Physio confusions

[Grubendol]

Can someone clarify for me which materials/styles the Physio and 360 are available in? My lab tells me transitions, cr, poly and 1.67 only but in the Newsroom forum here at the optiboards it says that they are available in 1.60 and polarized as well.

But the varilux website doesn't say anything about this even coming soon. I'm confused, and it's making my head hurt! Help me!



*please*

[Fezz]

I think that Essilor thrives on causing confusion among eyecare professionals. The whole product line is confusing. Some they sell only to chains, some to "professionals", some labs can process this, some can only process that, etc, etc. I read today in Vision Monday that Essilor is going to start heavily promoting Definity. Where does that stand in the product mix? Is it on par as the Physio or Physio 360 or are they all the same damn lens? If it is making your "head hurt", stop dealing with them. They are not worth it. Others will disagree. Life is too short to have to get worked up over some wacky marketing campaign!

Essilor rant mode=OFF

Sorry, I could not stop myself.


Fezz
:cheers:

[LENNY]

They still make Super-No Line!
So whats the problem!

[For-Life]

Essilor announced that it would just start in September with it. So it will probably appear soon.

[nickrock]

According to Vision Monday's most current edition the Physio and Physio360 will be available in 1.60 clear and Transitions this month, in Airwear Polarized in October, and Thin&Lite 1.74 in December.

[RT]

The answer was here on Optiboard the whole time.

http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18761

[Grubendol]

The answer was here on Optiboard the whole time.

http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18761

That answer is what confused me since the variliux website and the essilor lab we use both said they had heard nothing about this.

The product info I have on Definity is that it is a lens mold/design that essilor bought from johnson & johnson. It has a wider corridor and it's big "breakthrough" is "Ground View Technology" which places the intermediate once again in the lens, below the reading. So that patients can see their feet again.

[hotsauce]

But the Ground View Advantage thing only works if the seg is at least 22, and I understand it's best at segs above 26. I don't even bother mentioning it to patients, since frames that size just aren't that commonly in my dispensary.

About the two lenses, the only things I can contribute to the discussion are that the markings the lab leave on my 360 and Definity uncuts are suspiciously similar (I know it's the same facility processing both, but they could try to differentiate the two). Second, my Varilux rep told me that Essilor, and I quote, "had to" buy the Definity, due to similarities in design as well as the acquisition of a couple of key patents. Doesn't add up to much, I know.

[Fezz]

Marketing???

Fezz
:cheers:

[Grubendol]

Plus, there is a short version of the Definity, so that the ground view becomes viable in a regular 19 ht type frame.

[hotsauce]

But someone with a high enough add to appreciate the Ground View thing probably won't enjoy the short intermediate corridor....

[EyeFitWell]

I've used that ground view advantage for golfers, and they love it. They do have to be in a fairly large frame though.
As for the physio, I'm certain that as is, it is available in transitions, cr, poly, and 1.67 only. Also, the 360 is currently available ONLY with alize cg, no matter what material (great way to get them into some AR!) (In the USA)
Watch out, though, the cylinder on a 360 only goes up to four, much to my dismay. me- "Wait, the lens designed for high astigmatism isn't available in high astigmatism prescriptions??" my lab- "Yup!"
I've also had problems with the 360 coming in off power. My lab called and said they could do better in the regular physio, as it is ground on site whereas the 360s are sent to some lab in Texas with the equipment (so they had 'no control' over the quality).
But I've been saying all this time that one BIG selling point on that 360 was that the way it's ground is far more accurate than previous lenses. That's what's supposed to provide better night vision and whatnot, right? I've had a frustrating week with physios.

[AWTECH]

EyeFitWell:

I've also had problems with the 360 coming in off power. My lab called and said they could do better in the regular physio, as it is ground on site whereas the 360s are sent to some lab in Texas with the equipment (so they had 'no control' over the quality).

The measurement for a PAL using a freeform process can have the desired power at the far center. Measuring a freeform lens can also take into account more information than can be easily measured with a Lenometer. I would doubt that the 360 lenses Essilor is producing are off power. Your lab wants the complete job not just the pass through percent of the sale Essilor is offering the labs for freeform 360's.

[EyeFitWell]

By the way, my sales rep told me yesterday that as of September 18th, the Physio is now available in 1.60!

[EyeFitWell]

I would doubt that the 360 lenses Essilor is producing are off power. Your lab wants the complete job not just the pass through percent of the sale Essilor is offering the labs for freeform 360's.

I'm not quite sure how to take that comment. The fact is that I've had two recently that are coming in repeatedly off power. It's not a question, it's true. This hasn't been my experience with every physio 360 I've used, but for such an 'amazingly exact' lens, they sure haven't been able to get these two even within tolerance!

[Grubendol]

isn't it a matter of our lensometers not being calibrated to read a freeform lens, similar to the issue with a 1.74?

[AWTECH]

eyefitwell said:

I'm not quite sure how to take that comment. The fact is that I've had two recently that are coming in repeatedly off power. It's not a question, it's true. This hasn't been my experience with every physio 360 I've used, but for such an 'amazingly exact' lens, they sure haven't been able to get these two even within tolerance!

A freeform lens can be designed to offer excellent vision yet not be measured by a traditional lensometer to the prescribed Rx. An example of this is our ICE-TECH wrap sunlens. A -4.00 sph, 0.00 cyl and 0 axis with a mono PD of 31mm. If you use a frame with a frame angle of 24 degrees and a panto tilt of 10 degrees might generate a lens that most opticians would measure in a traditional way with a sphere of -3.60 and a cyl -0.35 an axis of 14 degrees and a PD of 32.2mm.

The reason there are differences is that the lens design is optimized with the help in production of freeform equipment. There is help in the software to modifiy the backsurface to compensate for the way the lens is worn by the patient. We make the whole lens surface usable for the as worn position based on the refration information. A standard lensometer is only capable of measuring one point. We can check multiple points across the surface of the lens with extreme accuracy in house however such equipment is not likely to be used to replace standard lensometers due to the cost of this equipment.

[Grubendol]

But someone with a high enough add to appreciate the Ground View thing probably won't enjoy the short intermediate corridor....

I was just informed by our Varilux rep that the intermediate corridor is not compromised in the Definity Short. The compromise happens in the distance.

[EyeFitWell]

My Varilux rep came in the other day, and I asked him about P360's not reading correctly on our lensometers. He said he hadn't heard of it and called a supervisor. The supervisor said that even P360's should read correctly on the lensometer.

[Chris Ryser]

Marketing???

re-packaging

:D

[Darryl Meister]

Free-form lenses can be verified using a traditional focimeter or lensometer, like any other progressive lens. The prescription of some free-form lens designs is modified to provide the correct power in the position of wear. However, if the prescription in the checking circle has been deliberately altered, these lenses should be supplied with a "compensated Rx" that will allow you to verify the new prescription using a traditional focimeter. According to Essilor, Varilux Physio 360 maintains the original (prescribed) Rx in the checking circle, and doesn't require a compensated Rx.

[paulho_kl]

According to Essilor, Varilux Physio 360 maintains the original (prescribed) Rx in the checking circle, and doesn't require a compensated Rx.

why SOLAOne HD need compensated Rx? what is the different between HD and 360? which will perform better? and how about HOYAlux ID? does is need compensated Rx too?

[Pete Hanlin]

SOLAOne HD, Hoyalux iD, and Varilux Physio 360 are all created using freeform technology. In fact, each of these products applies freeform technology in different ways. SOLAOne HD uses freeform to grind distance & ADD on the back of the lens. Varilux Physio 360 uses a freeform generated mold for ADD on the front and a directly freeformed surface on the back for a matched distance power. Hoyalux iD uses a freeform process to generate the vertical portion of the ADD on the front and the horizontal portion on the back.

So, all three use a freeform type process in different ways (as well as DEFINITY, Kodak Unique, Shamir Autograph, Varilux Ipseo, etc.). As with any process used to create PALs, the differences come from the design approach taken by each manufacturer. Each of these manufacturers takes advantage of the freedom provided by freeform to deliver what their research indicates will be design benefits to the wearer.

Of course, some will maintain they're all the same with different marketing.

PS- BTW, Varilux Physio 360 should read as prescribed in a lensometer- it is not compensated (Varilux Ipseo is compensated).

PSS- To the original question on availability...
Varilux Physio & Varilux Physio 360
CR-39 Clear, Transitions Grey & Brown
Polycarbonate (Airwear) Clear, Transitions Grey & Brown
Thin&Lite 1.60 Clear, Transitions Grey
Thin&Lite 1.67 Clear, Transitions Grey & Brown

Coming in November...
Polarized
Thin&Lite 1.74

[Darryl Meister]

why SOLAOne HD need compensated Rx?

Any lens that has been fully optimized for the position of wear should require a compensated Rx, though the differences between the compensated Rx and the original (prescribed) Rx may be small in some cases. SOLAOne HD is fully optimized in this way. Essilor apparently constrain their compensation at the checking circle in order to provide the original (prescribed) Rx as a convenience to dispensers (SOLA actually does this for AO Easy HD). While this may reduce the accuracy of the optical correction in the position of wear, it makes the lens easier to verify. It really boils down to a sales and marketing decision: Precision or Convenience.

[eromitlab]

Any lens that has been fully optimized for the position of wear should require a compensated Rx, though the differences between the compensated Rx and the original (prescribed) Rx may be small in some cases. SOLAOne HD is fully optimized in this way. Essilor apparently constrain their compensation at the checking circle in order to provide the original (prescribed) Rx as a convenience to dispensers (SOLA actually does this for AO Easy HD). While this may reduce the accuracy of the optical correction in the position of wear, it makes the lens easier to verify. It really boils down to a sales and marketing decision: Precision or Convenience.

I agree, however, I notice that Essilor does provide a compensated Rx copy with the Ipseo lens. I opened my first pair of lenses from the lab yesterday and saw this note from the lab, saying that "the design incorporates aspherization to optimize visual acuity ..." yada yada yada... anyhow, the acutal difference between as written and 'optimized' was only +0.03D. I don't know anyone that can read a lensmeter to that kind of degree, so I gather that this is one of those cases where precision probably is almost overkill.