Where [else] is appropriate to do perceptual research?

**Javik** · 08-22-2006, 06:12 AM

Is there any sort of discussion forum other than here, that may be open to theoretical discussions of perception? Can you recommend any extreme diagnostic-grade medical textbooks that might aid in such research?

Heh, you all obviously seem quite tense for some reason, probably from dealing with annoying customers that don't appreciate your knowledge and experience.

In a vague sense I suppose what I am looking for is a diagnosis. But, is it a "diagnosis" to ask a question about perception, when you do not want the perception eliminated, treated, or "cured", but just want to understand whatever it is?

Instead I'm merely trying to verify the validility of hidden aspects of my own perceptions that are not obvious to anyone else because it is not possible for anyone else to directly share in experiencing what I am perceiving. And I am trying to document these things in a form where others may be able to understand their own hidden perceptions.

For example, why not stroll on over to Wikipedia, to the article on myopia, and scroll down to the bottom third of the document? You will notice something in there that seems vaguely familiar for some reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myopia

"Due to the extreme vision error, the person is instead able to see microscopic details within their own eyeball, such as the protein strings that naturally float freely in the clear aqueous humour of the eye..."

If you choose to put on your Wikipedia editor's hat, wield your opthamology degree, and proceed to use it to bludgeon my edit to death, that is in fact most welcome because I so far have not found anyone who has any idea what I'm even trying to talk about. Including most eye doctors who seem vaguely irritated that I'm "wasting their time in the office" asking such questions.

Most of this is the result of me trying to explore topics of New Age spirituality... and failing miserably at it. "If you sit in a dark room and observe your hand over a flat painted wall, you may be able to see your own 'aura'."

Um, well, I can't see anything like that. However I am noticing some other things here that seem unusual, that aren't apparantly documented anywhere that I've been able to determine. Stuff like this:

Visual perception is normally a form of tunnel-vision. When watching TV or reading a book, attention is typically focused into a very small region of the eye. The rest of the field of perception is not blacked out or grayed out, but is simply "not present" because it is being ignored by the neurons.

However, it is possible for the entire field to become visually active with conscious effort. It is possible to look straight ahead, but not look at anything in particular, and instead casually observe the entire field of view, and see the world quite clearly with a full 180-degrees of clarity.

If you wear glasses, you can become actively aware of and can see the entire framework including the bows and what seems to be physically impossible out to the extreme sides while still looking binocularly straight ahead.

This perception in fact exists all the time but is being unconsciously suppressed, possibly to conserve the neural processing capacity of your brain. Because it is not a normal perception, this full-field vision takes effort to consciously rouse, and will rapidly drop back to tunnel-mode when your attention to it fades.

I'd like to stick that on wikipedia somewhere, but I have yet to find an article that discusses anything like it. I suppose I could start my own article, but what is the proper term for what I'm discussing? Is this, in fact, something that IS known and documented anywhere in the field of opthamology and/or neuroscience? I have no idea..

I am trying to find a place where people are open to such discussions, but this forum is apparantly not the place, even if it would seem exactly the sort of place for such discussions. So where else can I look to find experienced, knowledgable people that may be interested in discussing such things?

I fully welcome book recommendations no matter how technical the subject matter, just so long as they can help me further along this informal research and exploration, and specifically apply to what I'm talking about here..

-Javik

**Jim Stone** · 08-22-2006, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by Javik

Is there any sort of discussion forum other than here, that may be open to theoretical discussions of perception? Can you recommend any extreme diagnostic-grade medical textbooks that might aid in such research?

Heh, you all obviously seem quite tense for some reason, probably from dealing with annoying customers that don't appreciate your knowledge and experience.

In a vague sense I suppose what I am looking for is a diagnosis. But, is it a "diagnosis" to ask a question about perception, when you do not want the perception eliminated, treated, or "cured", but just want to understand whatever it is?

Instead I'm merely trying to verify the validility of hidden aspects of my own perceptions that are not obvious to anyone else because it is not

possible for anyone else to directly share in experiencing what I am perceiving. And I am trying to document these things in a form where others may be able to understand their own hidden perceptions.

For example, why not stroll on over to Wikipedia, to the article on myopia, and scroll down to the bottom third of the document? You will notice something in there that seems vaguely familiar for some reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myopia

"Due to the extreme vision error, the person is instead able to see microscopic details within their own eyeball, such as the protein strings that naturally float freely in the clear aqueous humour of the eye..."

If you choose to put on your Wikipedia editor's hat, wield your opthamology degree, and proceed to use it to bludgeon my edit to death, that is in fact most welcome because I so far have not found anyone who has any idea what I'm even trying to talk about. Including most eye doctors who seem vaguely irritated that I'm "wasting their time in the office" asking such questions.

Most of this is the result of me trying to explore topics of New Age spirituality... and failing miserably at it. "If you sit in a dark room and observe your hand over a flat painted wall, you may be able to see your own 'aura'."

Um, well, I can't see anything like that. However I am noticing some other things here that seem unusual, that aren't apparantly documented anywhere that I've been able to determine. Stuff like this:

Visual perception is normally a form of tunnel-vision. When watching TV or reading a book, attention is typically focused into a very small region of the eye. The rest of the field of perception is not blacked out or grayed out, but is simply "not present" because it is being ignored by the neurons.

However, it is possible for the entire field to become visually active with conscious effort. It is possible to look straight ahead, but not look at anything in particular, and instead casually observe the entire field of view, and see the world quite clearly with a full 180-degrees of clarity.

If you wear glasses, you can become actively aware of and can see the entire framework including the bows and what seems to be physically impossible out to the extreme sides while still looking binocularly straight ahead.

This perception in fact exists all the time but is being unconsciously suppressed, possibly to conserve the neural processing capacity of your brain. Because it is not a normal perception, this full-field vision takes effort to consciously rouse, and will rapidly drop back to tunnel-mode when your attention to it fades.

I'd like to stick that on wikipedia somewhere, but I have yet to find an article that discusses anything like it. I suppose I could start my own article, but what is the proper term for what I'm discussing? Is this, in fact, something that IS known and documented anywhere in the field of opthamology and/or neuroscience? I have no idea..

I am trying to find a place where people are open to such discussions, but this forum is apparantly not the place, even if it would seem exactly the sort of place for such discussions. So where else can I look to find experienced, knowledgable people that may be interested in discussing such things?

I fully welcome book recommendations no matter how technical the subject matter, just so long as they can help me further along this informal research and exploration, and specifically apply to what I'm talking about here..

-Javik

Javik,
Here is the problem. When LOTS of optical people on the board here see a consumer here, their first thought is, oh no! another consumer with Enet access. They either buy on line and cut us out completely or get more info than we want them to have. In reallity, they have fought this for many,many years. It's the "get a horse" mentallity. People are going to buy on line and from 1800 contacts.
Sorry, that does not answer your question. It's just an appoligy from one optical person.
You should consult your eyecare professional or better for the depth you wish to discuss here go to school.

**Chris Ryser** · 08-22-2006, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Javik

I fully welcome book recommendations no matter how technical the subject matter, just so long as they can help me further along this informal research and exploration, and specifically apply to what I'm talking about here..
-Javik

Start out by looking into the works of Dr.Edwin de Land, one of my favorites, the inventor of the Polaroid camera, theory of color perception and many more visual items. You will find a lot on Google and other search engines. Here is a starting link:

http://www.rowland.harvard.edu/organ...and/theory.php

http://www.rowland.harvard.edu/organ...land/index.php

A native of Connecticut, Dr. Land attended Norwich Academy (Conn.) and Harvard University. He began his studies of the polarization of light while in college and established Polaroid Corporation in Cambridge in 1937 for the manufacture of optical devices employing the principles of polarization.
In 1932, Dr. Land announced at a Harvard University colloquium the invention of the first light-polarizing material in sheet form, subsequently applied to sunglasses and camera filters, special ray filters and sighting devices for military instruments, "3-D" motion and still pictures, and non-dazzling automobile headlights. He is the inventor of the Land Camera, introduced in 1947, which makes possible immediate development of photographs.

**ziggy** · 08-22-2006, 08:28 AM

I dont think I've ever had anyone ask/explain such visual perceptions. That being said, if you wish to learn or discover what it may be you might want get an "A&P of the eye".Those books can be as basic or in depth as you wish. Having just re read you post, If your sitting in a dark room, you may be "seeing" an electric response between photoreceptors located near the fova.

**Andrew Weiss** · 08-22-2006, 08:58 AM

In addition to the references to Dr. Land and to get a good "A&P of the eye" book, you may want to check out the following book and OD:

"Magic Eye Beyond 3D: Improve Your Vision" by Marc Grossman, OD, L.Ac., and Magic Eye, Inc.

You'll find it on Amazon.

Marc Grossman is the owner of Vision Works, Inc. The exercises which he's developed, individually and in conjunction with Magic Eye, utilize the same phenomena of which you write as a tool to relax the eyes and hopefully improve vision. His website is:

http://www.visionworksusa.com

I'd suspect that Dr. Grossman's premises and conclusions would be debated or dismissed by some here, but they may give you some hints on how the phenomena you describe occur from a physiological perspective.

Good luck!

**loncoa** · 08-22-2006, 11:34 AM

And certainly I can understand how one with high myopia could better see the details of the eyeball than a normally sighted person, that is, when you dont have your glasses on. I totally get your point about what you are seeing on the surface of the eye and within the anterior chamber. I see those things myself in patients eyes under certain conditions. We're not all as tense as you may think.

**Ian Jordan** · 09-01-2006, 02:31 AM

From someone that works in research this area - you have picked an enormous subject. (it's a lifetime study!)
There is the physical area, psychophysical, neurological, cognitive, memory, sensory integration - all of which require an enormous effort to have basic knowledge.
Cognitive psychology is probably the best place to start for a layman - there are an enormous number of books in this area - then google psychophysics - temporal processing and mapping is particularly interesting, magnocellular and parvocellular integration is going to be a big thing in optics in about 10 years!