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Thread: National Union for Opticians

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter rdcoach5's Avatar
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    National Union for Opticians

    What do our leading Opticians think about a national union for opticians which would naturally lead to national licensure? To my knowledge this has never been tried.For this to work, lab opticians would also be included in a different category than dispensing opticians and so would a different category for contact lens dispensing opticians. Just like the other trades, there would be mandatory years of on-the-job training and after hours education followed by testing. Licensed states already have the basics in place for this and we need a national movement. There is no other reason that electricians make at least $10 more per hour on average than opticians. Thoughts?
    Bob Taylor

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    Can't happen. The trade is controlled locally. The local controllers will never relinquish their control.

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    ATO Member OPTIDONN's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be a big fan of having to join a union. I know that there used to be on here in the 70's (I think) but dissolved. I really can't picture it happening.

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    Ophthalmic Optician OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Unions are losing their power, as well as the relevence in every other industry. There's no way they'd even come close to making an impact in the optical industry.

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    Master OptiBoarder rep's Avatar
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    Aready have them in Washington State ( for a long time.)..

    Quote Originally Posted by rdcoach5 View Post
    What do our leading Opticians think about a national union for opticians which would naturally lead to national licensure? To my knowledge this has never been tried.For this to work, lab opticians would also be included in a different category than dispensing opticians and so would a different category for contact lens dispensing opticians. Just like the other trades, there would be mandatory years of on-the-job training and after hours education followed by testing. Licensed states already have the basics in place for this and we need a national movement. There is no other reason that electricians make at least $10 more per hour on average than opticians. Thoughts?
    Bob Taylor
    Not a big influence on wages.

    They are not the answer

    Rep

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    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Labor unions would have nothing to do with national licensing. Each state establishes and enforces its own regulations for opticians, plumbers and Indian chiefs. If you want to see the impact of contemporary labor unions go to France or Italy. It has been tried, countless times. Someone overdoses on stupid pills and tries to start a union.

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    Compulsive Truthteller OptiBoard Gold Supporter Uncle Fester's Avatar
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    IMHO we'd need to hitch our horses to the Teamsters or another well established union. We also would need independants to be on board. This is a bridge to far IMHO.

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    Optimentor Diane's Avatar
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    A big whopping NOOOOO

    I fought against unions in the 70's and would do so again. That is NOT the answer for having a voice. The voice must come from within, and unless enough of us use our OWN voice, we won't go forward.

    Unions promise the sun and moon and don't even deliver a candle. Just take your lighters and matches and give you flint.

    Diane
    Anything worth doing is worth doing well.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Mee too

    Quote Originally Posted by Johns View Post
    Unions are losing their power, as well as the relevence in every other industry. There's no way they'd even come close to making an impact in the optical industry.



    Yeah, what Johns said.


    :cheers::cheers::cheers:

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    Hey, could we also all join the Socialist Workers Party. Could we have divisions where only certian opticians could replace screws, others bend plastic, still others soldier. None of us would have to sweep the floor as that's another Union I'm sure. We could all "donate" out of our dues to the democratic party even if we personally are right wing republicans. If we our leaders find fault with the head man he could disappear.
    Of course we would have a voting block that would claim to be anti-business. We could force suppliers to sell only Union Members!
    We could get all kind of health and retirement benefits, so much so that the industry would cease to be profitable and move to China and Mexico (Oh, it already has hasn't it?).
    Just think of the potential, of all the overtime pay, the politicians what claim to love us but actually fear us.
    Let's all unionize today.

    Chip

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    IMHO we'd need to hitch our horses to the Teamsters or another well established union. We also would need independants to be on board. This is a bridge to far IMHO.
    Some opticians are members of the Teamster's union. This was done to obtain the Teamster's contract and the UAW contracts many years ago.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter rdcoach5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Hey, could we also all join the Socialist Workers Party. Could we have divisions where only certian opticians could replace screws, others bend plastic, still others soldier. None of us would have to sweep the floor as that's another Union I'm sure. We could all "donate" out of our dues to the democratic party even if we personally are right wing republicans. If we our leaders find fault with the head man he could disappear.
    Of course we would have a voting block that would claim to be anti-business. We could force suppliers to sell only Union Members!
    We could get all kind of health and retirement benefits, so much so that the industry would cease to be profitable and move to China and Mexico (Oh, it already has hasn't it?).
    Just think of the potential, of all the overtime pay, the politicians what claim to love us but actually fear us.
    Let's all unionize today.

    Chip

    This is such a stupid reponse. You're talking about what happened to manufacturing. We are a service health care profession that cannot be outsouced unless they import opticians from China or somewhere. Are all the Plumbers, carpenters and electricians jobs in danger of moving to
    Taiwan?

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    OptiWizard OptiJim's Avatar
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    Unions did exist when there was more optical goods manufacturing (frames and lenses) in the U.S. Now since most of all that type of work is gone, the unions died out. Also, you compare the number of opticians to plumbers, electricians and contractors. There are WAY more plumbers, electricians and contractors than there are optical workers. Also, as Rbaker stated, each State regulates its own "health service" regulations. I doubt they are about to give that up. Anyway, good thought, just about 50 years too late. I just don't ever see it happening.
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    Encore:

    That's why the frame and lens manufactureing are gone! I have seen dozens of manufactureing plants in my home state that were doing fine, had the highest wages in the industry already in furniture mfg, moble home mfg., aerospace mfg, etc., unionise and shortly the whole industry moved to another state or out of the country. As Fleetwood mobile holmes, and a host of others (behind closed doors of course) why they left Mississippi.

    Chip
    Last edited by chip anderson; 04-01-2007 at 09:07 AM.

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    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    And what have Eyecare Professionals and the Optical Industry 'media' been doing while thousands of American jobs were slashed and relocated to cheap foreign labor?

    Who has protested this with your vendors?

    Who has supported vendors that have kept American jobs instead of outsourcing them?

    Which 'media' outlets have reported on the devasting impact this outsourcing has had on thousands of American families, including my own? Where was the real news reporting on this?

    If you think that the answer is we should always gravitate to the lowest cost manufacturing spots, then welcome to WallyWorld. Your part of the problem.


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    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Redhot Jumper Lets all unionize today.....................

    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    us.
    Let's all unionize today.
    Chip

    General Private Sector Collective Bargaining Legislation


    Jurisdictions

    Proof of Support for Trade Union in Bargaining Unit

    Minimum Support Required for Representation Vote or Certification Without a Vote

    Power to Certify if Unfair Labour Practice by Employer


    Federal

    Signing an application for membership and paying at least $5 to the union for or within the 6 months preceding the application.

    Representation vote: 35%.
    A representation vote is void if less than 35% of eligible employees actually vote.

    Certification without a vote: more than 50%.



    The Board may certify if it considers that, in the absence of the unfair labour practice, the union could reasonably have been expected to have had the support of a majority of employees in the bargaining unit

    The result of a representation vote is determined by a majority of the employees in a bargaining unit who exercise their right to vote.

    Chris Ryser
    ________________________________________
    DLO. NA.IC.I.T.PO

    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    Wink onion

    If you scrap the word Union and form an Association dedicated to a national goal perhaps we would have an impact of some degree.
    Mark ;)

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    Ophthalmic Optician OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Machol View Post
    If you think that the answer is we should always gravitate to the lowest cost manufacturing spots, then welcome to WallyWorld. Your part of the problem.

    I'm always amazed by how many UAW Union workers freely admit they buy all their groceries, hunting gear, auto supplies, clothes, eyeglasses and any other cheaper than cheap item they can fill a shopping cart with...



    at WalMart.


    Everybody is all for higher wages, unless they have to PAY them!!!:hammer:

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter rdcoach5's Avatar
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    Go figure

    Yes, I know a lot of union people voted for George Bush. But most of them didn't .Some of them buy at Wal-Mart but most of them don't have a real choice because the other big box chains have followed Wal-marts lead in order to compete.Opticians have to compete with other licensed opticians but also with the big -box retailers who have stymied state licensing laws that have any real effect.In Ohio, Independent Opticians must be licensed but Optometrists and Ophthalmologists are completely exempt. The big -box retailers are almost exempt as they usually have 1 licensed optician per store .If all Opticians in the state had to be licensed, this would help to increase wages. Ironically, the fact that opticians wages are so low led to the closing of all but one of the state opticianry programs. This has led to a shortage of opticians and ophthalmic techs{ for the same reason).This shortage will lead to higher wages, but not as much as if we had a strict control on education requirements and licensure. I won't mention the "U" word because I am not a socialist. If an association of all optical personel -opticians, optometric and ophthalmic techs could somehow require their own standards,would that have to be a union?
    Bob Taylor

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    Bad address email on file fvc2020's Avatar
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    What an interesting topic of conversation. Here in the Twin Cities I know that there are opticians in a Union. It is with one of the large clinic systems. The reason I know this, is that when I interviewed with them when I first moved here is because they told me. They asked me how I felt about it. I am not a big beliver in Unions, but said if required(and it was)I would do it.

    I didn't get the job based on my lack of belief in the union. I'm really glad I didn't go to work there for several reasons. The union was one of them. The person hiring told me that they have issues with their staff because the union will back the employee in every situation and it was difficult to fire or write some one up. A good example of this is, when I first walked into the clinic the opticians, were all behind a glass partion and no one person greeted me or came out. Not one person was actually working on the floor. The manager told me this was typical and that there was nothing she could do about.

    Just me ten cents, but no unions are not the way to go for opticians

    christina

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    Master OptiBoarder ziggy's Avatar
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    Bob, I understand your thought process,but we opticians cant agree on the need to have every optician certified(ABO/NCLE). We have a national organization, OAA, and I would'nt care to bet that less than 1% of all working in the optical field are members. The only thing that forming a union, or joining an existing one would do is take more money out of our pockets. My 2 cents.
    Paul:cheers:

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    Ophthalmic Optician OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdcoach5 View Post
    Yes, I know a lot of union people voted for George Bush. But most of them didn't .

    Some of them buy at Wal-Mart but most of them don't have a real choice because the other big box chains have followed Wal-marts lead in order to compete.Bob Taylor
    1. George Bush doesn't run WalMart, the Walton family does. Nobody voted for them.

    2. People "don't have a real choice..."? How about all the union shop groceries they DON'T support? That was my choice. They're all for helping someone out with a decent wage, so long as it's them. Why are they shopping at ANY big box? Top help themselves.

    Shop wherever you want, but don't complain about low wages, when you (not you specifically) shop at the "sweat shop" type stores.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter rdcoach5's Avatar
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    Forget Union

    Forget Union.How about association or Guild. call it what you want.Teachers wages have sky rocketed because of union or associations.
    It's interesting that most of the negative positions to this idea come from ownership positions. I'm not even talking about my salary because I'm pretty well compensated compared to the opticians just starting out. When I started, I made what an average teacher did. Now teachers make much, much more. Why? Because of unions. Now, although I think that teachers unions are way too powerful, I think Optical Professionals as a unified group could help us earn a decent wage .

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    Master OptiBoarder ziggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdcoach5 View Post
    Forget Union.How about association or Guild.
    OAA/ state society
    Paul:cheers:

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter DragonLensmanWV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdcoach5 View Post
    This is such a stupid reponse. You're talking about what happened to manufacturing. We are a service health care profession that cannot be outsouced unless they import opticians from China or somewhere. Are all the Plumbers, carpenters and electricians jobs in danger of moving to
    Taiwan?
    Maybe you need to pile your hair up higher so stuff won't go over your head so much. :bbg:
    I think you missed his sarcasm.
    I hope.
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