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Thread: Hoyalux Id

  1. #1
    Rising Star
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    Hoyalux Id

    my hoya rep was in today and told me:

    "the hoya id is the ONLY freeform lens that is digitally surfaced on both sides."

    is this true? i honestly have never used hoya products before and am wondering 1. if that is an accurate statement and 2. how exactly that would improve optics


    thanks!

  2. #2
    One of the worst people here
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    Does not appear to be. The Physio 360, the new Kodak lens, the Ipseo, and the Definity.

    Saying that, is both sides a benefit? Is it the best way to go?

  3. #3
    Rising Star
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    other lenses

    i know, he told me they only "claim" to be on both sides when they are partially molded still.

    i use the shamir autograph am very impressed with it so far. used 360 once and the patient loved it. i just don't see what the difference is, i am hoping someone can refute it or explain to me why the iD would be a better choice for my patients.

  4. #4
    One eye sees, the other feels OptiBoard Silver Supporter
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    Both surfaces use free-form technology.

    http://www.danskoptometri.dk/artikle...generation.pdf

    Regards,
    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

    Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.



  5. #5
    Allen Weatherby
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    I hope my explaination helps

    WHVISIONLAURIE said:
    is this true? i honestly have never used hoya products before and am wondering 1. if that is an accurate statement and 2. how exactly that would improve optics
    You have a two part question:

    1st The Hoya ID is surfaced on both sides

    2nd How exactly would that improve optics? This is a bit more complex. Hoya chose to design a lens that required surfacing on both sides. There are two possible main reasons they did this A- They believe a dual surfaced design can be better. B- They could not use a spherical front surface due to a patent infringement. We manufacture a backside progressive with a spherical front.

    I have discussed the different designs with lens designers and all that I have talked to agree that there are very few specific advantages to a non-spherical front surface other than a way for someone to produce a freeform lens, if they can not receive permission to manufacturer under the patents that cover a spherical front with a PAL design on the back.

    At ICE-TECH we produce our backside wrap polarized progressive with spherical front surfaces. We can do this due to an agreement to produce these utilizing the US patent that covers spherical front surfaces with PAL backside designs.

    Personally I believe a PAL freeform can be design using either method with good results, or at least much better than traditional PAL's

  6. #6
    OptiBoard Apprentice OptiBoard Bronze Supporter
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    For a word used so commonly by companies in our industry, (freeform), how is it that one company can trademark it??

    http://www.shamirlens.com/ecp/legal.aspx

  7. #7
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    still wondering

    is this the only lens surfaced in this fashion ( i was led to believe that it is )?

    thank you for your answers- this is helpful to know that it has more to do with patents than my patients visual comfort. (likely)

    :-)
    laurie

  8. #8
    Allen Weatherby
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    Hoya dual sided lens design

    Laurie:

    You were told the truth, as far as I know in the US Hoya is the only company surfacing both sides using freeform or digital surfacing.

    Many others are made with a dual side design, the others using dual side surface designs just cast or inject the front side with the curves needed, such as the former J&J Definity, now marketed by Essilor.

    Again I personnally think the Hoya dual side design does not offer any benefit over the individualized backside lens designs we offer. The manufacturing costs are much greater for the dual surfaced design and the possiblity for error in this type of design is much greater than a spherical front and PAL individualized back design. With a dual sided design the alignment of the front and back surfaces is critical. Vertical and horizontal alignment are very important as is the axis. Remember with this type of lens production you are cutting surfaces within one micron of accuraccy in some cases. With a spherical front the back surface can not be misaligned. (I did not mean Hoya does not do a good job of matching the front and back surface, as I am sure they have an excellent method to control this.)

  9. #9
    Rising Star
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    thanks!

    that's interesting, thank you!

    tell me more about your lenses, i've only heard of them here on optiboard.

  10. #10
    Allen Weatherby
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    What makes ICE-TECH different

    WHVISIONLAURIE:
    tell me more about your lenses, i've only heard of them here on optiboard.
    We set out to produce the best in prescription sunglass lenses. The challenge was large wrap frames.

    The Problem: With a -4.00 sph, no one wanted to use an 8 base front curve

    Solution: If you manage the light correctly you can use these steep front curves on almost any prescription.

    Next Problem: In theory the above proved correct, but no one could cut the necessary individualized designs and polish them.

    Solution: 2 years a lot of time and $ = ICE-TECH Advanced Polarized Rx lenses. We developed our PAL technology working with the world leader in this technology as a beginning point.

    Result is we can produce wrap single vision and wrap polarized lenses that look like the plano. Try to order a PAL polarized for a frame with a 68 ED and see what a traditional lab says.

    If you want more information contact me via e-mail or private message with you telephone number and mailing address.

    We are not advertising as we are growing by word of mouth at a very managable rate.

    PS: We offer a full like of mirror treatments and all our sunglass lenses come with backside AR

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