Timothy McVeigh

[Cindy Hamlin]

I realize I am opening up a hornet's nest here, but I must vent!

I cannot believe they are trying to put off executing him! I understand civil rights and all, but he had admitted bombing the building and being a mastermind and called the children that died "collateral damage"! I mean come on!

I read last night they feel they can get additional people implicated if they keep him alive. Is it not possible that he acted alone? Is it not conceivable that he is the lone person? Additional people will come to light with or without him. People talk and it will be a matter of time!

I understand there may be others involved, but this piece of scum admitted it, was convicted of it and will (soon please) die for it! I wish it were over for the families of the victims! They suffered that day and are suffering still!

[EyeManFla]

Bag 'em and tag 'em.

The sad part is, most of what he has said about the Federal Government is true!

[mikev]

My opinion has reversed as I've grown
older.

A well placed round fired to prevent lives being
taken is one thing, but the awful deed is already done. More killing won't bring back the dead, although it would initially make some of the families feel better.

This does not mean I'm in favor of less than life
without possibility of parole in a maximum security prison.

But then what kind of opinion would you expect from a crazy mixed up, concealed-carry permitted
vegetarian?

[Diane]

I hope I don't come off too strong on this, but I agree with Cindy. Good that's not too strong. I could be stronger. Inside my heart, I am MUCH stronger.

I've actually taken the approach in the past and still advocate it, personally, that if someone were to stand in front of me with a gun to shoot me and I had one as well, I don't believe that I could take that person's life just to save my own. Let there be another person's life involved and I could do it. Moral decisions come up here with regard to my personal beliefs in afterlife. Not a time for me to elaborate here on that.

Timothy McVeigh has made a conscience decision and now has had what is it now, 6 years to feel remorse, repent, whatever and he stands on his decision. I'm glad I don't have to judge him in the hereafter, or his beliefs now for that matter, but I don't believe he will ever change his feelings. I could be wrong. A lot of prison heart changes can and DO occur. I don't think that will ever happen here.

I also seem to remember Bill Clinton saying something to the effect about "swift justice" for this awful crime against Oklahoma and the people of the United States. Six years is SWIFT? Ok, I suppose definitions are different to different people.

Anyway, I don't give a political or religious opinion on a public forum often....Ya got me on this one. I didn't spill too much of my personal beliefs.

:finger:

Diane

[Night Train]

Maybe it means I am a wimp. But even if it was my own kids I couldn't allow a potential for redemption to be thwarted. Take the case in Texas a few years ago. I can't remember the womans name but if Justice was swift she'd be in hell. Time and grace broght her around.

PS My apologies to my co Clint Eastwood and John Wayne Friends

[chip anderson]

I can see no reason why the taxpayers should be burdened with the expense of maintaining McVey or any other non~rehabilitatable criminal. Hang the .......!

Lose no sleep, I woundn't shoot a dog, unless it was rabid or dangerous, but I wouldn't loose sleep over shooting one that was.

Chip

[stephanie]

Yes it makes me furious!! Kill him!! He certainly did not give his victims their civil rights! I think he gave up his civil rights when he decided to kill those children...and believe me he knew there were kids in that building. He is a murderer and a monster and deserves to die. I know how strong that sounds but like Diane, it is much much stronger in my heart. I also agree with Chip in that we taxpayers should not have to keep his sorry *** with our hard earned tax dollars. He is certainly not worth it.

Steph

[Jo]

Any opinions on why he is stalling? Does he want to take others who are supposedly part of the "conspiracy" down with hime? Is he a fanatic using this to drum up publicity?

[Ney Rojas-Mejia]

:angry: Fry him and let him shovel s--t in hell!

[Corey Nicholls]

Remember the scene in "Brave Heart" where he was hung, drawn, and quartered? I personally think that even this is too good for him!

As someone said earlier, did he give any of those poor soles a chance? Why should anyone give him a chance?

Another two cents worth!

[Suzy W]

It amazes me how much of this was on CNN today.
Personally, I think that he should have been put to death along time ago. He has adimitted to his crime and should now be over and done with. As a taxpayer, I don't believe in paying for years so that some conficted felon can live well and have 3 square meals a day. And, have new movies every weekend.
I am saying this as a person who does visit a max. prision in her job almost every week. I have had many people tell me about their internet, movies, etc....sometimes things that I can not afford to have. And then these people flirt with me, thinking that I will give them "extra special " service. Life inside a prision to the inmate may be awful, but should they have thought about that before the commited the crime? I have fit glasses on inmates that are as young as 16.

Ok, Ok...... guess I'm done venting.... this kind of thing just gets to me.

Suzy

[Blake]

Originally posted by Jo
Any opinions on why he is stalling?

My best guess (and to some extent I'm just parroting the observations of others) is that he's trying to embarrass the Fed's one more time. Let's face it, purposefully or not they screwed the pooch big time by not getting all those files to his lawyers.
Not that those files really made any difference since he had not only been convicted, but had admitted to the bombing. Still, it gave him the opportunity to say "Look what the Federal gov't has done - they held back information! See! I was justified in my hatred of them."

Even Tim McVeigh is entitled to a fair trial, and may make appeals. Since he's been convicted and his appeal denied, it's time to receive his sentence.

Blake

[PAkev]

Our Marchon rep dropped off a poster today with a guy doing a jump kick or something like that.

Without the Flexon frames, this guy is a strong resemblence of Tim Mcveigh.

Unfortunately, Tim wasn't the first and won't be the last to cause unnecessary tragedy. In many countries uncertainty of innocent life is a daily concern. However, it seems that we are more reactive than proactive and therefore end up focusing on what we lost rather than what we have from day to day. I also am NOT condoning McVeigh's actions but realize that something similar will happen somewhere again and try to mentally prepare if I should be involved somehow.

[TReynolds]

:angry:
Far be it from me to question any one else's views or opinion, but, as I've grown older my thoughts have changed as well. As a father whose daughter suffered a capital crime I have no patience what so ever with the likes of mr. mcveigh. I agree he gets a fair trial. Then one and only one appeal, then BANG!!!!!!
Now I know we are all shaped by our experience and part of my bitterness stems from my inability to protect my daughter. However, I don't care if capital punishment doesn't deter crime. At least the ******* involved won't ever commit another crime. I'm happy to say that after ten years of therapy she is living a normal happy life, but, I can't get past the years she lost.

Sorry for the bitter edge, but, that's where I live on the subject of capital crime and lack of punishment.

Tim

[Cindy Hamlin]

I must agree with Blake, Jo. It makes the most sense. He refused to let his former lawyers make any appeals on his behalf and wanted to die (I am sure in his twisted mind he thought with honor). He now has a new set of lawyers and wants to appeal. Surely, he can't feel he has the oppurtunity to succeed. It was the FBI that in his mind caused the bombing (the bombing was his retaliation for Waco and Ruby Ridge), so why not get one final smack at him.

It is the FBI that wants it delayed so they can get more people. I say fry him and the others will come forth eventually.

[hcjilson]

I'm with Mikev on this one and I think it has a lot to do with getting older.( I'm not, however, a vegetarian)
When is was younger I was an advocate of "Have the trial, have the verdict, and immediately execute the sentence, whatever it was.Eyeman said it correctly-Bag em and tag em.
If you re-read the above posts look at all the anger you see.Is it right to kill another person because WE'RE angry? We have no part in this....our anger is because of the tradgedy he caused.McViegh's death will never ease our anger.His death is not even fitting punishment for his crime.Its his escape and thats why he wants it.
A fitting punishment would be to have him remain in that one 8X10 cell for the remainder of his life.Without benifit of any external stimulus.No TV No Books-Nothing to do but think...Now that would be a fitting punishment albeit somewhat unusual and very definitely cruel.

[chip anderson]

I can guarantee Mr. McVey will receive a fitting punishment for his acts. His execution will mearly make this happen a little sooner. And as I said, No one says we must support members of society that are a danger to society.

Are you willing to spend $50,000 of your income (not to mention legal and appeal costs) per year to support such individuals? If I told you your children could not be educated because you needed to take care of poor Mr. McVey and like individuals would you fork out the money. If so, start a fund through your church, don't expect us tax payers to contribute your generosity for you.

Chip

[Darris Chambless]

Howdy from Texas, better known as "The Death Penalty State" :)

Let's get a little bit of politics in here for a minute just to answer a couple of questions I saw on here. First off from the start of his duties John Ashcroft set D-Day for McVeigh at June 11. I don't know about the rest of you but I don't recall ever hearing him change that. Why would he not change his mind? Because even with this new found information he had to review, nothing would exhonorate ole Timmy Boy.

There was a question of why Timby would, after all this time of saying no appeals, now try to postpone his death or get out of the death penalty altogether? Actually it isn't necessarily Timbo that's doing this. It's his lawyers. This is a very visible trial and it gets a lot of media coverage, so as a result Timbob's lawyers jump on that bandwagon to get their names in the marquis lights. They know Timosaurus is going to die anyway so they are, perhaps with his consent, milking this for all it's worth. It's name game at this point and notariety is the prise.

Timmy Schnicklefritz isn't doing any of this since he has no way of doing it in the first place.

So should Timmmmmmmmm die? Nope! He should already be dead.

To my dear Lady Di,

Hi sweety ;) You said

"I've actually taken the approach in the past and still advocate it, personally, that if someone were to stand in front of me with a gun to shoot me and I had one as well, I don't believe that I could take that person's life just to save my own. "

Um, let me ask you a question. If this scenario were you face to face with another, both holding guns and no one else was around, what makes you think that you would only be trying to save your own life? Do you not realize that if you're dead that there would be no one to take care of your children, husband, aging parents, so on and so on? Do you not realize that by taking this other persons life you can in fact be saving the life of others? You are a responsible human being, where the other person isn't. If you're justified I would implore you to do it if put in this position.

Just like in the Timbilly story if it's you against them why should they be allowed to live while you die? They're worthless, you're not. The world doesn't need people like them. The world needs people like YOU!

Just my words of wisdom to cast out among the many ;)

Darris C.

[Maria]

I'm with Harry on this one. Death is a release to someone like that.
You can award a far greater punishment psychologically by keeping him alive and miserable. The sick and twisted bit is that I'd keep putting him in the chair every couple of months, making him think he's going to buy the farm, and then sending him back to the cell :)

Maria 'Put me in charge of the prisons, it'd be enormous fun' K

[EyeManFla]

No, I haven't changed my mind, but consider this.......


In his mind, he is a soldier in the fight against the evil government. He has carried out his duty as he saw it, and as a loyal soldier, he knows that capture and execution is part of the job.............

To keep him alive presents a problem that few want to think about...I like to refer to it as the "Bobby Sands" principle. As long as he remains alive and in 'punishment', he is a symbol. When he is executed, sure, his followers will have a field day....BUT, in time, his name will become nothing more than a footnote in the history books.............

Besides, if he remains alive.....what's to keep a future president who is a bigger a..hole than Clinton from giving him a presidential pardon......

There is more to execution than economics.......

[mullo]

I would say I sort of agree with Harry. That's second to Maria agreeing with him first. However, I would choose a different punishment. Death is too kind, but this is the worst society will allow. I say place him on an deserted island. Cut his achilles tendons and place his food each day on one end of the island and him on the other. Then if and when he reaches it reverse the equation.............Mullo


I still say let the ******* fry!!!!!!!!!!!! :angry:

[Diane]

Darris,

As you said: "Um, let me ask you a question. If this scenario were you face to face with another, both holding guns and no one else was around, what makes you think that you would only be trying to save your own life? Do you not realize that if you're dead that there would be no one to take care of your children, husband, aging parents, so on and so on? Do you not realize that by taking this other persons life you can in fact be saving the life of others? You are a responsible human being, where the other person isn't. If you're justified I would implore you to do it if put in this position.

Just like in the Timbilly story if it's you against them why should they be allowed to live while you die? They're worthless, you're not. The world doesn't need people like them. The world needs people like YOU!

Just my words of wisdom to cast out among the many


That's why you ARE the supreme leader. Maybe you have a point. I'll have to think on this. I've actually thought on it a lot, but I'm open minded.

Take care and have a great weekend.

Diane

[stephanie]

Did you guys here this one?? Timbo said he was sorry! Yea sorry is a really nice word but it doesn't cut it does it? He also said that he doesn't believe in the afterlife but if he finds out there is one he'll just wing it. Ok don't believe you can wing it in the afterlife...and he said if he ends up in hell he will have a lot of company....what makes him think it is going to be fun??? I just had to share that little tid bit with all of you. Hey maybe there are people who can forgive him for this...I am not that big of a person.

Steph

[Pete Hanlin]

I didn't realize Mr. McVeigh had made an apology. I find it interesting that we as a society care whether he apologizes or not. Actions speak louder than words- Timothy McVeigh's actions have demonstrated that he is not a person worthy of inclusion into society.

Now, do we lock him up or do we execute him? Well, I suppose if your purpose is to penalize him, you want to keep him locked away for life (you can't penalize a person after they are dead... ergo, McVeigh's punishment effectively ended at a little after 7:00am yesterday). If you want to enact "justice" or "vengeance," you kill him (justice being the "administration of what is fair" and vengeance being "retaliatory punishment").

Here's my point. I suppose I lean towards justice and vengeance on this one. There is no point to be served in punishing McVeigh (we're not trying to rehabilitate him so he can re-enter society, so what is served by locking him away for life... punishing something without any thought towards rehabilitation is kind of pointless, isn't it?). What are we left with- justice. Timothy McVeigh is a reprobate who took the lives of other human beings. There is no doubt about his guilt, there is nothing to be gained from punishing him. Therefore, you take his life and eliminate a completely worthless member of society.

Sadly, the press finds enough of an audience for this kind of "news" to justify slathering it across our papers and our tv screens. We are a society that seems to be fascinated with the macabre... I happened to catch 48 Hours which interviewed this lady who lost a daughter. Basically, she's quit her marriage, her job, and her life since the tragedy. Without being callous, wouldn't a better tribute to the love you had for your daughter be making the most out of the life you have left rather than wasting the rest of your life living in paralyzing grief?

Pete
PS- Sorry for the rambling. It just seems to me that this event continues to take a toll when we waste time and lives reliving it again and again and again...

[Ney Rojas-Mejia]

Well, I guess this poll is closed. The animal received what he deserved.