Ice vs Alize

**mike.elmes** · 09-21-2006, 01:47 PM

We pretty much use nikon product...i and W progressives and all of the varilux line including Ipseo. I am certain that in our experience here that the ice is a good bit easier to clean and all around better AR than the Alize or D'alyze.
Anyone have opinions on which AR they feel is better? We don't use the Zeiss Karat but who has any feedback on that? The Teflon coat was all hype and peeled with regularity. Anyone using the newest T3 teflon? What kind of residual does it have?

**For-Life** · 09-21-2006, 02:02 PM

Really?

We used Ice when it first came out. Then I found out that the easy to clean part of the ICE lens wears off in 3 months to a year. I started getting complaints from customers, and then switched them to Alize. They are very happy now.

**mike.elmes** · 09-21-2006, 02:52 PM

we stock s/v alize and airwear alize and find them to be a bit better than crizal but no where near as water repellant and dirt repellant as the ice...

**The Critical Eye** · 09-22-2006, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by For-Life

Really?

We used Ice when it first came out. Then I found out that the easy to clean part of the ICE lens wears off in 3 months to a year. I started getting complaints from customers, and then switched them to Alize. They are very happy now.

I've had my present pair of HCC ICE for roughly 2 years... they're still
performing great. Best lens I've ever had for cleanibility. I clean alot of alize/D Alize... and definitely like the HCC ICE much better.

**For-Life** · 09-22-2006, 09:03 PM

http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...ight=nikon+ice here is a thread that gives a few other opinions

**Chris Ryser** · 09-25-2006, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by The Critical Eye

I clean alot of alize/D Alize... and definitely like the HCC ICE much better.

Maybe then you should also give Diamond a shot. You can even apply it yourself in no time............and it is antistatic as well as anti fog.

**Fezz** · 09-25-2006, 08:39 PM

I agree with Chris. You may want to try the OMS Diamond Slick Coat. There is a fantastic review on the Review Forum, right here on Optiboard!

;)

Fezz
:cheers:

**The Critical Eye** · 09-26-2006, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Chris Ryser

Maybe then you should also give Diamond a shot. You can even apply it yourself in no time............and it is antistatic as well as anti fog.

Have tried the "Crystal Clear Guard" by OMS... not that impressed.

... it just doesn't make sense that one should have to coat a coating.

**striker22** · 09-27-2006, 06:57 AM

Somehow ICE didn't work for me. After a short 5 months, the cleanability wore out. I know some who are extremely satisfied though. Could it be a batch problem?

**mike.elmes** · 09-27-2006, 11:25 AM

Perhaps we can get the OMS rep to chime in here....what's the difference between the Crystal Clear Guard and the Diamond slick coat.....I bought the clear guard to improve the cleanability of the crizal orma 15 lenses....did I get the wrong product??

**For-Life** · 09-27-2006, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by mike.elmes

Perhaps we can get the OMS rep to chime in here....what's the difference between the Crystal Clear Guard and the Diamond slick coat.....I bought the clear guard to improve the cleanability of the crizal orma 15 lenses....did I get the wrong product??

Name change due to patent reasons.

**Chris Ryser** · 09-28-2006, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by The Critical Eye

Have tried the "Crystal Clear Guard" by OMS... not that impressed.

... it just doesn't make sense that one should have to coat a coating.

You coat an AR coating to have the effect the big corporations top slick coat for which you pay a high premium price and get the lenses off axis when they turn in the bevel edger. In addition to that you anti stat and anti fog properties the other have not even invented at these date.

For not being impressed.............I guess you rather pay the big price from the major players for the same end product on the lens. :D

**FCChemist** · 01-08-2007, 06:17 PM

I doubt the chemistries are the same. Most of the premium hydrophobic/oleophobic topcoats are based on fluorinated polysiloxanes. I believe the topcoats from OMS are non-fluorinated polysiloxanes better known as silicones. These two class of materials will give very different performance attributes especially when it comes to oil resistance/repellency. I'm not saying one is better than the other, though I have a preference, but they will be different.

**Jedi** · 01-09-2007, 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by The Critical Eye

... it just doesn't make sense that one should have to coat a coating.

I'm fairly certain that is how Nikon Ice is applied.

**FCChemist** · 01-09-2007, 11:46 AM

All of the premium easy clean coatings are indeed a coating on top of a coating. An AR coating is typically five layers of metal oxides that are vacuum deposited on top of a hardcoat. The last layer of the AR stack is SiO2. This creates a siliceous surface (-SiOH). This surface provides a handle for premium fluorinated silanes to stick providing a durable easy clean coating. These fluorinated silanes are cured over time to give a fluorinated polysiloxane surface that is also bound to the AR surface.

**Chris Ryser** · 01-10-2007, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by mike.elmes

Perhaps we can get the OMS rep to chime in here....what's the difference between the Crystal Clear Guard and the Diamond slick coat.....I bought the clear guard to improve the cleanability of the crizal orma 15 lenses....did I get the wrong product?

Sorry Mike.................must have missed that post, getting older, dementia and so forth. :hammer:

Both products are exactly the same .................but when we came out with it, Essilor, (who had used the product for many years) took out the big canons and and had their lawyers shoot the bullets at me by e-mail. :angry:

They claimed that the name "Crystalclear" was to close to their registered sales hype and slogans. :finger:

Being a nice guy and not wanting them make them prove their case in court...........they most probably have more cash to pay lawyers to drag out the case for a couple of years............. I involved my computer into this legal case and in 2 minutes had "Crystalclear" changed to "Diamond" slick coat. :D

The lawyers were happy that this short lived name got changed again for a product that above named corporation had purchased and used it for over 10 years under the name "Easy Clean". :hammer:

And if you believe that lens manufacturers dont sell the same lenses under different names in different packages to different customers at different prices, you are dreaming in color.

Some more on AR coating raw materials at : http://optochemicals.com/hydroPills.htm