I am a professional eyewear manufacturer in China.
I want to know what the advantage and the bad situation for purchasing from the Chinese factory is from foreign business friend.
In this way, I hope to do better to service.
the advantage and the bad situation for purchasing from the Chinese factory
I am a professional eyewear manufacturer in China.
I want to know what the advantage and the bad situation for purchasing from the Chinese factory is from foreign business friend.
In this way, I hope to do better to service.
Advantage- Cheap frames!
Disadvantage- Cheap frames!!
We have as a patient a well known flute maker who recently opened a factory in China. His relates that the advantage of low costs is balanced by an overall view by the chinese employee that the product (in this case superior hand crafted flutes) is "good enough". He says it's very hard to get through that good enough is not good enough.
I'm sure you'll soon see all kinds of Made in China frames bashing start because we are for the most part the end user of your product and have watched the decline in quality on many well known brands without a proportional drop in price. I know this isn't your fault but we find it very frustrating.
I'm also old enough to remember however the fun we made of cheap Japanese products and look what they did in a couple of generations!
I would love to see all plastic frames made with 2 or 3 millimeters added to the hinged end so when lenses are inserted the temples still exert some pressure over the ears instead of splaying out. This pet peeve of mine has been around since the industry moved from zyl to injection moldedIf the temples are too tight we have tools that let us file the mitered end accordingly.
I am going to just leave this one alone for today.Originally Posted by aokoptical
Adam
Old enough..........................
Dear Uncle Fester..............Me too am old enough the crappy garbage the Japanese made in the 1950's. From cars to binoculars everything was cheap and also cheaply made. Instead of screwing the prisms into the binoculars so they could be adjusted when the binoculars got a hard knock.........they glued them in.
However these days it is different when the Chinese are concerned. The European manufacturers moved their manufacturing equipment to China a few years back along with some of their top employees for proper training on how to operate these machines.
The Chinese had a different start to produce optical items from frames to lenses. Even you beloved big corporations in the lens and frame business have done it, there are no more frames and lenses made in the US and Europe (with the exception of a few smaller ones).
They have produced the frames that you have been selling already for a few years in China, but have sold them under the names you all respect and like.
Some Chinese factories are also independent, work with the same type equipment and produce frames which are cheap to buy, but made on European type machinery, (maybe now also made in China). These frames and lenses are mostly top quality, but cheaper because the cost of lab-our is so much lower.
In Europe there are many independent labs that have closed down and are on the way of doing it because the large lens corporations have and are taking over this niche of the market.
The machinery is being sold to Thailand and India which is now the next competitor to China.
Your frames and lenses might be cheap in the sense of monetary funds but not quality and you should not compare them to the Japanese of 50 years ago.
The advantage ia cheap disposable consumer goods.
The bad situation is domestic unemployment, lengthy ordering times and unavailability of spare parts, an environment damaged by our throwaway culture, and a guilty conscience about human rights abuses in China.
Exception: OAKLEY!
Barry
Shuron!
DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."
Chris,
I think Uncle Fester was referring to the quality of the output from these factories. The story he relates -- about the flute-maker who opened a factory in China -- is one I know well; he was one of my patients when I worked with Fester. The dilemma our flute-maker encountered was the tendency of his Chinese workers to settle for "good" quality instead of "excellent" quality. He found he not only had to train them, he also had to go over to China every 3-4 months to spend time at the factory, re-train them to the quality standards he wants, and in some cases redo some of the work himself. From what I understand, this is, even some years along, an ongoing process.
I have no doubt the machinery they're using is what you say it is. Do the folks running the machines have the same quality orientation as the folks who worked in the old factories in Italy, Germany, France, etc?
I wonder whether the major optical companies, whether based in Europe or the US, spend that kind of time ensuring "excellent" quality control. I find great variations in quality in the Chinese frame product we handle.
Andrew
"One must remember that at the end of the road, there is a path" --- Fortune Cookie
Uncle Fester..................
My son who has a steel supply company started to work with the chines about 6 years ago. They made pre-cast specialty pieces that were of terrible quality, it took him three years and many trips to China and he got them where he wanted to turn out first quality pieces.
They are very willing to learn and want to succeed.
Your favorite optical company Essilor has just about everything done in the far east. Do you question their quality, they dint even give you the price break they are getting from manufacturing in those places.
Ir you have problems with frames just go to another one who known what you want in the way of quality. they will do it or get it for you.
I just hope no one here confuses "designed in" with "made in," because virtually everything I sell was made in China.
True, Oakley is made in the U.S., and if you ask me Oakley is over-priced tacky crap. I wouldn't be caught dead in a pair of Oakleys--unless I'd already grown a cop mustache and taken to wearing spandex. Oakley just screams middle class to me, maybe to others it's different.
What's wrong with middle class? :D
Adam
Hey..thats my work uniform your making fun of Buddy!
;)
Hey fester,
Do you remember the "high fashion" napaj frames we used to carry. For those that are unfarmiliar it was Japan backwards and we were not supposed to notice.
Hey Eddie, greetings from sunny Raleigh!
I'm sure Fester remembers those; I sure do :bbg:
And Chris: despite my employer's insistence that I use Essilor labs, I am NOT a fan; as far as I'm concerned, their best progressive lenses have been the Comfort (designed for them by Shamir, I believe) and the Definity (which they bought from J&J).
Andrew
"One must remember that at the end of the road, there is a path" --- Fortune Cookie
I see many brands that have relocated their manufacturing to China. I see the advantage from the brands point: lower costs. Although it seems as prices have not declined from the middleman. Someone is making a bunch of $$$ & yet we pay the same if not higher $$$.
China appears very young, I believe that $$$ will come into line at some point as well as quality & SUPPLY (look at the B/O's). I am also very concerned with the enviroment; Do they have ISO standards? I have read in the news far to many of their rivers are being highly polluted. It seems the almighty $$$ is the only concern...
Sv
Me too! :D
Have prices gone down???????????????????//
They own J&J.........so they can do what they want. Besidea that all the pal's are and look the same.............I might get some opposition on that one.............................and mosty of them are made in the far east and it does not matter which one of the big corporations ity it is.
Do you actually believe that they cost them the same few cents they did when they made them in their own factories in the USA?????????????
Have they passed any of these major savings along to you............I bet you a sweet pie, that they have not, you are still paying the same amopunt as before or more. Check your price list's 2-3 years back.
Gee guys, I hate to break your hearts, but let me tell you a secret...
Oakley Is Made In China!
Not all of it, but a good percentage of Oakleys are now made in China. Go ahead, pick up an Oakley. Remember how they all said "Made In USA" in huge letters? Notice how some don't have any country of origin? Those are the Chinese ones. I posted a thread about 2 years ago here, and it was later cofirmed by Oakley - they are making more and more in China. Now they're ready for WalMart!
I know of at least two companies where their product is produced and manufactured in Japan, and just by working with these items you can tell the difference. These lines are Sama and Toki....all 100 percent manufactured in Japan. They may cost me a little more, and cost the customer a little more, but it is a quality product that I know I am not getting ripped off or ripping somebody off.
I looked into manufacturing a few years back, and there is a secret to knowing when a frame is actually MADE in Japan, or just assembled there. And if a frame says on it, MADE IN JAPAN or HANDMADE IN JAPAN, then those frames are produced in Japan, by international law you cannot put that on a frame if it is not fully produced there. A trick a lot of these companies use now is actually getting the frames produced in China and having it assembled in Japan, and at that point you have to put FRAME JAPAN on it, that is a tactic used by a lot of companies out there these days. If a company does not put anything on a frame, it is made in China, and if a company just puts a country name on it, like PARIS or something, it is also made in china. But for a frame to be made in a country, is has to clearly state MADE IN (whatever country) on the frame.
Hope that helps clear up some confusion and deception.
EO
Johns: <<Not all of it, but a good percentage of Oakleys are now made in China. Go ahead, pick up an Oakley. Remember how they all said "Made In USA" in huge letters? Notice how some don't have any country of origin? Those are the Chinese ones.>>
The majority of Oakley eyewear is made in the US. Duly noted that the % has fallen over time but still is a big majority. Also of note the rules for "made in US" are different from "made in XXXX (other country)". There are cases where 95% of work and parts are made in the US but still cannot qualify for "made in US". The FTC sets the rules for "made in US" and US Customs controls "made in XXXX". The rules are different. The absence of a country of origin - if rules are followed - indicates the product was made in the US and not imported but does not meet all the FTC rules.
If you think a product is made in China and not marked as such, inform US Customs. If product is marked "made in US" but you think it is not, inform the FTC. Also inform your Congressman and Senators, especially if democrats.
There is mismarking. There is less than many believe.
Mike Schaus
My concern has always been the fear of being ripped off. I have friends in other industries who have had very bad experiences with dealing with Chinese companies. I have been told that a lot of theses companies are sort of like gypsies. They set up shop, start up, change names, change owners, switch addresses, whatever. I am worried also that the frames I am shown at, lets say Expo, are not really the frames that I will get. It has been told to me that some companies show souped up, high quality samples and the tin foil, spaghetti metal frames that you get are total junk.
I really think that there are some great bargains and high value frames being peddled, but I am very leery of doing business of any volume at this point.
But, I can be swayed with lavish gifts, massages, complimentary everything, a facelift, endless kegs of Westmalle Triple, the promise of an Opticians Country Club where exclusive members like Johns, Harry, OPTIDONN, and Bill West can shoot the bull all day with no worries.
Oh yeah, I am not above bribes and such.
Fezz: <<My concern has always been the fear of being ripped off. I have friends in other industries who have had very bad experiences with dealing with Chinese companies. I have been told that a lot of theses companies are sort of like gypsies. They set up shop, start up, change names, change owners, switch addresses, whatever. I am worried also that the frames I am shown at, lets say Expo, are not really the frames that I will get. It has been told to me that some companies show souped up, high quality samples and the tin foil, spaghetti metal frames that you get are total junk.>>
Your concern is logical. Much depends upon the amount of product you can buy and then sell. If it is nominal, direct buying is risky.
The large US and European buyers travel to factories frequently and can evaluate quality and stability.
I have spent extensive time in Chinese frame factories for over 15 years and have seen a wide range of quality. The trend however is very positive. The best new frame factories being built in the world are being built in China.
If one looked at a range of unmarked frames made in Italy, Japan and the good factories in China, even experienced frame buyers would have difficulty correctly picking which are made in China. There are frames made in Europe that are not as good as those made in the better factories in China.
Mike Schaus
Impact500-
Thanks for the insight. You make some very good points.
I must add to the thread:
When you purchase frames from the Big Boys, inspect them. Pay particular attention to the spring hinges and solder joints.
Now, compare to some made in China, no-name, lower priced frames. If you compare, you will see that most of the spring hinges are the same, or BETTER, the lower cost frames will seem more "sturdy or rigid", and overall...very well made. I understand that there are so many frames and varying qualities, but really check them out.
I challenge anyone to grab a Liz Claiborne from Safilo(or whatever from them or any other Big Boy) and grab your favorite value priced frame and honestly say that the more expensive frame is "better". My feelings are that they are not and why pay the inflated price?
I got no problem with Chinese made frames. Check what you are buying and don't let the lack of a fancy name, case or well dressed sales rep scare you away from a fantastic value.
Sinking in.....................
I got no problem with Chinese made frames. Check what you are buying and don't let the lack of a fancy name, case or well dressed sales rep scare you away from a fantastic value.
I am glad that the thought is finally sinking in. Up to not long ago threads dealing with this theme always ended by declaring chinese goods as garbage, while opticians bought brand frames at high prices also made in China.
I think Adam and I should be praised for staying out of this discussion. :bbg:
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