Innovations Help

[HarryChiling]

Is there any way of setting the Trace Format Negotiations in Innovations to always choose format #1?

I would like to pull the radius data from a trace in ASCII Absolute format so that I could manipulate the data in a custom program.

And is it possible to limit the trace points from the tracer through the Innovations software example:

TRCFMT=1;360;E;R;F<CR/LF>

Basically can I tell the tracer how many data points I want in this case at every 1^o instead of whatever amoutn of datapoints it automatically traces? Or do I have to extrapolate the data from the datapoints available?

[shanbaum]

Is there any way of setting the Trace Format Negotiations in Innovations to always choose format #1?

I would like to pull the radius data from a trace in ASCII Absolute format so that I could manipulate the data in a custom program.

The more sensible way to do that is to have Innovations output a text file upon receipt of the tracing. The text file is invariably ASCII format - that's required by the standard. Format #1 isn't a sensible way to do the acual communications over serial connections.

Innovations' OMA interface is configured in a file in the "Shared Path" (usually Program Files\Innovations\Data) named OMA.INI. Either set (or add) the following record to the [General] section:

SaveTrcAscii=1

... and you'll get a file in the Output Path containing the tracing as received, but in format #1 (well, with one other difference: the tracing in the file will always look as though two sides were sent, even if only one side was actually sent. That's necessary for VisionWeb to accept the file).

And is it possible to limit the trace points from the tracer through the Innovations software example:

TRCFMT=1;360;E;R;F<CR/LF>

Basically can I tell the tracer how many data points I want in this case at every 1^o instead of whatever amoutn of datapoints it automatically traces? Or do I have to extrapolate the data from the datapoints available?

OMA tracers can propose any number of trace formats, and Innovations can be set to choose any of those proposed. However, the trace file output is always expressed in the number of points received from the tracer. When some other device requests a tracing requiring a different number of points, that conversion is done dynamically.

Since you like programming challenges (at least, that's my impression), you could write a program that imitates a edger (for example) and requests any number of points in any of the standard formats...

[MarcE]

I have nothing to say, I just wanted to mark this thread.

[HarryChiling]

So to get the number of specified points I would have to request that from the tracer as if I was an edger for example.

Thanks shanbaum, I understand that the #1 format isn't the most efficient, but it is the most humany readable one so it would be a heck of a lot simpler to manipulate the data this way. (for me anyway)

So would I request the format in the request packet in the TRCFMT packet.

so:

<FS>REQ=INI<CR/LF>
<RS>
<GS>

Then when I get a acknowledgement packet back with a status of "14", I send back:

<ACK>
<FS>ANS=INI<CR/LF>
DEV=EDG<CR/LF>
VEN=HC<CR/LF>
MODEL=BIGDOG<CR/LF> ok maybe not the BIGDOG, but it could be:D
TRCFMT=1;360;E;R<CR/LF>
<RS>
<GS>

As long as I only send the one trace format and since all devices need to support format 1 that would force the tracer to send back format 1 data and the 360 would force it send back only 360 points (the radius for every degree), right?

[shanbaum]

So to get the number of specified points I would have to request that from the tracer as if I was an edger for example.

Thanks shanbaum, I understand that the #1 format isn't the most efficient, but it is the most humany readable one so it would be a heck of a lot simpler to manipulate the data this way. (for me anyway)

So would I request the format in the request packet in the TRCFMT packet.

so:

<FS>REQ=INI<CR/LF>
<RS>
<GS>

Then when I get a acknowledgement packet back with a status of "14", I send back:

<ACK>
<FS>ANS=INI<CR/LF>
DEV=EDG<CR/LF>
VEN=HC<CR/LF>
MODEL=BIGDOG<CR/LF> ok maybe not the BIGDOG, but it could be:D
TRCFMT=1;360;E;R<CR/LF>
<RS>
<GS>

As long as I only send the one trace format and since all devices need to support format 1 that would force the tracer to send back format 1 data and the 360 would force it send back only 360 points (the radius for every degree), right?

You couldn't "request it from the tracer" - the OMA standard operates between devices and hosts - not between devices and other devices. So when I suggested imitating an edger, I meant making an edger request to Innovations. For your purposes, rather than doing initialization, you could make a "preset" request, like this:

<FS>REQ=EDG<CR/LF>
JOB=123
TRCFMT=1;360;E;R
ZFMT=0
<RS>
<GS>

It's possible - in fact, common - to list more than one format, but it's not necessary. If you made this request to Innovations, you'd get back what you're looking for (assuming you've done a tracing for job 123), regardless of the number of points or format sent by the tracer in the first place.

[HarryChiling]

Gotcha, thanks shanbaum. That's really helpfull. I'll try a few things and post back. So then does innovations extrapolate the points I am looking for or does the tracer send so many data points that it becomes unnecesary as the data points would already be there?

[shanbaum]

Gotcha, thanks shanbaum. That's really helpfull. I'll try a few things and post back. So then does innovations extrapolate the points I am looking for or does the tracer send so many data points that it becomes unnecesary as the data points would already be there?

Innovations does such interpolations as are necessary to provide the required number of points. These days, tracers send 400, 500, 512, 800, and 1000 points (at least, that's what I recall off the top of my head). They generally measure a lot more than they send.

But if you ask for 360, you'll get 360, even if the tracing was originally transmitted from an old Weco tracer that sent 128 points.

[MIOPE]

Just found this interesting old post.
<FS>REQ=EDG<CR/LF>
JOB=123
TRCFMT=1;360;E;R
ZFMT=0
<RS>
<GS>

Has a question. ¿How is this request send to Innovations?

[shanbaum]

Just found this interesting old post.
<FS>REQ=EDG<CR/LF>
JOB=123
TRCFMT=1;360;E;R
ZFMT=0
<RS>
<GS>

Has a question. ¿How is this request send to Innovations?

Via either a serial or TCP connection as described in the Vision Council Data Communications Standard.

[MIOPE]

Thank, i just checked the information at Vision Council Data Communications.
Many years ago i used TSM-30 and remmenber that there was something called hostsim that let me emulate a tracer or a edger but the number of point was preset.
I was wondering if there is a software that can be used to comunicate with Innovations and request the data.

[shanbaum]

It is not clear to me what you're looking for. If you have Innovations, you should contact our support team; they can help you accomplish your requirements.

Old Weco machines do not support the standard; new ones do. If you have old machines, those are still supported by Innovations, and the new ones (like all machines that use the standard interface) certainly are.

[MIOPE]

I have (3) Weco 430(could be converted to OMA) and one CNC90 (Can not be converted to OMA) connected via current loop using the old tsm30 board on a old computer (with isa slot) running windows 98. I order to buy support i need to have a more recent windows which will not run on the old computer. New computers do not have ISA slots. So i will not have current loop. I have decided to keep the old computer untill it die and then i will see what i can do. I has been trying to find a new interface that replaces the old tsm30 card but has not have luck jet. Once you told me that those cards only need the Isa slot to get 5 volts of current. One option is to modify the card and supply the 5 volts with two cables connected to it. I has this option as the last one. In the mean time "If it is working why fix it".
I has been needing a software to modify the shape of a trace (more than what tracermanager do) and has not found it. The oma file is plain text and if the shape has 360 points, each one would be 1 degree (i expect it it this way) so i could easily play with this data.

[shanbaum]

I cannot recall if the CNC-90 was ever made OMA compliant; for a while Weco used the "DVI" protocol, and I would have expected the CNC-90 to at least support the DVI protocol, which is supported in Innovations.

Someone in the UK (as I recall) was making a current loop board in a plastic case with a brick-style power supply a few years ago, but I don't know if that's still available. Coburn decided to stop making the boards when ISA was obsoleted - around a decade ago.

The trace file output from Innovations is 400 points - only because that was the number of points in the old Gerber Output format, and was one of the numbers of points provided by Essilor tracers. I don't really see how manipulating tracings in 0.9 degree increments is more complicated than using 1 degree increments. If you're going to manipulate tracings, you probably need to be able to interpolate "missing" points in any case.

[MIOPE]

The CNC-90 is not OMA compatible and that is why i need current loop. For CR-39 the CNC-90 is prefered by the workers. In fact, i am trying to buy another used CNC-90 because 40% of the jobs we bevel are CR-39 and the one we have is always busy. The Weco 430 is Oma compatible on certain versions of software. Mine has that older software installed to be able to switch to Oma in case the old tsm-30 card dies.
You are right, i thing i can use those 400 point and i do not need the 360 if i use the 0.9 degree increment. Thanks for that tip.
I will play with that.

[shanbaum]

You might try to find out if the CNC-90 supports the DVI protocol, which is also a serial protocol - I'm thinking that it can - that would be a way to avoid using the current loop, should that become too troublesome.