New Employees

[Nettie]

Lets say you hire a new employee. This employee has a combined 10 years of optical experience. 4 weeks into the job this new employee has had 2 complaints, melted 2 frames, and has had everything repeated 60 times and STILL tells you "you never showed me that". Good God.

Am I wrong to want to get rid of this person? I have trained several with NO experience and they usually have most of it down by the 4th week. How long do you give someone to prove they're not a complete moron?

[chip anderson]

Always hire on a probationary basis. Usually 6 weeks to 90 days. If at any time during that period the work or worker does not measure up to standards, can them.

Chip

[Fezz]

How long do you give someone to prove they're not a complete moron?

Lifes way to short to deal with morons. This one seems like a first class moron....cut 'em loose!

Document, document, document!

Good luck.


:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

[Framebender]

What Fezz said!! Especially the document, document, document!!

:cheers:

[DragonLensmanWV]

We hire on a 90-day probation. You do (at least now in this age) have to document your reasons because you might run into a wrongful dismissal suit or unemployment hassles.
Some people have not made the 90 days.

[Nettie]

I gave this person a 30 day review and was very honest with them. Instead of taking the constructive criticsm to heart and trying to improve, this person now mopes around like Eeyore (sp?) and is having a big ole pity party. They say things like "Gosh (says GOSH a LOT!!) I sure thought I was doing a good job but I guess I am just not cutting it" and this is in front of coworkers. I said "Here are your options. 1. Do better and show me you want to work here. 2. Whine and mope and feel sorry for yourself. Which option do you think is best?" This person stood there and HAD TO THINK ABOUT IT!!!
I just always want to be fair. There will never be an employee of mine that can't say I didn't give them every chance.

How many of you have had to let someone go?

[chip anderson]

If you cut them loose why are they still there moping. The trial period is for them to prove themselves worthy or unworthy. You don't have to keep them for the full trial period if they prove themselves unworthy. At best give them two weeks pay and say "good bye".

Chip

[cocoisland58]

If you cut them loose why are they still there moping. The trial period is for them to prove themselves worthy or unworthy. You don't have to keep them for the full trial period if they prove themselves unworthy. At best give them two weeks pay and say "good bye".

Chip

How about just "It's not working out." Who gets two weeks pay when they get canned unless they have a contract that states they do? This person highly misrepresented themselves as qualified for the job and sometimes this happens. Employment is at the will of the employer.

[Ph0t0n]

Business 101 Mistake Mo. 1. – Not firing bad employees. These people ultimately bring the entire business down with their destructive attitude and demeanor that is contrary to the core of the business. Get some balls and get rid of them, life is too short and your customers don’t deserve the poor service and attitude they exude.

[HarryChiling]

Unfortunately time is not an indicator of talent. I know quite a few dinosaurs that don't have a clue as to what they are doing. In this business you will find that.

[Johns]

Business 101 Mistake Mo. 1. – Not firing bad employees.

Truer words were never posted!:cheers:

The longer you keep them, the more he's going to think he's "enititled" to a job.

[DragonLensmanWV]

Truer words were never posted!:cheers:

The longer you keep them, the more he's going to think he's "enititled" to a job.

Boy, don't I know that! When I had to take over here as general manager I gave a long-time (25 years) employee (and friend) the chance to not PO customers. The previous manager(and the Doctor) had fielded a hundred complaints about him over those years, but ignored it because he actually was very nice to many and he did bring people in to see him. But he had a patience problem with people, especially people that are ignorant of eyeglasses. Of course, that's a lot of people and we're supposed to enlighten them, not talk down and loud to them. Three strikes, he was out, though it cost me several weeks of sleep.
Otherwise in my job as lab manager, I had fired several people over the years, one guy twice.

[chip anderson]

As to the two weeks pay. In the South this is pretty much always done as a courtesy (unless the employee only lasted less than an week). Of course for the most part we don't have contracts here, very few unions and the employee "serves at the pleasure of the employer" (right to work state).
Or maybe we just ain't quite as tight with our money as you Yankees.

Chip

[Nettie]

I actually have a great excuse as to why he is not gone yet.
I had a day off, (imagine that) so i go boating with my hubby, kids, & nephew who is visiting from NC. I get on big tube with nephew and tell hubby to go SUPERFAST. Of course huuby complies. We hit the wake and both fly off. While flying off, nephews elbow meets my eyelid and makes a nice big 1 1/2 inch gash in it.

They took all 6 stitches out yesterday and I am back to work this weekend, now that I can actually open my eye and it isn't bruised anymore. When crap such as this happens, you wait to get rid of your help until you physically can.

Good story? Well it's all true!
http://www.optiboard.com/forums/atta...1&d=1179512964



see my right eye? That's after I got the bleeding to stop and we are heading off the lake to the ER. FUN!!

[Snitgirl]

Nettie,

From what you've posted, its sounds pretty fair and you let it go on a lot longer than most.

If this is the way they are acting now (whoa is me) after you've spoken to them, just think, it will always be like that. UGH!!! Who wants to deal with that?

I was taught when it comes to employees:

"IF YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE PERSON, THEN CHANGE THE PERSON"

Good luck Nettie, I'm sure you will make the right decision.:)

[rbaker]

Better be careful if you live in Massachusetts; it’s getting weirderer and wierderer. Must be the influence of our two favorite sons, Teddy “Splash” Kennedy and John “Reporting for Duty” Kerry.

http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/fashion/391792,CST-NWS-size18.article

[optical24/7]

Firing someone isn't usually pleasent. I've only enjoyed it twice..:D But seriously, if it's not working out, it's not working out, and that's all you need to say. Wish them luck in the future, and then let them go. You have a much better reason to not feel bad with this person, because it's performance based, not economic. I've had to fire good people in labs because of slowdowns in orders, (back in the day, orders were way, way down around Thanksgiving, and all through Christmas. I had owners tell me to ax xxxx dollars from employment...not fun letting good people go at Christmas.....)

[cocoisland58]

As to the two weeks pay. In the South this is pretty much always done as a courtesy (unless the employee only lasted less than an week). Of course for the most part we don't have contracts here, very few unions and the employee "serves at the pleasure of the employer" (right to work state).
Or maybe we just ain't quite as tight with our money as you Yankees.

Chip

To be canned and given two weeks paid vacation at the same time. Yee Hah! I'm moving south. Up here it is sometimes customary to tell them not to let the door hit them on the way out. We ain't tight. We're just practical and besides if they have worked long enough they get unemployment.

[mullo]

At least you have the 90 day probationary period to deal with. I would say let them go.....the 30 day review gave the employee a chance to redeem themselves but they chose not to. I usually give a 60 day also, and don't let it get to 90 days......they made their bed and they can sleep in it.

Don't feel bad.....you gave the employee a chance.

[chip anderson]

Why keep an incompetent employee who seems unimprovable 5 minites? The 30 or 60 or 90 day trial period does not obligate the employer to retain the employee. Just to review the employees capabilties at the end of this period if he is still there by either his choice or the employers.
If you feel any employee is a detriment to your business you have no obligation to keep them at all. If the employee is of long standing and has a problem (like physical, emotional or mental) that you feel you can deal with and help or improve with professional help this is one thing especially if friendship has evolved.
But a worthless trainee, why the wimpism about getting rid of them before they do some real damage?

Chip

I haven't ever heard of a golden parachute at the trainee level.

[GOS_Queen]

I gave this person a 30 day review and was very honest with them. Instead of taking the constructive criticsm to heart and trying to improve, this person now mopes around like Eeyore (sp?) and is having a big ole pity party. They say things like "Gosh (says GOSH a LOT!!) I sure thought I was doing a good job but I guess I am just not cutting it" and this is in front of coworkers. I said "Here are your options. 1. Do better and show me you want to work here. 2. Whine and mope and feel sorry for yourself. Which option do you think is best?" This person stood there and HAD TO THINK ABOUT IT!!!
I just always want to be fair. There will never be an employee of mine that can't say I didn't give them every chance.

How many of you have had to let someone go?

I think that's great you have given a 30 day review - the performance (or lack thereof) is now documented. Now you have something specific and measurable to back up your reason to help him find another employer :shiner:

In my opinion, too many managers do not set the expectations early on for performance and when the situation becomes totally intolerable and the person is finally fired, the person is like "what? I thought I was doing fine?"

He's had his chance ... it's time to part company ... (and it's never fun to fire someone :( )

[Nettie]

I appreciate all of your positive feedback. It will not be a fun task, but I don't feel so guilty anymore. I have to put the needs of my business first. And my business don't need no bad employee. (eloquent ain't I?)

[GOS_Queen]

I appreciate all of your positive feedback. It will not be a fun task, but I don't feel so guilty anymore. I have to put the needs of my business first. And my business don't need no bad employee. (eloquent ain't I?)

If you've never actually terminated someone before (and even if you have) I've found it helpful to:

1) write out the termination statement (I like to keep the tone objective and based on facts - stay away from "you haven't blah blah" and more like "joe's performance has not shown improvement").

2) often, the (soon to be "former") employee starts to argue and make excuses or will often resort to bringing up other peoples performance (or their perception of their performance). I have found it helpful to say something like "We are hear to discuss your perfomance" and go back to the topic at hand.

If you have access to an HR department, that's awesome, they can help you review anything you've written ... also, check your state's laws in regards to having the final paycheck ready.

[Barry Santini]

You've hired an employee who has 10 years of *6 months experience*

FWIW

Barry

[HarryChiling]

You've hired an employee who has 10 years of *6 months experience*

Nice way of putting it.