What are you gonna do?

**DragonLensmanWV** · 12-07-2006, 03:10 PM

I just had to give a refund to a customer because she came back from the Ophthalmologist's office with a note destroying the manufacture of her glasses. The note found that not a single thing was correct with the glasses. There was way too much cyl and it was 45 degrees off axis, the power was way off - too much plus, and the PDs weren't even in the ballpark. And the add power was off.And to prove it, they had left the spots on the lens to show where they had taken the reading. Of course, it was halfway down the corridor of her progressives and it was partly out of the corridor to boot.
Obviously, the Dr. had his girl up front neutralize the glasses with a Humphreys. All she knew was to move the glasses around until the lines centered up and step on the button.This is not the first time this has happened, and previously I went to the Dr's office and trained their staff how to actually check progressives, but this is a new MD who so far, according to our experience with her, takes the stand that it's always the glasses that are off, never her Rxes.
This from the same Dr who had us fill an RX plainly written wrong, insisting that she wrote it right, giving the customer -4.00 in the OD, and +4.00 in the OS. Customer complains to us, we send her back to the DR, customer comes back with an explanation that the Dr did some quick surgery in the chair and now she has a new script for -4.00 OU. Yeah, right!

**Robert Martellaro** · 12-07-2006, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by DragonLensmanWV

What are you gonna do?

Switch from beer to whiskey.

Do the doctors have an eyeglass dispensary?

**chip anderson** · 12-07-2006, 03:41 PM

Rule #1: "Don't trust anybody!"
Rule #2: "The doctor is always right, no matter what he says."

:D

Of course Draggonman, it's always wise to ask if the doctor made a mistake when you find diss-similar signs on the Rx unless the doctor has posted a side note: "Signs correct." Or if you have previous Rx's on the patient showing diss-similar signs.
Most doctors are happy to clarify, especially if it avoids thier having a mistake coming back in the patient's hands. You know what catagory to put those who are so arrogant that they won't even look to see if a mistake was a possiblity on thier part.

**Echo419** · 12-07-2006, 03:54 PM

Similar circumstatces, I Rx a pair of sola acess, I explained how and why I rxed it so did my optician. About a yr later I receive a letter from the patient's attorney. Saying she was injured from my Rx and wanted all records. Three months later they send another letter asking where the invoice is from the last pair of glasses, after not finding it they subpoenaed the lab for records. That when I got sucpicious of what the ture nature of the problem. So I wrote a letter to the attorney explaining how sola access works and the tech papers on it. Its been 4 months I have'nt heard back so I'm thinking that shut them up. What I think happen is the patient went somewhere else with a copy of my Rx which is just (distance and add) and had them read it , of course the top reads +1.25 stronger than the distance so she thought I made the wrong. Then went to an attorney.

**Dave Nelson** · 12-07-2006, 03:57 PM

Wev'e had the same thing happen a few times. New girl with an auto lensometer.:finger:

**EyeFitWell** · 12-07-2006, 04:05 PM

When you get a Dr's Rx change, what do you do? You take it with a smile, eat the cost of the new lenses, and explain that sometimes it happens-no one's fault. You never take it and say, "This is the second mess up this doctor has made this week! I am sick of this! He/She totally dropped the ball and wrote the Rx out wrong!" This would be HIGHLY unprofessional, right?
If I were in your shoes, I might contact the MD and ask her to please research something before she goes off and belittles me in the eyes of a patient, especially if it was his office girl who messed up! That is just...wrong! Even if you had made a mistake, he should have been good enough to try to avoid accusing you of "messing it up". Not cool.

**FVCCHRIS** · 12-07-2006, 04:13 PM

to alcohol, drugs, and Rx's from that Dr. !! If they ask you why you can politely decline to comment. Any Dr. who treated me in such a way would eventually regret doing so. Sounds like a very simple issue easily resolved by some "professional conduct" on someone's part. Send that office some humble pie next Holiday season.:bbg: Chris..

**a1vo** · 12-07-2006, 04:23 PM

When you get a Dr's Rx change, what do you do?

With a smile and tell the customer "We'll replace the lenses with new RX at no cost to you. It's our ploicy to offer a 1-time-no-charge-doctor-redo within 90-day from the original RX date." Of course, we are flexable on the "90-day". This way, pt is aware next time it will be from their pocket.

You don't have this "90-day 1-time" policy? Maybe it's about time to have one. :)

**EyeFitWell** · 12-07-2006, 05:41 PM

IMHO, the issue here is how the MD bashed the optical shop who made the lenses (CORRECTLY!). It's the equivalent of you refusing to do a Dr change N/C, explaining to the patient that the doctor they saw didn't know how to refract.

**Blake** · 12-07-2006, 05:52 PM

If you continue accepting Rx's from this MD, you will likely give many more refunds for similar reasons - not to mention the bad word-of-mouth from patients who know only that their Medical Deity proclaimed you grossly incompetent (in so many words).

If you cease taking Rx's from the MD, you will probably lose out on some sales, since I assume it is only a minority of her patients that return. Plus you have to explain to each and every patient that you do not fill her Rx's any more.

What gets done all depends on who has to make the decision I suppose - and how much flak they're prepared to take for it.

**harry888** · 12-07-2006, 07:39 PM

I hope everyone is copying the Rx.

Had a similar situation last month, patient came back with a note saying it was made wrong, with a new copy of what was supposedly the original Rx.

Showed the patient a copy of the original, compared it with that day's Rx, they didn't match. Patient understood. She also blamed the tech, not the doctor.

Harry

**Ladyoptician** · 12-07-2006, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by EyeFitWell

When you get a Dr's Rx change, what do you do? You take it with a smile, eat the cost of the new lenses, and explain that sometimes it happens-no one's fault. You never take it and say, "This is the second mess up this doctor has made this week! I am sick of this! He/She totally dropped the ball and wrote the Rx out wrong!" This would be HIGHLY unprofessional, right?
If I were in your shoes, I might contact the MD and ask her to please research something before she goes off and belittles me in the eyes of a patient, especially if it was his office girl who messed up! That is just...wrong! Even if you had made a mistake, he should have been good enough to try to avoid accusing you of "messing it up". Not cool.

I don't eat the cost, I do a dr error remake and send the bill to the Dr. who gave out the rx. I have never had a problem with doing this. Why should my office have to pay for it?? I don't mention anything to the patient derrogatory about the doc, but I don't see why we would have to pay for their error. :angry:

**a1vo** · 12-07-2006, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Ladyoptician

I don't eat the cost, I do a dr error remake and send the bill to the Dr. who gave out the rx. I have never had a problem with doing this. Why should my office have to pay for it?? I don't mention anything to the patient derrogatory about the doc, but I don't see why we would have to pay for their error. :angry:

Wow, that's how it works at never never land!:)

In my neighborhood, frequently the small print on the RX says if u take the RX from the dr then you agree on give free dr's redo. And I allow only 1 free dr's redo, which I pass to my lab most time.

**a1vo** · 12-07-2006, 08:01 PM

And do u bill doctor retail or wholesale cost?

**Ladyoptician** · 12-07-2006, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by a1vo

And do u bill doctor retail or wholesale cost?

I make a copy of the invoice and send them that. I wouldn't expect one dime more than I had to pay out.

**Fezz** · 12-07-2006, 08:10 PM

I have had enough bad experiences with MD rx's that I rarely fill them. We get so few in the office that I work at, that it is not an issue. In my last practice, we flat out refused to fill one MD's rx's. He was THE WORST refractionist=EVER!!!!!!!!! We always copied outside rx's and he was great for bashing our quality, skill and "incorrectly made eyewear" and then giving the patient a new rx with--of course--modifications, and telling the patients to tell us to make them right this time!!!!!!!!!!!!! Drop these jokers, you will not regret it.

Not all MD rx's are bad. Most, yes...all, no. We have an MD that is a fantastic surgeon and refers a lot of patients to us for eye exams, contact lens fits, eyewear, etc. He has even gone as far as saying to me(an optician) when I called once about a questionable rx, that I(me) know alot more about rx's and glasses then he does and to do what i thought best for the patient! WOW!!!!

**Ladyoptician** · 12-07-2006, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by a1vo

Wow, that's how it works at never never land!:)

In my neighborhood, frequently the small print on the RX says if u take the RX from the dr then you agree on give free dr's redo. And I allow only 1 free dr's redo, which I pass to my lab most time.

If they had made the glasses, then they would have to pay for it. My opinion is, if you don't want to sell the glasses, then why should my office keep forking out money for their error.

**a1vo** · 12-07-2006, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Ladyoptician

If they had made the glasses, then they would have to pay for it. My opinion is, if you don't want to sell the glasses, then why should my office keep forking out money for their error.

Most time it's pt's choice to go to your dispensary, not doctor's.

So u bill all dr's redo regardless the reasons or only the ones with "copy error"?

:p :p ;) :bbg: :)

**Ladyoptician** · 12-07-2006, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by a1vo

Most time it's pt's choice to go to your dispensary, not doctor's.

So u bill all dr's redo regardless the reasons or only the ones with "copy error"?

:p :p ;) :bbg: :)

All. I would expect the same from any other office. We are not the only one in the area that does it, although, it has never happened to us. I look at it this way, when a patient walks out of the doc's office, any doc's office, they are walking out with confidence that this is the correct rx. When I fill it, I have no choice but to fill it as written. If I do everything on my end correctly, then why am I the punished one??

**HarryChiling** · 12-07-2006, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Ladyoptician

I don't eat the cost, I do a dr error remake and send the bill to the Dr. who gave out the rx. I have never had a problem with doing this. Why should my office have to pay for it?? I don't mention anything to the patient derrogatory about the doc, but I don't see why we would have to pay for their error. :angry:

If you had a shop in my location I would love yyou for that, first I am finding out your cost of goods, second I am finding out the labs and lens suppliers that you are doing business with, and it would not be hard for anyone to call the laband find out more info about your account with an invoice and then turn around and find out how your business is doing. I got to tell you, you leave your business exposed to the competition through social engineering they would be able to gain access to your accounts and create some real havoc.

Unfortunately it is a reality that some doctors are jerks, OD's and OMD's. Oh, opticians are also. I wouldn't stop accepting outside Rx's beacuse of a certain doctor, just explain to your patients the problems you are having with that doctor before you write the order and possibly even trial frame the Rx so that the patient can see the Rx before you make them and lose money. It would be unprofessional to tell your clients that this doctor is a quack, but to forwarn your clients about his/her unprofessional behavior, well thats just business.

**Ladyoptician** · 12-07-2006, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by HarryChiling

If you had a shop in my location I would love yyou for that, first I am finding out your cost of goods, second I am finding out the labs and lens suppliers that you are doing business with, and it would not be hard for anyone to call the laband find out more info about your account with an invoice and then turn around and find out how your business is doing. I got to tell you, you leave your business exposed to the competition through social engineering they would be able to gain access to your accounts and create some real havoc.

Unfortunately it is a reality that some doctors are jerks, OD's and OMD's. Oh, opticians are also. I wouldn't stop accepting outside Rx's beacuse of a certain doctor, just explain to your patients the problems you are having with that doctor before you write the order and possibly even trial frame the Rx so that the patient can see the Rx before you make them and lose money. It would be unprofessional to tell your clients that this doctor is a quack, but to forwarn your clients about his/her unprofessional behavior, well thats just business.

Honestly Harry, I don't know what info they could get that would be so beneficial. I have to say, I know quite a bit about almost every office that is our competition from either working there previously or just through the grapevine and I don't think I have done one thing different or gained a patient from knowing what I know. I do white out our account number and to be honest, the lab I work with is small and every customer service rep there knows that I am the only optician in the practice, knows me very well and would be very suspicous of anyone who might would call wanting info. And furthermore, the only office that I have had to do this with does not sell glasses and woudn't have much use for any information they might try to get. I know what optical shops are doing very well and which ones are on the verge of shutting down and it makes no difference in how I do business.

**chip anderson** · 12-07-2006, 09:39 PM

Wow! I haven't heard of anyone being able to actually bill a doctor for a CTD (except in an office owned by a group of doctor's who wouldn't pay for each other's mistakes) since the '50's. Us independents just eat it as the cost of doing business and keeping up PR in the hope that more Rx's will follow. Except of course for the ******* that intentionally writes wrong Rx's to give us a bad time when a patient actually excapes his office with the Rx.

**Ladyoptician** · 12-07-2006, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by chip anderson

Wow! I haven't heard of anyone being able to actually bill a doctor for a CTD (except in an office owned by a group of doctor's who wouldn't pay for each other's mistakes) since the '50's. Us independents just eat it as the cost of doing business and keeping up PR in the hope that more Rx's will follow. Except of course for the ******* that intentionally writes wrong Rx's to give us a bad time when a patient actually excapes his office with the Rx.

The first time I did this, I had a talk with the fellow office and they were very accepting of it and were very willing to stand by there rx's and completely agreed with me that we shouldn't have to "eat the cost". This was quite a while ago and have seen no reduction in the amount of patients reffered to us.

**Johns** · 12-07-2006, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by chip anderson

Wow! I haven't heard of anyone being able to actually bill a doctor for a CTD (except in an office owned by a group of doctor's who wouldn't pay for each other's mistakes) since the '50's. Us independents just eat it as the cost of doing business and keeping up PR in the hope that more Rx's will follow. Except of course for the ******* that intentionally writes wrong Rx's to give us a bad time when a patient actually excapes his office with the Rx.

We've gotten paid (reimbursed) by MD (the same ones) a number of times.
It's kind of like "hush" money, so the pt. doesn't have to know the MD screwed up.;)

**Framebender** · 12-07-2006, 10:50 PM

At no charge?? Only if its my Drs Rx. Outside Rxs is 50% of retail. . .they can settle it with whoever did the refraction. By the time I process it the second time with shipping and next months credit. . . .its not free to me.

Of course, we know who in our area we have to watch out for. Those we trial frame and if there's problem we'll chair them and get our Dr to do solve it. I won't refund in full for a set of lenses that I know are right. They can have half, but I'm going to cover my cost. I've got a written Rx too. We're going to court. I would look forward to being vindicated. I believe that giving in to that stuff reflects on your professional standing.

I can do that as an owner. I understand that everyone is not in that position, but its something to think about if you break out on your own.

Happy Holidays!!

:cheers: