View Poll Results: (08/07) Who would you like to see as the next President of the United States?

Voters
25. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hillary Clinton

    2 8.00%
  • John Edwards

    2 8.00%
  • Al Gore

    0 0%
  • Rudy Guliani

    5 20.00%
  • Mike Huckabee

    0 0%
  • Dennis Kucinich

    0 0%
  • John McCain

    0 0%
  • Barack Obama

    2 8.00%
  • Ron Paul

    3 12.00%
  • Bill Richardson

    2 8.00%
  • Mitt Romney

    1 4.00%
  • Fred Thompson

    3 12.00%
  • Other Democrat candidate

    0 0%
  • Other Republican candidate

    2 8.00%
  • Other independent or third party candidate

    1 4.00%
  • Not sure

    2 8.00%
  • No preference

    0 0%
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Thread: (08/07) Who would you like to see as the next President of the United States?

  1. #1
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    (08/07) Who would you like to see as the next President of the United States?

    It's only a matter of time before someone put this to a poll: Who would you like to see as the next President of the United States?

    To determine which candidates should be listed, I reviewed the results of the most recent Gallup polls for each of the two major parties and put down the top six from each party. This poll closes at the end of August and I plan to open a new one in September.

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    Tommy Franks

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    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Honestly for me it's too early to make a decision. There are a number of people I like and some I definitely would not want to see as President. My decision will be based on:

    a. Who I believe is best able to truly defend and restore our rights under the Constitution of the United States.

    b. Has the best chance of helping remove the nastiness and divisions in our current political climate.

    c. Who can best work with members of both major parties to enact real fiscal and electoral reform.

    d. Who has a real understanding of what the so-called 'War on Terror' really is and what it takes to fight it.

    So far, there is no one person I see who provides all of these.


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    Remember that every officer of the armed forces takes an oath: "To defend the Constitution of the United States". Isn't that what you are asking for Steve?
    Not to say that there are not those who have taken such and oath an abandoned it.

  5. #5
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    It's not the Armed Forces I'm concerned about. It's our Government 'Leaders'. Frankly I believe the Armed Forces have a higher regard and respect for the Constitution than our politicians.


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    That's why I said : "Tommy Franks" not only as mentioned in the above two posts, he has shown he will get the job done no matter what it is if it's for the benfit of the country.

  7. #7
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Tommy Franks, in Cigar Aficianado

    Now, let me talk to the substance of your question: Two years after the fact of 9/11, we should ask ourselves what is—not in 1941, not in 1917ñ1918—today, in the twenty-first century, what is the worst thing that can happen in our country? The worst thing that can happen is, perhaps—and this is my personal opinion—two steps. The first step would be a nexus between weapons of mass destruction of any variety. It could be chemical, it could be biological, it could be some nuclear device; and terrorism. Terrorists or any human being who is committed to the proposition of terror, try to just create casualties, not for the purpose of annihilation, but to terrify a population. We see it in the Middle East today, in order to change the mannerisms, the behavior, the sociology and, ultimately, the anthropology of a society.

    That goes to step number two, which is that the western world, the free world, loses what it cherishes most, and that is freedom and liberty we've seen for a couple of hundred years in this grand experiment that we call democracy. Now, in a practical sense, what does that mean? It means the potential of a weapon of mass destruction and a terrorist, massive casualty-producing event somewhere in the western world—it may be in the United States of America—that causes our population to question our own Constitution and to begin to militarize our country in order to avoid a repeat of another mass-casualty-producing event. Which, in fact, then begins to potentially unravel the fabric of our Constitution. Two steps: very, very important.


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    Master OptiBoarder Grubendol's Avatar
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    This is honestly really tough for me, but I think with all things being equal the only man who will really help the average working American and be able to rebuild the destroyed infrastructure of this country would be John Edwards. My second choice would be Barack Obama. while he's a bit too centrist for my tastes, he does have an incredible ability to inspire and to get things done through compromise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Machol View Post
    Honestly for me it's too early to make a decision. There are a number of people I like and some I definitely would not want to see as President. My decision will be based on:

    a. Who I believe is best able to truly defend and restore our rights under the Constitution of the United States.

    .
    Yes Sir! Keep your hands off my guns! Please!

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    Master OptiBoarder Grubendol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gemstone View Post
    Yes Sir! Keep your hands off my guns! Please!

    Or my civil rights, or any of my bill of rights, especially the free speech thing, and freedom of religion isn’t too bad either.

    Right to privacy is pretty nifty too.
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  11. #11
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    Think the Constitution re-establishes inalienable rights, not civil rights.
    Inalienable rights are those given by God and the Constitution forbids Federal, State and Local Govenments from infringing on same.

    Chip

  12. #12
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    He's talking about the rights in the other 9 amendments of the Bill of Rights. So I take it you are only interested in the Second Amendment and don't care about your other rights? Personnally I want them all, but if you don't care to keep yours, then that's your choice. However this doesn't give you or anyone else the right to take mine away, just as I have no interest in keeping you from your beloved guns. :)

    I believe any 'rights' default to the people, not the government. In otherwords, the government gets it's powers from the will of the people, not the other way around.

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with inherent and inalienable rights; that among these, are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." --Declaration of Independence as originally written by Thomas Jefferson, 1776. ME 1:29, Papers 1:315


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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubendol View Post
    . . .would be John Edwards.
    Truly scary. If you care about this country at all, please cleanse any thoughts of John Edwards helping anying. And by the way, I am not a conservative christian, gun-toting, Bush-lover. I think the Bush adminstration has done more harm to the soverignty of this country than any president in my or my parent's lifetime.
    John Edwards is a socialist, and not the good kind. He wants to give unions more power and make it illegal for an employer to offer an employee more money or benefits as an incentive not to unionize. Isn't that the purpose of unionizing, to get more pay or benefits? (wasn't there a thread on this board about this?) He wants to expand welfare so that anyone who doesn't want to work doesn't have to. Sorry Mr Edwards, we are already there. Every business owner I talk to says that finding employees is the number one reason that they can't increase business; not lack of customers, but lack of workers. Our local McDonald's can only get drug users for $7.50/hr. If you want someone to show up for even the easiest job, you have to pay at least $10/hr and not say anything about a drug test. If you want someone not to embarass you company in front of a customer, you better cough up 20% more. Keep in mind that I am giving you numbers from the most depressed area of my state and nowhere near a city. It's even worse in the cities. The problem w/ 'average working Americans' as you say, is that they think they are entitled to all the stuff that John Edwards promises without having to work for it. His socialist ideas are not able to be funded long term. His is a true populist in the worst sense of the term.

    I just don't know what you mean about "destroyed infrastructure". It's probably the best in the world, and getting better.

    I don't have anything exceptionally bad to say about any of these canidates except Edwards - He is truly scary. But so is GW Bush, and it looks like we just might make it out of his tenure intact. Wounded, but intact.

  14. #14
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcE View Post
    John Edwards is a socialist, and not the good kind. He wants to give unions more power and make it illegal for an employer to offer an employee more money or benefits as an incentive not to unionize.
    .
    .
    .
    He wants to expand welfare so that anyone who doesn't want to work doesn't have to.
    Really? That's the first I've heard of those claims. Can you please provide direct links showing that John Edwards has taken these positions?


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  15. #15
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    Democrat, socialist, communist what's the difference. Just the intensity and the method. All seek to live off the efforts of others.

    Chip

  16. #16
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Democrat, socialist, communist what's the difference. Just the intensity and the method. All seek to live off the efforts of others.

    Chip
    That's as accurate as saying:

    Republican, Conservative, Fascist, Nazi - what's the difference? All seek to unfairly disdvantage others and live off the efforts of others.

    I don't believe either statement is true, but it does tell us a lot about you.


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  17. #17
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    Steve:
    The "Efforts of Others" used by conservatives and Republicans are people hired to do the job. They have a choice and leave that employment any time they desire. The "Efforts of Others" used by democrats and communists are forced to do so, by law or even stronger means.
    That's the difference.
    Perhaps not being able to see the differnce says a lot about Liberals.

    Chip:D

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    Just give me my firearms. I'll protect my others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Machol View Post
    Really? That's the first I've heard of those claims. Can you please provide direct links showing that John Edwards has taken these positions?
    No, I can't. Heard part of it on NPR news, read part of it in a newspaper somewhere, may have even read some of it on this board. If anyone is thinking about voting for him, I'm sure you can find your sources

  20. #20
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Steve:
    The "Efforts of Others" used by conservatives and Republicans are people hired to do the job. They have a choice and leave that employment any time they desire. The "Efforts of Others" used by democrats and communists are forced to do so, by law or even stronger means.
    That's the difference.
    Perhaps not being able to see the differnce says a lot about Liberals.

    Chip:D
    First, I'm not liberal as even you would define it. I have libertarian leanings and views. You should look up the word.

    Even if I were, all this does is show your mindset. it says nothing about liberals. It's just as easy for me to paraphrase you and twist your words, but honestly the effort would be wasted on you.

    You seem to forget that I know your real views <edited out>. The love of personal freedom and respect for the Constitution of the United States is not something you have.


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  21. #21
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gemstone View Post
    Just give me my firearms. I'll protect my others.
    Really? You can defend your right to free speech, assembly and all the other rights in the Bill of Rights with a gun? Then why aren't you? The government is eroding these rights more and more every day - and both Republicans and Democrats are complicit in this.

    What are you and your gun doing about this? Do you really think you can stand up to the U.S Government and Military if needed?

    Good luck with that. And I mean it. Because it may just come down to that one day.


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  22. #22
    Bad address email on file k12311997's Avatar
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    IMHO how you view unions is going to affect how you view the paragraph from Edward's site. I believe unions are a large part of the reason that america is unable to compete in the global market place. Maybe GM and the UAW is just one of the worst examples but a large percentage of the cost of a car from GM is legacy payments not the materials or the labor. my Synoposis of Strengthen Labor Laws-- Unionize McDonalds because there is no international competition, which will force the unionization of all entry level jobs everything will cost more but the guy behind the counter will be making 15.00 to take your order, but don't ask him to get you a pack of ketchup because that is below his pay grade.

    from Edward's web site

    Strengthen Labor Laws: Unions made manufacturing jobs the foundation of our middle class, and they can do the same for our service economy. That's why Edwards has helped more than 20 national unions organize thousands of workers over the last few years. Union membership can be the difference between a poverty-wage job and middle-class security. Federal law promises workers the right to choose a union, but the law is poorly enforced, full of loopholes, and routinely violated by employers. Edwards supports the Employee Free Choice Act to give workers a real choice in whether to form a union, and making penalties for breaking labor laws tougher and faster, so unions can compete on a level playing field and the right to join a union means something. Edwards also supports banning the permanent replacement of strikers so unions can negotiate fairly.

  23. #23
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcE View Post
    No, I can't. Heard part of it on NPR news, read part of it in a newspaper somewhere, may have even read some of it on this board. If anyone is thinking about voting for him, I'm sure you can find your sources
    You made the claim. It's up to you to provide the sources. There is way too much disinformation these days and I like to rely on actual facts.

    Note: I'm not a John Edwards supporter and if what you said is true, then I would certainly be against him for this. I don't agree it would make him as scary as the current President, but it would certainly be something I'd be strongly opposed to.


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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Machol View Post
    Really? You can defend your right to free speech, assembly and all the other rights in the Bill or Rights with a gun? Then why aren't you? The government is eroding these rights more and more every day - and both Republicans and Democrats are complicit in this.

    What are you and your gun doing about this? Do you really think you can stand up to the U.S Government and Military if needed?

    Good luck with that. And I mean it. Because it may just come down to that one day.
    Bring it baby. Don't underestimate the free man.

  25. #25
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k12311997 View Post
    IMHO how you view unions is going to affect how you view the paragraph from Edward's site.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by k12311997 View Post
    I believe unions are a large part of the reason that america is unable to compete in the global market place.
    Partially agree. Most of the unions in the 60s, 70s and early 80s were definitely corrupt and partly responsible for America's decline in manufacturing (in addition to corporate mismangement.) They are large part of why Japanese automakers became so successful.

    However the real problem today is not Unions which are essentially powerless now. The problem is that someone is China will work and do the same job as an American for $1-2/day. Even if all the Unions were magically gone overnight, that would have absolutely no effect at all on the loss of American jobs.

    Without direct U.S. Government intervention it seems that the only thing thing we can do to complete with that is to lower our wages and standard of living. I have yet to hear of anyone come up with a truly practical solution to globalization that does not involve a substantial decline in American wages and standard of living.

    As for Unions, I agree they had too much power at one time, but now the pendulum has swung too far in favor of Global Corporations that couldn't care less about American workers and jobs.


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