Essilor's new Pal exclusive to Vision Source

[Fezz]

Varilux Comfort gained market share simply because it has a patented design which out-performs other PAL designs.

This is a very interesting statement. I want everybody to re-read that above statement.


Ok....now lets look into that a little more.

1.) "out-performs other PAL designs" -- says who?

2.) What other PAL designs does it outperform.

3.) Does it "out-perform" just in its overall quality? Or does it "out-perform" do to sales.

4.) How many of Essilors other PAL designs does it "out-perform"?

5.) I just re-read one of Dr. Sheedy's progressive lens reports. I think Dr. Sheedy has provided a valuable measurement of progressives and the overall ratings. I find it almost amusing how few PAL designs that Varilux Comfort doesn't "out-perform".

6.) I wonder if its really just the Marketing BS that "out-performs" other PALs?


Pete also makes the statement that the "Varilux Comfort is still the world's most prescribed PALS"

Should one then conclude, by the above statement, that all of Essilors PAL designs since the introduction of the Varilux Comfort, are no better than a outdated Varilux Comfort design?

How are we to believe the BS that Essilor continues to spew about how much better, fantastic, life altering, and great all of their newer PALS are? After all, a fourteen or whatever year old lens design "out-performs other PALS designs"!

Cut the Bull Puckey.

I could go on, but I am afraid that I will not be nearly as controlled and nice if I continue.

[Fezz]

This is soooo true! So many optometrists and optical wholesalers just go with the flow and do what they are told to do. I was very impressed with all of the replys I read concerning Essilor. It is sad that the rich get richer and the poor poorer.

Welcome to the mix Optical Geek. Jump on in...the waters fine!(although a bit muddy and polluted by all of this Big Boy BS being spewed about)

[Fezz]

Essilor relies on their relationship with the private ECP to recommend and deliver their product-.

So that they can then undermine, undercut and stab said private ECP in the back, so they can afford to make "deals" with the very people that the private ECPs are trying to beat.

What a total bunch of Big Business BS.

Come on.....have some integrity.

Do you really believe the words that you are typing?

Do you honestly believe, that we should ...believe?

[Andrew Weiss]

Varilux Comfort continues to outperform "new" competitive designs

Like Fezz, I wonder how much of that statement is based on sales figures. If it is, I also wonder how many of those sales are the result of dispensers like me who keep the patient in the same design they've been wearing unless they complain about it . . .

No doubt the Comfort was a great design in its day, and a good example of a lens that doesn't look as good in hard data as it performs in real life. But really, the Shamir Genesis has smoother and cleaner optics and has such a similar design to the Comfort ;), wouldn't it "outperform" even the Comfort if Shamir had the same marketing force that Essilor does?

We can debate all day whether the Comfort's success is the result of superior design or superior marketing and probably get nowhere.

And Pete, I agree with Fezz about the import of your statement about the Comfort in relation to Essilor's subsequent PALs: there's a clear implication that the Comfort is a better-received lens than Essilor's own Panamic, Ovation, Physio, and Accolade -- a statement with which I would, so far, agree.

[hipoptical]

Essilor has a new division I really like- Partner Laboratories. Essilor purchases an interest in the laboratory- but the laboratory owner retains an interest as well. The result is the laboratory receives access to Essilor resources and efficiencies, which provides ECPs with the type and feel of the services to which they are accustomed.

Essilor relies on their relationship with the private ECP to recommend and deliver their product... (Souring that relationship is the interest of our competitors, which explains a lot of what you read on this forum.)

As for that computer from 1998- if it is still outperforming computers built by other vendors today (and Varilux Comfort continues to outperform "new" competitive designs), I suppose I would look to buy a new version of the same model! Fourteen years after launch, Varilux Comfort is still the world's most prescribed PALs. Its not the marketing (our marketing folks are good, but they're not that good). When Varilux Comfort launched, Essilor was NOT the world's largest supplier of PALs- by far. Varilux Comfort gained market share simply because it has a patented design which out-performs other PAL designs. ECPs who were used to 10-20% non-adapts started fitting Varilux Comfort and realized it was simply a better design.

Are you admitting here that Essilor laboratories do not provide the type of services ECPs are accustomed to?

I haven't seen any posts from your competitors on this thread. That just goes to show that you guys assume too much, and do not listen to the average Joe you claim to support.

You know the old computer will not perform like new versions, and you REALLY know that the Comfort does not "outperform" new lens designs, either. Best selling does not mean best product. It only means that this industry is full of sheep, who follow blindly and do not have the interest, motivation, or whatever it takes to learn about new things and offer the "patient" what is best for their particular life-styles. (And where in this country is it lawful to "PRESCRIBE" a brand?) Essilor gained market share because you convinced the ECP that the chains couldn't get what they could offer... which brings us full-circle back to the original post. You no longer stand for what you claim to do. Any chain can get what I sell in an independent dispensary, and usually offer it for less.

Thanks to Fezz and Andrew for contributing some reason to this insanity.

[joptician]

It reads like hipo and fezz must do lunch together. I do agree with their opinions about comfort and essilor.

Yes, the comfort has huge market share and is easy to dispense without many non-adapts but I think our industry is too lazy or too scared to dispense better lenses. It is much easier to say, "ms. Jones, your Rx has changed slightly and we will use the same lens design as last year since it has worked ok" then take her $$$. What should be done is to say, "ms. Jones, since we saw you last year there have been some tremendous improvements in lens design and performance." Then, give her a snipit of what to expect then tell her that there will be a slight adjustment period but after she will see better than before. I guess many are too scared of that, "I just can't get used to it."

There are 250+ Pals in the US market and there must be no clear winner or winners with a number that high. How about that reasonably priced Image that always ends up at the top of Dr. Sheedy's list? It even has the best name for marketing. "Ms. Jones, how about a Younger Image for you this year?"

[Fezz]

You have a great IMAGE!

JOptician-

Very well said.


Welcome!

:cheers::cheers::cheers:

[drk]

My friends on Optiboard are very mad, here!

1.) Because we are being "marketed to" by lens companies instead of "partnered with". I understand the umbrage, there.

Companies should be careful to have a two-tiered approach: one for the consumer (not to pick on Essilor, but let's use the Muenster-like "Laser surgery on a progressive" as a prime example), and one for the professional that can understand it (for example: "Varilux Physio's digital molding includes aberration control...Our patient preference data show 6/10 patients prefer it to our Panamic design...).

A few links to white papers would be nice, to offset the eye candy in the professional journals.

How about the proliferation of "fuzzy spherical optics picture" side-by-side with "crystal aberration-controlled" picture. Come on! We can all laugh at the low common denominator these ad companies target. Who approves this crap? Aim higher!

2.) Because it is perceived that exclusive access to top-shelf designs by independents is an unwritten agreement in the industry...it keeps independents a step ahead of their competition.

This is understandable, and I don't like losing an edge, either, but the advantage is being diminished every day as consolidation continues. I know ODs who hate Vistakon because of their cut-rate selling to Walmart, for example. Oakley wasn't exactly exclusive, what with being in every SGH on earth, but now the Pearly LC's will be stocking it for sure. "Official Dealer" rings a little hollow, now.

Professionals have to have faith that it's the professional, not the product that will be the ultimate differentiator.

[Andrew Weiss]

How about that reasonably priced Image that always ends up at the top of Dr. Sheedy's list? It even has the best name for marketing. "Ms. Jones, how about a Younger Image for you this year?"

We used to use that years ago when Younger came out with its first blended bifocal -- called, simply, the "Younger Bifocal." "Ms. Jones, why not try a Younger Bifocal?" :D The company certainly has a great name for marketing to presbyopes!

[jcwest94]

Since it appears I am the only one to dispense the lens so far....

From the looks of the discussion nobody will believe what I am saying, however, I have decided to make a futile remark about the lens....

We have only dispensed one lens thus far, so it is far from a big sampling. First, some history on us, We are a VisonSource practice. Second, in the past we have prescribed very few of the Essilor products, we love Zeiss and get better results. We always try the new stuff that come out and always end up back w/ Zeiss.

We want this lens to work for the obvious benefit of the exlusivity/price. However, we have been skeptical of Essilor's newer products.

The patient we tried this on has tried physio, 360, and definityshort and didn't like them as much as older designs like ellipse and comfort. We put her in a GT2 10 days prior to the Truclear, she loved it and it was hands down better than her previous pair w/ the same Rx and frame. When she put on the Truclear, same frame, she handed us the GT2 and said we can keep them. It was instant satisfaction.

I don't know if this will hold true for others, but we have no hesitation trying it on a few more patients. In the past with Essilors other "better than everything" designs we never had such a quick decisive response.

In regards to how this was pitched to us prior to the release. We were told that there was a big fight w/in Essilors ranks about not putting the Verilux name on this lens. The marketing people saw the benefit of giving the lens to VS and the engineers were too proud to give it away. As usual, the marketing people won and this lens is now owned by VS. My understanding is that it was not developed for VS, but developed for Verilux and given to VS. I don't know if anybody will know for sure, but I dont think they could have developed this lens in the amount of time between when the VS managment went to France and when it was announced. That is my speculation.

[Andrew Weiss]

In regards to how this was pitched to us prior to the release. We were told that there was a big fight w/in Essilors ranks about not putting the Verilux name on this lens. The marketing people saw the benefit of giving the lens to VS and the engineers were too proud to give it away. As usual, the marketing people won and this lens is now owned by VS. My understanding is that it was not developed for VS, but developed for Verilux and given to VS. I don't know if anybody will know for sure, but I dont think they could have developed this lens in the amount of time between when the VS managment went to France and when it was announced. That is my speculation.

OK, folks, my VS TruClear HD arrived this morning and I'm wearing it. It's a very nice lens, my hat's off to Essilor on this one. Distance peripheral is clean, intermediate zone is decently wide, reading area is good, optics are clear and stable, peripheral astigmatism is handled reasonably well. No obvious anomolies. I'd say it's a good overall lens.

As to what Dr. West reports: that is what our OD told me also -- that this was a design Essilor had already done, had already made the molds for, but had shelved for some reason. He also said the same thing about the fight within Essilor about giving up this design to VisionSource. It's a good story. But, just for fun, I also looked at the general lens design and just for fun compared it to an Accolade Freedom I have waiting here. Different Rxs, but they look very similar.

So I wonder: is the TruClear HD really an Accolade Freedom under a different name? ;) Whatever it is, it's a very good lens. I'll know more about whether I'll recommend it to our patients after the weekend.

[MarcE]

that this was a design Essilor had already done, had already made the molds for, but had shelved for some reason. So I wonder: is the TruClear HD really an Accolade Freedom under a different name? ;) Whatever it is, it's a very good lens. I'll know more about whether I'll recommend it to our patients after the weekend.

Manufacturers claim that it costs millions to develop a new lens. I don't disagree. Do you think they designed a lens just for Vision Source? No way, too expensive.
When they decided on the Physio design after doing subjective test fittings on thousands of people, what do you think happened to the 2nd place lens design? What happened to the 3rd place design? Fourth? Shamir sells theirs to other lens manufacturers.
Wal-Mart has one of those lenses from Essilor. I don't know if it's exclusive though.
I wonder what Vision Source paid? I wonder what Wal-Mart paid. My guess on the later is $0.

[For-Life]

Wal-Mart has lenses from everyone. At least Essilor renames it so us independents look to carry different products.

[joptician]

I am curious about the markings on the VS/Essilor lens. What identifying marks are they using?

[melvilletim]

so far so good

I have ordered 3 so far of the HD type. they are using VS as the identifier. so far great response, just like Zeiss Individual, only cheaper to purchase. My high cyl pt liked them hands down compared to the gt2 in the same frame and rx. We tested them for a friend of the practice. So far, Definity-No good, Varilux Ellipse- O.K., GT2 great, and the truclear HD was so good she handed me back her GT2 and said I can keep them. She loved the lens that much. Pt is -1.25 -3.00 with a +2.25 add. BTW I am NOT a varilux fan, having dispensed Zeiss for 7 years.