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Thread: 14 mm progressive height...Piccolo or Brevity?

  1. #1
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    14 mm progressive height...Piccolo or Brevity?

    Don't flame, here.

    I think Shamir's lowest recommendation is 16. What is that Zeiss ad with the guy with the fingers showing 14 mm? Brevity, or Individual?

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    One of the worst people here
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    *cough* Ellipse *cough*

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    Master OptiBoarder karen's Avatar
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    don't know, the new GT2 is 17 I think.....

    do you fit PAL'a at 14? I always feel funny doing that. I know it says you can but it just doesn't seem right. Guess I am old school and remember the Gradal Top fit at 28 or even higher in a AG carlos 62 eye...those were the days!;)
    Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.

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    Rising Star Bill Mahnke's Avatar
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    And you might also consider using the HOYA Summit cd @ 14 mm. The cd fit's fine @ 14 mm but you'll need a minimum "B" measurement of 24 mm to be successful (it's always nice to give the patient some distance vision)....
    Last edited by Bill Mahnke; 08-16-2006 at 07:27 PM.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Jubilee's Avatar
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    The Brevity is 16...

    The Shamir rep showed our office a plot graph of the Piccolo vs the Ellipse. And while the Ellipse is ok'd to go to 14, at that same height, the Piccolo actually has a wider reading area.

    The lowest I have gone though is a 15.
    "Some believe in destiny, and some believe in fate. But I believe that happiness is something we create."-Something More by Sugarland

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    One eye sees, the other feels OptiBoard Silver Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    What is that Zeiss ad with the guy with the fingers showing 14 mm? Brevity, or Individual?
    I haven't seen the ad but Zeiss does make note of the Individual's 14mm corridor length below...


    Gradal Individual



    Large range of vision for each individual prescription and minimized aberrations in the peripheral zones are the hallmarks of Gradal Individual.
    Progression length: 14mm
    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

    Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.



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    If I need to and I really try to not fit at a 14, but if I have to I prefer the summit cd by far.

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    Rising Star Bill Mahnke's Avatar
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    If you've got the $$ and want to go "all the way" give the HOYA iD a try. The Summit cd design is available as a (custom produced) double-sided "Free Form" lens. That's Free Form both front and back with 100% of the add power on the back of the lens.

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    Master OptiBoarder optigrrl's Avatar
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    Dispensed the 2nd Hoya id today - 15mm. Pt. was wearing the CD in same frame previously.

    Pt. was "VERY Impressed". I want to quiz him more on where the major improvements are, I plan to give him a call in a couple of days.

    Will keep you posted in other thread: http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18494

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    Optician Extraordinaire
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    I just picked up a pair of Brevitys today. I used my frame that had my Sola Ones in it. My add went up a quarter to +2.25. These are noticably swimmer then the Sola Ones that were in the frame and my Physicos. They are at 18 high. At this height I perfer either of the other two lenses.

    My vision is good, though. I can see the computer very comfortably with them.

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    Allen Weatherby
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    14mm fitting height

    Fitting height is somewhat subjective by the manufactures. One manufacturer may say 17mm minimum fitting height but this lens may actually perform better than another with a 16mm mimimum fitting height.

    PAL design dynamics must consider corridor length as well as fitting height and all designs corridor lenghts are not calculated in the same manner. Typically the Japanese in general are more conservative with fitting height recommendations.

    In my opinion an 11mm corridor lenght measured to the Japanese standard is almost too small. This lenght can be fitted and work with a minimum fitting height of 15mm but will work with less. Just like the 13mm length has a recommended 17mm minimum fitting height. These designs are based on a design where the fitting point and the geometric center are the same, while most other designs have a fitting point about 3 to 5mm higher.

    Fitting height alone is not the complete answer, it is what the industry has adapted as a defacto standard meaning something more than what it truely is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    Don't flame, here.

    I think Shamir's lowest recommendation is 16. What is that Zeiss ad with the guy with the fingers showing 14 mm? Brevity, or Individual?
    Zeiss Individual FrameFit is 14 mm to to 20mm.

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    OptiWizard
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    Quote Originally Posted by karen View Post
    don't know, the new GT2 is 17 I think.....

    do you fit PAL'a at 14? I always feel funny doing that. I know it says you can but it just doesn't seem right. Guess I am old school and remember the Gradal Top fit at 28 or even higher in a AG carlos 62 eye...those were the days!;)
    Ah, the good old days. I'm pretty sure you could get Carlos with a 24 bridge too, if you needed it.

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    Sola AO Compact Progressive

    Quote Originally Posted by tntborden View Post
    Ah, the good old days. I'm pretty sure you could get Carlos with a 24 bridge too, if you needed it.

    My favorite PAL for a low seg height is a Sola AO Compact Progressive. It fits a 14-16 mm min. seg.

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    Master OptiBoarder keithbenjamin's Avatar
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    One of THE best short progressive lens designs you've never heard of (may be a little hard to find) is the Tokai 1.70-13 Progressive. We have been surfacing Tokai for almost 2 years and have had maybe one non-adapt in that time. In fact, our president wears it, and she just switched back to it from her new Hoya iD.

    http://www.laramyk.com/products/tokai.html

    -Keith

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    Rising Star rob.optician's Avatar
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    shamir piccolo in a 15 or 14?

    I've been told, by the Shamir rep., that the piccolo can be fit in a 14 mm. seg height. That person also told me that I can put the Shamir Genesis Poly - at 18 mm.

    Problem with this: The manufacturer's recommended height is still 16 mm for piccolo and 21 for Genesis Poly.

    What this means: Most labs WILL NOT WARRANT these lenses if they end up not working with the patient...b/c when you look up in your progressive lens identifier you'll see very different #'s than what that rep. told me.


    For me, a red flag goes up immediately when the rep. is pushing something contrary to what their own company's reading material states.

    and if it's really not that big of a deal...change the reading material. otherwise...I'm covering my tracks...
    ABOC, NCLC, CPO, FNAO

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