combined experience

[optirep]

[quote=
If you are suggesting I take no responsibility in products that I stock, that's horrible. When I used to pick frames out I would look at hinges and solder points and if the quality was poor I just wouldn't purchase them. You would be suprised how many of the so called "hot" frames were also poorly made frames. If my name was a brand, I would be offended by some of the frames these companies were producing.[/quote]

That's not what I meant. Every level of quality can break! If you steer a customer away from a frame that they want and into a better quality frame and that frame breaks the customer may get upset.

[optirep]

This is an example that happend to me:
I bought a Sony computer from best buy. It turned out to be junk and I brought it back to best buy to get it fixed. Best Buy then lost my computer. They let me pick out a brand new one. The sales person told me to get the house computer call VPR because it was better quality and I would get a better product. That computer is now my kids because it has gone in to be repaired 4 times. The VPR line is no longer sold in Best Buy - Just brand names!

[HarryChiling]

I bought a Sony computer from best buy. It turned out to be junk and I brought it back to best buy to get it fixed. Best Buy then lost my computer. They let me pick out a brand new one. The sales person told me to get the house computer call VPR because it was better quality and I would get a better product. That computer is now my kids because it has gone in to be repaired 4 times. The VPR line is no longer sold in Best Buy - Just brand names!

I get what you are saying, but brand name is no longer synonomous with quality. For every example you can give me I can give you a patient that walks into our doors and lays a pair of broken designer frames on the counter and says, "I payed $xxx.xx for these they shouldn't have broken", or "these are XXXXX brand glasses they shouldn't break this easy". These statements are so common place and it shows that the patient has an expectation of quality when they pick up a brand name product. The fault if we are going to call it that lies with manufacturers makeing inferior products and it is only going to hurt the brands.

For example Morell Cottet makes very good frames that are quality and they don't have brands, but they back their frames up with a lifetime warranty. Name a designer brand that can say that.

[optirep]

For example Morell Cottet makes very good frames that are quality and they don't have brands, but they back their frames up with a lifetime warranty. Name a designer brand that can say that.

I would almost bet that the breakage rate of Morell Cottet is not much different than that of any other product. I go into accounts everyday and one person tell me how great quality a line is and then the next place tells me its crap. But anyway the fact is Brand names are selling more and more each year and no name brands(Even the superior quality frames) are selling less.
I'm not saying your right or wrong about anything but brands are selling and people want more and more each year!

[optirep]

[quote=optirep;

[Ory]

It is clear that eyewear is one place where almost anyone can get a brand name item. How many of your Prada (or other brand, I'm not picky) wearers are wearing this season's Prada shoes?

It is the name that is being paid for, plain and simple. Some people erroneously think that a high price equates to quality rather than status and cutting edge style. Yes, I know that many of these brands are getting boring but that's another issue. I think most will agree that the most innovative designs have a name attached and those styles trickle down over the next few months into the no-names.

Harry, I do not include Morell Cottet in that group. I think they're on their way to being an Eyewear Brand just as Silhouette has already done.

[rep]

I get what you are saying, but brand name is no longer synonomous with quality. For every example you can give me I can give you a patient that walks into our doors and lays a pair of broken designer frames on the counter and says, "I payed $xxx.xx for these they shouldn't have broken", or "these are XXXXX brand glasses they shouldn't break this easy". These statements are so common place

In order to evaluate breakage percentages you have to look at how many were sold. Maybe the reason you are seeing all of those designer brands comming in is that there were hundreds of thousands sold versus tens of thousands.

The deffective percentage can be identical but the number hitting the market is higher. Although it seems like there are a lot hitting your front door in reality there may be hundreds of thousands that didn't fail.

Rep

[optirep]

For example Morell Cottet makes very good frames that are quality and they don't have brands, but they back their frames up with a lifetime warranty. Name a designer brand that can say that.

Harry I think its great that you offer your customers a lifetime warranty. Most venders offer a 2 year which is rarley needed because most stores only offer a 1 year. I am seeing more and more customers going to 6 months.

[HarryChiling]

In order to evaluate breakage percentages you have to look at how many were sold. Maybe the reason you are seeing all of those designer brands comming in is that there were hundreds of thousands sold versus tens of thousands.

The deffective percentage can be identical but the number hitting the market is higher. Although it seems like there are a lot hitting your front door in reality there may be hundreds of thousands that didn't fail.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that the name brand frames seem to be focusing less and less on quality. You are missing the point entirely. If it is true that there are hundreds of thousands that didn't failthen why is brekage t biggest reason I hear for frame prices being high.

Harry I think its great that you offer your customers a lifetime warranty. Most venders offer a 2 year which is rarley needed because most stores only offer a 1 year. I am seeing more and more customers going to 6 months.

I no longer work at a practice that offers Morrell Cottet frames. How many of the frames you sell under a designer brand have hinges that connect with a thin wafer of metal that can easily break? How many of your frames have that hinge that has a little metal ball on the inside and is screwed together with a screw no bigger than a nose pad screw? These are examples of poor quality and I have seen the on designer frames as well as no name frame. The difference is I as well as my clients expect more from the name brand frames and that perception is whats fueling people buying name brand products. Someone brought up silhouette's for example that is a name brand that is synonymous with quality, and when people ask for a silhouette it is because they are looking for a good quality frame. Same with flexon, when people walk in the door and ask for flexon it's not because flexon came out with the newest hotest dress in the latest issue of vogue as suggested earlier, but because the product is known as a good quality frame. I take the time to inform all my clients what to look for in a frame. I would much rather have a good quality frame on the client than a name brand. There are times where I will pop the lenses out and explain to the client that now that the logo is off of the lens how else are you going to know that the frame is a XXXX brand frame.

[rep]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that the name brand frames seem to be focusing less and less on quality. If it is true that there are hundreds of thousands that didn't failthen why is brekage t biggest reason I hear for frame prices being high.

I am not ignoring anything, I just don't think that statement is fact.

I cant speak for anyone else, but my frames are all Itallian, no asian product. The crystals are all Swarvoski, no Austrialian. The hinges are strong - none of the thin wire splits you are referencing. ( I even have a 7 barrel hing with brads on one new model. I have not seen that in years.

I don't know who you are talking to but, breakage is the least costly element for us. The cost of frames is tied to licensing fees, materials cost, labor, and advertising. It cost much more to place ads in major magazines instead of 20/20 or Eyecare Business, but it creates consumer demand and that to me is critical.

Do you think frame prices are too high? About half of my accounts think frame prices are too low, for a product that is warranted for two years with a designer endorsement. I think the market is much more diversified in the last 10 years. There is a price category for everyone in this industry.

Rep

[optical24/7]

I would much rather have a good quality frame on the client than a name brand. There are times where I will pop the lenses out and explain to the client that now that the logo is off of the lens how else are you going to know that the frame is a XXXX brand frame.

Harry, I'm on your side. I carry very few designer products. I talk about the quality and what to look for in selecting eyewear. Maybe it's where I'm located, but I get very (and I mean Very) few requests for specific designers. There are plenty of great frames out there without a "Name" on them.

[optirep]

Someone brought up silhouette's for example that is a name brand that is synonymous with quality, and when people ask for a silhouette it is because they are looking for a good quality frame. Same with flexon, when people walk in the door and ask for flexon it's not because flexon came out with the newest hotest dress in the latest issue of vogue as suggested earlier, but because the product is known as a good quality frame. I take the time to inform all my clients what to look for in a frame. I would much rather have a good quality frame on the client than a name brand. There are times where I will pop the lenses out and explain to the client that now that the logo is off of the lens how else are you going to know that the frame is a XXXX brand frame.

First off silhoutte They make a great product but I bet the breakage is double that of most designer brands. The 3 peice stuff that is! (The bridge breaks a lot) They have a very low cost to make this product because it is one bridge and one temple with 40 different demo lenses. AND they cost just as much if not more than many designers. I still think they are a fine product worth carring though because people do want them.

Second Flexon. Many different companies carry this product and much of it is made in the same factories. Marchon has flexon and also sells Nike with flexon. Nike is almost 2 times the price for the same stuff but yet Marchon sells more Nike! Marchon makes more money and so does the person selling the Nike retail.

[EyeFitWell]

Literally, roughly half of what I sell is Silhouette. It has a HUGE repurchase rate, and I consider the quality to be outstanding. You can take a hinged (as in, not only TMA) silhouette with cheapo demo lenses and stretch the temples out to almost a 180 with no crack in the lens. I know a patient who RAN OVER THEM with her car, frame is fine!
They do break occasionally, and it's always at one of the solder points. However, I do consider them to be the BEST rimless design out there (IMHO!)

As far as brand name vs. no brand name,
1. Not all brand names are created equal! Some companies focus on quality, others on profit, others on ads, etc.
2. I think that a well-balanced dispensory carries quality frames in a spread of price points. If you want the Kate Spade, wonderful! If you like the KS and don't want to spend that much, how about this nice Adensco that's made by the same company and looks almost identical? Most of the time the designer name has a few extra touches here and there that set it apart from the "knock-off".
3. If the pt wants a designer and you give them the best, they will love you for it. If the pt wants to spend less and you show them a similar, lower price frame, they will LOVE you for it.
4. Some of the highest quality frames I have ever had the pleasure to dispense are brand no one has ever heard of. Toki, for example. They make only eyewear, but most haven't heard of them. They're not in trade mags or even Frame Facts. But hand made in Japan out of solid titanium...those frames are sooooooo nice!

[Johns]

Thanks for chiming in, and I agree whole heartedly with this assesment. I think that clients will often go for the designer product, because the brand may in their mind be synonomous with quality.
.

Yeah, until they look closely at some of the Ray Bans, and see:

"Made In China"

The products coming out of China were all talked down as junk, until the big guys went over and slapped their designers on everything and all of the sudden they magically became "High quality designers"

[rep]

Yeah, until they look closely at some of the Ray Bans, and see:

"Made In China"

The products coming out of China were all talked down as junk, until the big guys went over and slapped their designers on everything and all of the sudden they magically became "High quality designers"

Made all of their Ray Ban frames in China the last few years they owned the brand.

Rep

[Johns]

Made all of their Ray Ban frames in China the last few years they owned the brand.
Rep

I am well aware of that. Producing frames in China and calling them designers is by no means limited to LUX. In fact, (ooh, this is going to hurt to say..) If you are so inclined to buy designers, the European product LUX produces is at the top of the stack in terms of quality.