Nestorians

[Night Train]

As a follow up to the Mormon Thread. (By the way, the South Park Episode on Mormons was one of the best ever)

Anybody ever heard of the Nestorians?

http://www.nestorian.org/

[HarryChiling]

They are very much liek the armenian church, we practice the apostolic faith as well. The armenians were the first christian nation and have been persecuted for centurys, my people are know as fierce warriors, which in modern days translates to stubborn. NO JOKES PLEASE. Most poeple think of christianitry and think of catholics, however the first christians and church was built in armenia.

[BobV]

From another Armenian.

Bob Vartanian:cheers:

[HarryChiling]

...For when two of them meet anywhere in the world, see if they will not create a new Armenia

I guess we just claimed this post. :D

[aaron]

Hey you guys! d stands for davitian... HA!



ad

[BobV]

Paregam!!!

Bob V.

[HarryChiling]

Bob, higheren ga choses?

[BobV]

:) You got the extent of my knowledge of Armenian. I only know a few more words. I'll ask my father for a translation.

[Pete Hanlin]

I've always thought Chapter VIII, section ii. of the Westminster Confession of Faith describes the nature of Christ especially well:

II. The Son of God, the second person of the Trinity, being very and eternal God, of one substance and equal with the Father, did, when the fullness of time was come, take upon Him man's nature,with all the essential properties, and common infirmities thereof, yet without sin; being conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost, in the womb of the virgin Mary, of her substance. So that two whole, perfect, and distinct natures, the Godhead and the manhood, were inseparably joined together in one person, without conversion, composition, or confusion. Which person is very God, and very man, yet one Christ, the only Mediator between God and man.

[HarryChiling]

II. The Son of God, the second person of the Trinity, being very and eternal God, of one substance and equal with the Father, did, when the fullness of time was come, take upon Him man's nature,with all the essential properties, and common infirmities thereof, yet without sin; being conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost, in the womb of the virgin Mary, of her substance. So that two whole, perfect, and distinct natures, the Godhead and the manhood, were inseparably joined together in one person, without conversion, composition, or confusion. Which person is very God, and very man, yet one Christ, the only Mediator between God and man.

This is the reason why our church was split form the catholics, this same issue was discussed in the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD.

Following the holy Fathers, we unanimously teach and confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ: the same perfect in divinity and perfect in humanity, the same truly God and truly man, composed of rational soul and body; consubstantial with the Father as to his divinity and consubstantial with us as to his humanity; "like us in all things but sin." He was begotten from the Father before all ages as to his divinity and in these last days, for us and for our salvation, was born as to his humanity of the virgin Mary, the Mother of God.
We confess that one and the same Christ, Lord, and only-begotten Son, is to be acknowledged in two natures without confusion, change, division, or separation. The distinction between natures was never abolished by their union, but rather the character proper to each of the two natures was preserved as they came together in one person (prosopon) and one hypostasis.

We believe and have always believed in the one Christ. The passages that you quoted is trying to make the councils decree more palpable to the oriental orthodox churches that don't believe in the two natures of Christ. Christ is God.

[Pete Hanlin]

Well, perhaps Christmas is an appropriate time for discussion of the nature of Christ's person (even though the birth of Christ most likely occurred nowhere near December 25th- this date was adopted in an attempt to quell yet another religious debate)...

Anyway, there were a number of opinions/teachings which circulated early on. I don't recall them all, but one of the stranger ones I recall held that God "adopted" Christ at his baptism (until then, Jesus was just another man- but the spirit of God filled him at that point).

Oddly enough, the Trinity wasn't exactly a central tenet of the Early Church. In fact, one of the only times it appears is in the procedure for baptism. Since its surely one of those concepts that is beyond my understanding, I've always liked the analogy that the Trinity is somewhat like our own human existance- we have a body (Jesus), soul (Father), and spirit (Holy Spirit). Each is inseperable but distinct. So, Jesus was the physical manifestation of God.

Of course, there are always problems with ANY belief- for the analogy above, one such problem is when Jesus converses with the Father on the cross (why have you forsaken me...). I have a hard time understanding how your body can converse with your soul (although David did just that when he commended his soul to rejoice in the Psalms).

In the end, the question of who Christ has resulted in several divisions in the Church (e.g., the Jehovah Witnesses believe Jesus isn't God with a capital "G"). Unfortunately, I think this detracts from the message Jesus taught- love God and love one another... Everything else washes out in the laundry, IMO (perhaps when we've all perfected following that teaching, we can "graduate" to debating the finer points of who Christ is).