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Thread: What can we learn from consumer postings ?

  1. #1
    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
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    Thumbs up What can we learn from consumer postings ?

    1) A very open theme,......................many threads have been closed lately because of the consumers beating around medical problems that have nothing to do with this forum and have to be dealt by the examining doctor as MD or OD.

    2) However the examining doctor writes an RX to correct a vision problem which results at the end, through the involvement of the optician, in a pair of frames that either fit or they don't.
    There is also a pair of lenses included that either have been properly chosen, measured to fit the frame, gone through the lab routine in house or outside.
    These lenses should reflect the Rx by the examining doctor.

    3) The choice of frames and lenses should be at the recommendation and expirience of the dispensing optician and not the examining doctor, who of course can make a non binding recommendation.


    Discussuion:

    Taking above recommendations into consideration I think we should welcome consumer postings because they usually have a beef with either their frames or lenses. On the other hand they might want some advice on the technical side for choosing frames or lenses.

    We all know that in any commerce there are expierienced and not so expierienced poeple as well as ethical or not so ethical ones.

    That is why I think that all of us can learn from the expieriences, good ones as well as not so good ones made by the end user.........the consumer and should not shut them out as long as they keep their questions to technical issues.

    So......actually the question is............what can we learn from the consumer?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    1) A very open theme,......................many threads have been closed lately because of the consumers beating around medical problems that have nothing to do with this forum and have to be dealt by the examining doctor as MD or OD.

    2) However the examining doctor writes an RX to correct a vision problem which results at the end, through the involvement of the optician, in a pair of frames that either fit or they don't.
    There is also a pair of lenses included that either have been properly chosen, measured to fit the frame, gone through the lab routine in house or outside.
    These lenses should reflect the Rx by the examining doctor.

    3) The choice of frames and lenses should be at the recommendation and expirience of the dispensing optician and not the examining doctor, who of course can make a non binding recommendation.


    Discussuion:

    Taking above recommendations into consideration I think we should welcome consumer postings because they usually have a beef with either their frames or lenses. On the other hand they might want some advice on the technical side for choosing frames or lenses.

    We all know that in any commerce there are expierienced and not so expierienced poeple as well as ethical or not so ethical ones.

    That is why I think that all of us can learn from the expieriences, good ones as well as not so good ones made by the end user.........the consumer and should not shut them out as long as they keep their questions to technical issues.

    So......actually the question is............what can we learn from the consumer?
    I think this is already being handled in another thread.

  3. #3
    On the Sunset Tour! Framebender's Avatar
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    Angry I love you Chris, but. . .

    I spend about 10 hours a day working my way through all of this at the office. I don't want to do it in my down time. I don't want to have to wade through my glasses don't work right, the Dr and/or the Optician is an idiot, they're all just trying to rip me off. What should I buy for my Rx and can I get it cheaper on the internet. My response to them is basically call 1-800-BIT-EME2, see what they tell you!!

    I don't want to learn anything directly from consumers here on this board!! I learned more when we used to share stories about pia patients and situations that we encountered on a daily basis among ourselves. Remember those days? I do, and I miss them. I don't think we share as much as we used to because of the consumers on this board. I think people are a little gun shy of not looking professional. Me? I don't care. If I'm sitting here in my underwear drinking a cup of coffee I don't have to smile and be nice!

    How big is your web site list now?? What could they possibly learn here that the can't find on those web sites?? I think its easy for you to say, "What can we learn from consumers?" You're in wholesale. You don't have to deal with them. If you need a public fix open a retail store!! Work it 10 hours a day, 6 days a week, year after year. I'm willing to bet you become a little more protective of your down time too.

    Like I said, I love you bud and I've got alot of respect for you, but I am burnt out on snivling consumers trying to hitch a ride on our sympathy. To be real honest, I'll save my sympathy and my expertise for my clients. They pay for it and they deserve it!!
    Days where my gratitude exceed my expectations are very good days!

  4. #4
    Master OptiBoarder Cindy Hamlin's Avatar
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    Yes, chris, this has been posted in another thread and left to the OBers to vote and the votes have been cast.
    ~Cindy

    "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." -Catherine Aird-

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    What WE can Learn

    What we can learn is what consumers (At least those who can use a computer and are disgruntled) think of us and thier prescriber. However I think the first five or six that posted said it all. They are either very dishartened with us or extreemly cheap individuals looking for a way to "beat the system."

    As to just how much of this we want to tolerate is I suppose the prevailing question.

    Chip

    I suppose the most "feeling" of us would hope that they would point out our faults that we might correct them.:hammer:

  6. #6
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    Chip is correct and very insightful. Let's take the good, deal with it and throw the rest out.

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    Ophthalmic Optician
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    Ditto to Chip & The Bender !:cheers:

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Framebender View Post
    I learned more when we used to share stories about pia patients and situations that we encountered on a daily basis among ourselves. Remember those days? I do, and I miss them.
    Wish I had joined when it was still like that...

    :(
    It's like being a travel agent... I help people see the world!

  9. #9
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    Big Smile You dont have to deal with them ................

    Quote Originally Posted by Framebender View Post
    ...............You don't have to deal with them. If you need a public fix open a retail store!!

    ...................... but I am burnt out on snivling consumers trying to hitch a ride on our sympathy.
    Framebender, Thanks.........I have been there then tried something else and got stuck.

    Maybe I did not format the question properly..............having so many young members on this board, I thought that they might profit from issues you say have burned you out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Hamlin
    Yes, chris, this has been posted in another thread and left to the OBers to vote and the votes have been cast
    ..........and yes Cindy you are right...............but so are most subjects you can think of, they have been presented in blue but not in red. Most subjects have been covered many times over but maybe not in the same concept.

  10. #10
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    I don't understand why Optiboard allows any postings at all from consumers. The professionals who post on this site are here to learn from one another, to share their insights, to gage their colleagues' experience with new products etc. The vast majority of consumer postings tend to be tedious complaints, those trying to beat the system or plain lack of understanding about what they got. How do we benefit at all from such postings? I've learned an extraordinary amount about the optical field from this site, but none of it came from consumer postings. There's also the slight potential of litigation stemming from advising patients online.

    Ilan Hartstein, M.D

  11. #11
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    I agree with Ilan. Consumers have no place on this board, it is the "premier online community for eyecare professionals" not an advice column for eyewear consumers.

  12. #12
    Optimentor Diane's Avatar
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    Nada

    Nothing....

    Diane
    Anything worth doing is worth doing well.

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    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    It's hard to imagine sometimes that OptiBoard has actually been around longer than online shopping. ;)
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

  14. #14
    Cape Codger OptiBoard Gold Supporter hcjilson's Avatar
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    Steve once gave us a link that took you back to an old "Optical Help Wanted" page. I wonder if its still available? Pretty good fun to take a trip down memory lane.
    "Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
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  15. #15
    opti-tipster harry a saake's Avatar
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    consumers

    i agree we dont need them, also Chris have you not realized that a number of these are nothing more then so called opticians that have a problem with an rx or a frame, but do not have the guts to admit it, so they pose as a consumer

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    Optical Chemical Manufacturer
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    consumers

    Gentlemen:

    I must disagree. As professionals in the optical industry, I believe we should answer general questions for consumers regarding optical consumer products. We should refer them to a medical professional regarding questions of an individual medical condition.

  17. #17
    Optimentor Diane's Avatar
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    That's what we've done in the past

    Quote Originally Posted by LKahn View Post
    Gentlemen:

    I must disagree. As professionals in the optical industry, I believe we should answer general questions for consumers regarding optical consumer products. We should refer them to a medical professional regarding questions of an individual medical condition.

    But...they aren't settling for that. They want involvement on a personal level, and it's getting to the point that they are beginning to run the board with their long descriptions of their own medical/visual conditions.

    I've always been a huge advocate of the consumer, but the place is in the eyecare professionals office, not here.

    Just my 2.5 cents.

    Diane
    Anything worth doing is worth doing well.

  18. #18
    On the Sunset Tour! Framebender's Avatar
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    Larry. . .

    You're wholesale too aren't you?!? Why don't you open a consumer hot line/web site?? It seems to me that those of us that actually work with consumers all day long aren't as thrilled about spending our free time listening to the same thing we listen to all day long. Or you could always open a retail location and I'm sure you'll hear everything you want and more!
    Days where my gratitude exceed my expectations are very good days!

  19. #19
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    This is really an issue of reimbursement, for the time and knowledge of the skilled practitioner. What compensation is obtained, in exchange for the information given?

    If people from outside the field are friendly, and appreciative of what is provided since it is coming from outside normal channels, that may be enough compensation.

    Or if they make an attempt to inform themselves first and at least try to ask an intelligent question (even if some details are wrong), that too may be an acceptable level of compensation.


    But if people are argumentive and demanding, well that wears out the welcome, and the inclination to offer free help starts to fade. And if there seems an endless line of these argumentive and demanding people, eventually you just don't want to deal with them at all.

    Unless, of course, you are able to be in a position of extracting money out of them in exchange for having to deal with them and their belligerence. (Also commonly referred to as the appointment and exam/consultation.) ;)


    But other fields of expertise often get similar treatment, because so many people need the services but either don't understand what they need or why they need it, and aren't willing to reimburse for the knowledge and experience provided.

    I get this all the time. Someone will say to me.. "My daugther seems to have come down with an illness, These unsightly things have popped up all over, and she can't get any work done. Can you offer any advice on what it might take to cure this problem?"

    At this point, unless I see that they have tried to do at least something on their own to get the problem solved, I usually just tell them it is too complicated for me to make a diagnosis without seeing the patient and doing some tests. That will require an office call.

    But I already care for about 1300 other patients through my employer and I really don't have the free-time available to take on more patients. While I could work on the side to help their daughter, I spend so much time at the normal job that my free time is very precious and I don't like having to spend it doing even more work, even if is paid, and I can make up to $100 an hour doing it. (I've already turned down several such offers.)

    Though for those few people that do try to educate themselves in my field of expertise, for those people I am willing to go into deeper details without any monetary compensation, if it appears that they have some hope of understanding what I'm talking about, and do appreciate the expertise that I am providing to them.

    Just the other day I had to perform major surgury to clear up an intractible infection caught by a high school principal. I had to go so far as to use the Recovery Console to remove the thing since it was hiding under a rootkit. There's little hope that the common person would be able to have a clue what this involves, and so I just won't bother trying to explain unless I can bill them for my expertise.


    Oh, wait. I'm a K-12 public school IT/network administrator. This isn't the same sort of thing as optometry at all, is it? ;)

    -Javik
    Last edited by Javik; 08-18-2006 at 08:40 PM.

  20. #20
    Ophthalmic Optician
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy Canty View Post
    ... it is (paraphrase) not an advice column for eyewear consumers.
    It is now !

  21. #21
    Master OptiBoarder LENNY's Avatar
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    How about do what Vision expo does!
    Profesionals free and consumers have to pay an entrance fee!
    At least we would know that person is legit and paid some money towards prosperity of Optiboard!
    Steve!?

  22. #22
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    The website administrators would need to include a belligerence clause, commonly used over on SomethingAwful.com, for a non-professional paid-access mechanism to work.

    1. "Just because non-professionals might pay $10 to get access, doesn't mean you have a right to help, nor can you demand help. Though if you can be calm and civil and control your sarcasm, then the professionals may be willing to assist you. A condition-specific response is still not guaranteed, and we specifically disclaim that a diagnosis of any condition cannot be properly performed without a direct, physical examination by a professional."

    2. "Antagonistic non-professional individuals, who repeatedly annoy the professionals and have paid for access, may be still be evicted without recourse at any time, at the sole discretion of the site administrators. Such people may, or may not, be permitted to pay again for guest-posting access, after a certain cooling-down period has passed, again at the sole discretion of the site administrators."


    Ten bucks might sound low, but you'd be amazed by the number of potential problem-causers that amount would turn away because it doesn't seem worth the effort to pay, to just still be treated as a guest.

    How do the site administrators verify the professionals on here really are professionals, right now? Do the board admins call your offices? Require you to mail in a copy of your board certifications? Otherwise there could be any number of mere consumers slipping in, posing as professionals.


    (And finally, where should I send my $10+ compensation for that quite detailed response of "it's normal" in my insta-killed creasing thread, where I did at least try to ask an informed question that no optometrist I've spoken to IRL has been able to answer? I am serious about this.) :)

    -Javik

  23. #23
    Cape Codger OptiBoard Gold Supporter hcjilson's Avatar
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    Javik, with all due respect.

    You're thread wasn't insta killed for no reason. It was a violation of posting guidelines, which, if you had taken the time to read, would have saved you from that . Thats all we're trying to get members to do, follow the rules.Steve has always felt that this should be a no cost site, for the benefit of the professions, and our members.
    "Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
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  24. #24
    Optical Chemical Manufacturer
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    response to Framebender

    Framebender

    Actually, we are not wholesalers. We are a prime manufacturer that supplies distributors and manufacturers with tints, coatings and optical chemicals. We often get informational requests from independent optical retail stores and on an occasional consumers. As professionals we are happy to respond to and answer technical questions regarding our area of expertise. We refrain from commenting on topics where we lack knowledge. It just strikes me, that it serves our industry to be helpful when and where we have knowledge.

    Best Regards,

    Quote Originally Posted by Framebender View Post
    You're wholesale too aren't you?!? Why don't you open a consumer hot line/web site?? It seems to me that those of us that actually work with consumers all day long aren't as thrilled about spending our free time listening to the same thing we listen to all day long. Or you could always open a retail location and I'm sure you'll hear everything you want and more!

  25. #25
    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    I believe his point was that you don't sell directly to the eyewear consumer, and your interaction with consumers is undoubtedly very limited as a result.
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

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