Sun Sensors

[cj]

OK, I gave Sun Sensors a try and so far I can't see what the big deal is. Am I missing something? My lab broke 2 out of 3. They said the lens material "clumped". Anyone out there know what causes that? I'm not sure if I want to try them again.

[Jeff Trail]

Well I have done about 60 pair and so far have had ZERO problem grinding them.. mainly the problem in the lab is they are not (probably) following the right recomendation when grinding them.. The nice thing about them, atleast from my point is they are in a 1.56 index and I'm getting them for the same price I pay for transitions III's AND selling them for the same price wholesale.. My accounts like it since they can sell it as either a high index or as the regular transition and use the same lens.
The other advantage is it works as well as an xtra active outdoors but get that lighter shade of a III indoors..
Oh and back to the lab.. you HAVE to run it at 14 psi and for only a minute first second fine.. polish is 3 minutes at 16 psi.. same as running a poly or a spectralite.. anything else and you run into problems...
It's like any other lens out there you'll have people who love and some who hate it.. me, as a wholesaler, I tried it it came out well and just added it my list of lens available... BTW we did "run" it incorrectly just to see what would happen (20psi) 1:20 seconds first/second and 3:30 on the polsh same as we run all CR39 and it did wave and had power problems.. So it's simple , run it the way they tell you works best it comes out.. do it how you feel like doing it and "go figure" it didn't come out correctly :-)

Jeff "grind'em if ya got'em" T

[cj]

Thanks for your reply. I will pass it along. I must admit, I'm not knowledgeable in surfacing. Just like to get what I order in correctly.
You've done many more SS than I have. The lower cost of the product may be enticing, but I'm still wary. I didn't like PGX much (ok I've dated myself). SS seems like the same thing without the weight problems. That greenish/gray color looks bad on me. And I tried the Navigator progressive on myself. It felt weird. Maybe I shouldn't be so biased as to my own feelings. I'm comfortable with Transitions. I'll give it a few more trys and see.

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[Jim Seebach]

Hi cj;

I have done maybe twenty or so Sunsensors and not had any trouble. I get them in record time from my lab and edge them myself and have had no trouble. I am beginning to like the Colormatic though, because it stays about 50% dark in the car. Jim

[Clive Noble]

We've dispensed about 15 pairs of Sunsensors, including some very high minus lenses, and as far as the material is concerned, everyone is impressed, and we'll carry on using it; however, the 3 patients with the PALS have all had problems in adapting.
They've all had PALS previously, Comfort, GradalHS and Sola XL and all prefer their own old vision!!!!

Now, I've not used this Navigator design before, but I believe it's not one of the new ones, I'm sure this is the problem.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks, Clive

[Jerry Thornhill]

We have processed about 100pr of Sun Sensors. Out of the 100pr. 30 pair have been Navigators. So far no non adapts on the Navigator. As far as processing goes it works just fine doing it at the same pressures and times as I do all materials except Polycarbonate. Hard Resin, Transition, Spectralite, Sun Sensor, 1.60, Finalite and 1.66 materials are all processed at the same pressure; the same 1st fine time; the same second fine time and the same polish time. No problems just another lens material.

[cj]

Hello Jim S,
Interesting comment about Colormatic. Another new product to check out. Darker is always good, but does it get very clear indoors too? How does it do blocking UV? I just found out that Sun Sensors only blocks 95% UVB. No good. Gotta watch those cancer causing elements you know! The doctors in our practice would kill me if they found out I didn't have full UV protection in everything I dispense.

[Jerry Thornhill]

CJ
I do not know where you got your information about Sun Sensors and UV; but according to the specs published by Corning the lens at 2.0mm has 100% UVB protection and 97.5% UVA at 380nm.
Jerry

[cj]

I stand corrected. Meant UVA.

[Susan Henault]

Now, I've not used this Navigator design before, but I believe it's not one of the new ones, I'm sure this is the problem.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks, Clive[/B]

Actually the Navagator is one of SA's newer progressive designs & I'll echo Jerry in that we've had few if any non-adapts. I wear them myself and actually prefer the Navigator over the Rodenstock life Colormatics that I wear in the exact same style frame, seg ht etc.

When it comes to photochromic performance, the Sunsensors and Colormatics smoke TransIII in terms of depth of color and speed of darkening. The SS does take a little longer to lighten but gets VERY clear when it does. The CM lightens VERY quickly, but doesn't ever get clear enough for me. I have yet to experience anything like 50% transmission in my car with the CMs, more like 20+% on average. I think the problem is that you need direct sun on the lenses (thru a window) to get the 50% performance. How often does that happen when driving? I'd be wary of selling CM to consumers based on this feature, as I myself find that I often need a custom clip-on to drive with them.

Last but certainly not least, definitely check out the new QUANTUM. Transitions does seem to be keeping pace with their competitors' technology in terms of speed especially dark to light & darker color outdoors. However, I think one of the limitations of Trans vs. the SS & CM is that the photochromic agent is still added to the cured lenses or the lens coating after manufacturing. SS & CM photochromics are a part of the entire substrate. What's the advantage? Primarily - stability. I've heard of many instances where Transitions lenses warp or peel over time, when exposed to climates with extreme temp changes. I hypothesize this may be due in part to the fact that the lenses used are not cured to the full hardness they would otherwise be if Transitions were not being applied.

[Jim G]

SunSensors is a fine product that will help to expand the whole market. It is not everything to everybody. Nor, are most products.

The Quantum product is the latest in the progression of products from Transitions who, by the way, created the market with multimillion dollar advertising campaigns. The second entry does not have this expense and can afford to price under the market leader. To me, that's a questionable advantage. Maybe it's my midwestern values but we tend to "go home with the date we brung to the dance."

Regarding the "mid-index." Our testing showed that the substrate was significantly more scratch resistant than "naked" CR-39. Inasmuch as this is the defacto standard, when a material shows less scratch resistance, we automatically add a back-side coating (which also adds to our cost of manufacture). Most mid-index materials are somewhat brittle and have less impact resistance than CR-39. Adding a backside SRC will lower that impact level even more. Add an A/R coating and many mid-index lenses will no longer pass impact. All 1.55 & 1.56 materials we've tested at 1.5 c.t.'s with front and back SRC's and an ARC consistantly fail impact.

[Jim G]

P.S. The Navigator has been available for several years...maybe as many as 5. It is a 3rd gen soft design from Shamir (Israelie supplier). Reasonable good lens (I'm wearing with no difficulty) but not comparable to many of the newer designs.

[karen]

The SS does take a little longer to lighten but gets VERY clear when it does.

Hey Mama! Good to see you here. :) I wear the SS as well as Xtra Active and Trans Brown . I have to say that the SS are my favorite. They get the darkest and they do it quickly. I would rather have a darker lens than have it clear up quickly. I put the Zeiss Super Et on mine and have actually had people ask me if I have lenses in my frame after they have cleared up inside. Also, it has been my experience that people have no trouble adapting to the Navigator. It is an updated design and is more similar to some of the big guns than you might think. I have had lotsof accounts switch from the Comfort and Gradal to this lens and be very happy. Even my dad who is an OD (and the worst patient you ever knew!!) wears it and he had always been the mega Zeiss advocate