Do you prefer to promote "Frame+Lens" packages offered by labs? Isn't it a natural move that labs will replace frame wholesalers in future and also become the stockist of frames, so ECP's won't need to stock frames but just a set of trial frames?
Yes, we sell a lot of Frame+Lens packages by labs
Never tried, but would like to consider
No, it's not a good idea
Do you prefer to promote "Frame+Lens" packages offered by labs? Isn't it a natural move that labs will replace frame wholesalers in future and also become the stockist of frames, so ECP's won't need to stock frames but just a set of trial frames?
So far, I haven't used any because the frame selection is low. I hope frames do not start to be made/distributed by labs. I prefer dealing with more of a selection and having sales reps.
Strange as it may seem, this is the way most labs and frame suppliers used to operate. It was a good system, but frame mfgs. went to the current system. Optical labs possibly couldn't stock all frames and colors and sizes they needed, etc.
I have seen a couple of companies (possibly out of despairaton) try to go back to same (like the last days of Rodenstock US) but this didn't work out.
Don't know what the future will bring.
Chip
I echo what Chip said. I have found that most of the frame and lens packages to be not such a great deal. Most of the frames are of questionable quality for the price. Basically, I can purchase much better frames for much less than most of these package deals. I prefer to pick the frame and lens options.
Fezz
:cheers:
Yes, it's really strange to me. I can see all the benefits and cost savings for both labs and ECP's and yet not many labs are aggressively pursuing in this direction. I'm sure frame mfgs would love to support labs in doing so.....what's going on?Originally Posted by chip anderson
Those were the days, Chip. When I started in a wholesale lab, we stocked frames from Art-Craft, Shuron-Continental, Zyloware, Rodenstock, Martin-Copeland, Victory and Liberty.
There were probably more, but the early 70's are kinda fuzzy, for a lot of different reasons.
I was just wondering, EyeFitWEll, is it the fact that the labs have a limited selection of frames (and if they had a larger selection you would purchase) or that the lab is selling frames so the stigma is that since it is a lab frame it is not of good quality?
Because to my understanding a frame is really just a carrier to sell lenses.
I too am perplexed why Labs and ECP's are not on the same sheet of music when it comes to the "Frame & Lens" packages. The lens technology doesn't change, the frame technonlogy doesn't change so what is the problem. I understand that not every lab could stock every concievable frame you would want, but I'll bet they could stock at least 65% of the work you do. Barring any specific niche market you may have in a particular area.
The complaints by many independents that big corporations that are just crushing them, the big corp's are using the same principle (vertical integration) to do their crushing. Hello.
When enough ECP's and wholesale labs have been closed down due to big corporate competition, then I am hoping the remaining survivor's will finally get together and form strategic partnerships and work together.
I think frame manufacturer's would love to see labs supplying the ECP's with their products. And I'll also bet the ECP would see better pricing and just as good if not better quality. No matter what, ECP's will always have to do business with the labs, at least for lenses. You see the lab sales reps no matter what. Now you could incorporate frames in that mixture and kill two birds with one stone*. And more than likely you would see frame prices drop over time due to less frame company time having to be spent with each individual account.
Also, this "strategic partnership" would probably not work in every situation, but I'll bet in most it would.
*Note: No birds or stones were harmed in the writing of this opinion. :hammer:
When labs sell frames, yuo can be assured that you will be paying more than you have to, only because they are just another middleman in the chain.
If labs manufactured frames, or were soley distributors, it would be a different story.
I actually utilize several different frame and lens packages through two of my labs.
One set utilizes popular kids frames and poly lenses for about a $10 savings compared to purchasing separately. My lab also provides packages for many of Encore Jim's product for less than Frame Facts price for the frames alone.. Current frame selections include Americana, Flexy, and Rimless from Encore, and then capri and universal frames as well.
Utilizing these packages allow us to provide decent quality product for "value" patients and those on assistance, at a price we can still make a decent profit on.
In fact, all my medicaid frames at this point are ones that I can get a frame/lens package from one of my labs for.
Another lab offers Jonathan Cate rimless, in trivex or poly, with A/R, Drill-notching, polish, and a 2 year warranty (unlimited replacements) for the cost of what we would typically pay for everything ala carte.
I personally think that many of these packages are a win/win situation.
Cassandra
"Some believe in destiny, and some believe in fate. But I believe that happiness is something we create."-Something More by Sugarland
Johns, That is the furthest from the truth that ECPs will pay more just because a lab is selling the frame. The actual truth is they will pay less because the lab wants to get the frames in to generate Rx business from that office. There is very little difference in a lab getting a margin on frames and a direct company paying the rep.
Actually they could do it at less costs as the "rep" could be eliminated. Reps whether they are factory employees are quite expensive, with travel expenses, paperwork, etc.
Of course the labs would need more help but for the most part they would be in house, need little travel and entertainment expense, etc.
Now days for some reason reps seem to be living better than independent accounts.
Chip
And no, I don't need to hear from all the rep/salespeople on how important they are to the overall workings of the world. And yes, I do like most of my reps and as long as the system is as it is, I am happy that they can make a good living at it.
I started in this business at an AO lab in 1969, at that time we supplied frames from AO, Liberty and I beleive Swank. When I went to work at Walman's they sold Shuron, Art-Craft, Universal (remember the Cambridge?), Univis, etc, etc. I don't really know why labs stopped selling frames, except for the amout of styles now avaiable. We only stock basics for the Amish/Mennonite trade, but do a good business with them.
I personaly don't promote it, and the reason why is we pay 15% higher on the cost of the lenses when we have them edged by the lab. If I order the same frame and lens and put it together myself I save a bit of money. It is the bottom line that counts for me.
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From a lab point of view- we offer the Mount Eyewear ( by Tuscany) as a frame and lens package.This was our first experience in dealing with frames and so far it has been a hit! We feel that we did price the packages so that everyone could make some money-the lab and the ECP- and the consumer would end up with a decent product.
On another note- I do not understand why opticians do not "package" all high index lens products with AR-otherwise it seems that you solve one problem and create another.You know, kinda of like buying a 2007 sports car with roll up windows.
Florida Optician;)
I think right here lies the issue. As an office that doesn't edge, the cost of buying frame and lens together in a package represents a larger savings to me than if I had a stock of lenses in house or in bank, and edged in house.
Cassandra
"Some believe in destiny, and some believe in fate. But I believe that happiness is something we create."-Something More by Sugarland
If you ever own a Ford product, you will some day wish you had gotten it with roll up windows.
The Ferrari Enzo, one of the most exclusive sports cars out there (due to price and very limited production) does not come with the option of power windows. This is primarily due to the extra several pounds the mechanism takes. It also doesn't have a radio option because "if you're driving an Enzo you should be listening to the sound of the car, not the radio"
However, your point is taken. There are some things that very few people should be without. Those wearing high index should have AR in most situations.
It also doesn't have a radio option because "if you're driving an Enzo you should be listening to the sound of the car, not the radio"
Hey! I'm an optician! I need a radio to drown out the noise of my muffler dragging under my car!
:cheers:
I think you have to atach a poly lens to your muffler so it does not make too much noise!
I thought the sound of the engine sans-muffler would drown out the sound of the muffler itself! :bbg:
Maybe...but the fumes make me feel like dancin'!
Frame and lens from the same source maybe slowing swing back the other direction. At ICE-TECH we started life as a plano polarized company. We then devoted a great deal of capital and development time to perfect wrap around prescription lenses.
I think you will see more frame and lens combinations being done by the manufacturer. Labs in the US are a bit different than Europe and Asia. The US has a very fragmented lab business. Most labs try to be all things to all people offering many brands, sunlenses etc., Some such as Essilor labs offer the Physio 360, which they do not even produce in house, they just make a commission selling this.
Basicly distribution costs are expensive and companies will try to figure out how to most efficiently distribute their products. The costs maybe about the same for a frame manufacture to use a lab vs. a larger sales force to call on the ECPs. Yes the labs would get a better price but the frame manufacturer would lower their sales expense.
Example: If the sales rep makes $100,000 year selling to the ECPs and they sell to 400 accounts. To duplicate volume this the frame manufacturer may only have to sell 4 labs. So one rep manages 400 accounts direct to the ECP and one rep manages only 40 lab accounts. The frame company can now cover 4,000 ECP via the 40 labs. This frame company would save $900,000 in rep expense. They would then be shipping all order in bulk not one frame at time.
The costs of the distribution are real, and their are advantages to each. I think frame manufacturer competition is driving the direct to ECP. Business model. By not allowing the Labs to have access to brand name frames the frame companies have more control over their own destiny.
With the lab distributing the finished lens and frame the issue for the frame company is who is selling and presenting my frames to the ECP. Its no longer their rep, it is the lab rep.
I think the branded frame companies offering their own unique lens products is going to be a growth area. The largest example to date of this is Oakley. They have opened the door for others to sell this way to the ECPs.
At ICE-TECH for ECPs we focus on unique products Sunlenses single vision and PALs and clear PALs featuring individualized lenses. We are the only company that I am aware of that only offers individualized freeform only specialization.
We are an additional source for the ECPs not a lab replacement. Many of the traditional labs appreciate it when they find their customer is sending this type of work to us. Typically the only person at the lab that wants this type of work we do is the lab sales rep since he doesn't have to do the job. Many labs take on these difficult jobs just to keep their accounts. With a specialtiy supplier like ICE-TECH the traditional lab does not have to fear us as competition but rather a solution to their problem jobs without the worry of taking away the bulk of their accounts lab business.
There are many dynamics to consider.
As a rep for a lab that supplies frames I'd like to hear more ...
If your lab could supply you with a frame that met your quality & style standards at a price you considered equitable would that change your mind?
How important is the Name Brand? If you had 2 frames that were exactly the same, but one was not a Big Name (or a Big Price), would you use it?
Do you feel that Big Name = Better Quality?
It seems most practices use lab-supplied frames as a niche offering. If a lab could supply you with frames that met the needs of you (costwise) and your patients (stylewise) 50% of the time, would you give them 50% of your board space?
Many sizable labs, nowadays, actually start to source frames directly from factories in Asia and Europe. So they actually eliminated the middleman and should be able to price more competitively. However, many smaller labs are still buying from local distributors, which further adds middleman markups, and that explains why some labs are selling frames at higher price than frame wholesalers. I see this gradually changing though. We have more and more inquiries from labs any sizes recently.
Lak Cheong
www.acuityeyewear.com
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