the only other thing I can do is revert back to the previous cyl with which she doesn't see as well.

I also trial framed this before prescribing and informed her that the new glasses will feel different, but she twice confirmed that she sees better through the new Rx.

Seg hts were checked and base curves were matched to previous lenses.

Her original complaint is that distance is not quite clear, and when we fix it, she doesn't like the new Rx.

Never in Hell would she get a refund from me, the fact that she is "uncomfortable" in her new rx is an adaptation problem, she is seeing better therfore the rx is correct if she is unhappy remake it to her old rx and expect a thank you for your service above and beyond the call of duty. You've fixed her original complaint dont short sell yourself.

Ibrahim

[optigrrl]

Which is why I'm frustrated. The old axis doesn't work great and she won't give the new one a chance.

After several years and a few of these people, I learned to try a test to see where the problem really was.

Offer to remake the glasses - you choose - in her old rx or in the newest one (citing that there may be an aberrational defect not showing up on your instruments) and shelve the job for a week.

Call her back in and see if she has the same problem. If she does, you can refund her how you see fit or re test her knowing that it's a va problem out of your hands.

If she finds a different problem, then you can call her out on it (buyers remorse most likely) or whatever. You'll have your answer either way.