Essilor's new Pal exclusive to Vision Source

[Perry]

Progressive

Alot of interesting disscussion here.

One thing dispensers might want to consider is the fact that
much of your sales V.S. included are to patients with vision
insurance and you are payed at a dramatically different rate
depending on which brand you fit.

In some cases you get a lower fee for fitting lenses that cost
you more. This will wreck your COG.

Dig deep into your insurance manuals and you will discover
which lenses to fit.

[For-Life]

Does Vision Source sell to chains or independents?

[hipoptical]

Vision Source is a buying group.

[For-Life]

Vision Source is a buying group.

and the people who buy from Vision Source are independents or chains?

[joptician]

Vision Source is a buying group of retailers. Or, they are independent retail offices banded together as a group called Vision Source. They are large in number, 300+ and beat up all vendors kind of like what walmart does. I guess in reality, they are no better than Lenscrafters or Eyemasters when compared to the truly independent one office retailer. But, I'm sure you can sign up.

[For-Life]

Vision Source is a buying group of retailers. Or, they are independent retail offices banded together as a group called Vision Source. They are large in number, 300+ and beat up all vendors kind of like what walmart does. I guess in reality, they are no better than Lenscrafters or Eyemasters when compared to the truly independent one office retailer. But, I'm sure you can sign up.

But aren't all independents able to join? Are there any major negatives to joining like Davis Vision?

[melvilletim]

vision source

My reply to joptician is Vision Source is a Buying Group ONLY. My Doc is a true Independant as are most other VS Docs. For you to imply that we are ANYTHING like WalMart or L.C. shows your ignorance of what buying groups really are about. I apologise for being harsh, but having had worked at chain stores for 7 years I really need to clear the air about what vision source is. It is like Vision West in California. We get good pricing with select vendors due to the # of Independant O.D's affiliated with V.S.

[ADO]

My reply to joptician is Vision Source is a Buying Group ONLY. My Doc is a true Independant as are most other VS Docs. For you to imply that we are ANYTHING like WalMart or L.C. shows your ignorance of what buying groups really are about. I apologise for being harsh, but having had worked at chain stores for 7 years I really need to clear the air about what vision source is. It is like Vision West in California. We get good pricing with select vendors due to the # of Independant O.D's affiliated with V.S.

Vision Source is a franchise system owned by TLC. There are about 3 to 4 OD's who are also major stock holders. They are not an insurance company.
To say that Vision Source is like Lens Crafters or EyeMasters is not correct, but it is also not correct to say that VS is like Vision West. Vision West fees are completely different from Vision Source. Members of Vision Source are independent doctors who pay 4 to 6% of their gross revenue to belong to the group. When the doctor signs up with Vision Source they sign a franchise agreement and become a Vision Source doctor. VS offers a buying group component, but their pricing structure is much higher then standard buying groups. If your doctor is using Vision Source just for the cost savings then I would say the savings he is looking at the wrong source for that.
For-Life, it basically boils down to this. If you are looking for savings on your purchases you should take a look at the traditional buying groups. Chances are you will find the savings similar and you won't have to pay the high price to join VS. You will only pay on the things you buy through the buying group. VS says they have a marketing piece where they market all of the VS doctors in your area together. They also have national meetings with plenty of education and team building. If shared marketing, education and team building are your thing then VS may fit that bill. It will be a hefty bill though. I believe you can get all of those pieces separate from VS and save a lot of money.

Yes... I do run a buying group.

[Andrew Weiss]

Ok, let's see if I can get this straight (since I work in a Vision Source office):

1) Vision Source is a franchise of optometrists only. From what I understand, it's one of those groups where you can't just sign up, you have to be asked to join. VS has its own conferences; it gives its member-ODs opportunities to network with each other and gives those newer in practice the opportunity to hook up with a mentor.

2) THERE IS NO PRICE FIXING! As the optician here, I work with the doc to set our lens and frame fees; they are not dictated by VS.

3) To the best of my knowledge, VS doesn't act as "reseller" for special products like the VS progressive. As far as I know, you can't get the VS progressive unless you're a VS member office.

4) The VS progressive has not been approved by VSP. My hunch is that they won't approve it because it's only available to VS member offices.

I know there's at least one other VS doc in this thread, so please tell me if I've messed this up :)

[hipoptical]

VS is a "Chain of Independents" :bbg:

[Andrew Weiss]

VS is a "Chain of Independents" :bbg:

Yep, with all the contradictions that implies

[Christosfer]

Tru Clear HD

Hate to ruin all the Essilor bashers fun, but the fact of the matter is that "white boxing" of product has been around for years. All, let me repeat, ALL lens manufacturers, have "white boxed" products for high volume customers. There are no good guy, bad guy scenarios here as it is just a fact of the normal supply and demand process and an integral part of being in a capalistic economy. It doesn't matter what the lens is; it doesn't matter who the customer is. If you go to any manufacturer and say, "I have the potential to give you "x" number of dollars in business for a private labeled product", the manufacturer will invaribly say yes. It would be financial suicide not to. If Essilor did not do it, there is a long line of manufacturers that would, inclusive of anyone you can think of.

Trust me, manufacturers do not like to be leveraged like this either, but given a situation where the potential to lose much more than what is asked for...what would you do in this situation? Exactly...I thought so. After all, aren't third party programs putting you in the same situation?

Well said. Go to Walgreens or target, the shelves are full of items with their own labels, while the brand name stuff sits right next to it made by the same people.
As for the Tru clear lens, I have wondered the same things; is this thing a Physio? It is only available in cr-39 and Poly, so I have my doubts that it's an accolade. They just launched it in transitions, which, if it were a Physio they could have done right away.

Don't let me stop the black helicopter talk though. God forbid us Opticians get bored with bending frames.
Did you hear that Luxottica is buying Essilor, Zeiss, Shamir and Rodenstock? Supposed to go down with the next full moon. I'm gonna cobble a set of glasses in my garage, see ya later. :hammer:

[ayoco]

don't care if essilor owns stores or not or in usa yet or not but what is connection to;
Essilor OY in Finland, www.essilor.fi
or
Essilor AB Sweden, www.essilor.se

[sharpstick777]

Considering that ELOA labs give VS doctors a big discount as well as an additional rebate, the "private label" progressives and A/R don't strike me as a major change . . .

What concerns me is the subtle pressure that a private label product can create: to give the patient that lower-cost progressive even though one that costs us more may be better suited to the patient's Rx and needs.

Its a slippery slope and if we go down it ourselves, are we any better than Walmart, Costco or LC? Its what they do.

[sharpstick777]

You guys should take some action and wane off Essilor's products if you don't like their business practices. They are not the only game in town although they would like to think so. I was at a conference recently and when asked by an Essilor lab rep why I wasn't giving them more business I told them that by me not giving them more business they could spend more time selling lenses to Walmart.

Love it!