Ovation Small fit lenses

**LENNY** · 08-12-2006, 10:22 PM

What are the Ovation Small Fit lenses?
Another Chain only Discounted only for them lens?

**rainchild** · 08-13-2006, 10:14 AM

I haven't heard of these...what is the fitting height of this lens? if it's ovation it has to be a better price than elipse. I have been pretty happy with ovation lenses. I'll have to check these out.

**For-Life** · 08-13-2006, 11:24 AM

I noticed that they are a couple bucks more than the Ellipse. Does that even make sense?

**Clive Noble** · 08-13-2006, 02:10 PM

We've been fitting Ovation for a few years now, it's a great lens and can be fit as low as 17mm (18 better) and very good at 22 upwards.

We also refer to it in our price list/catalogue as 'small fit' or 'low fit'

**Audiyoda** · 08-13-2006, 02:49 PM

Most labs refer to the Ovation as a lower fit progressive. That's it's default category in DVI RX.

**rainchild** · 08-13-2006, 07:54 PM

I thought the low fit reference was to a really small fitting ie 14 mm. I thought I had missed something new. We use mostly ovations now in all our materials (plastic to hi index) it's a great overall lens.

Originally Posted by Clive Noble

We've been fitting Ovation for a few years now, it's a great lens and can be fit as low as 17mm (18 better) and very good at 22 upwards.

We also refer to it in our price list/catalogue as 'small fit' or 'low fit'

**LENNY** · 08-13-2006, 08:52 PM

It looks like we did!
I saw it today on Ebay But I dont see it anymore!
(I am not crazy)
They were in Poly and were called Ovation Small fit with 14 or 15 min fitting height!?

**DPalmer** · 08-13-2006, 10:16 PM

It is true new ovation small fit 14 mm fitting height I just got info on it about a week ago .

Lenny pm me or e-mail me your fax # and I will send you the info I have

**Jacqui** · 08-13-2006, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by LENNY

It looks like we did!
I saw it today on Ebay But I dont see it anymore!
(I am not crazy)
They were in Poly and were called OPvation Small fit with 14 or 15 min fitting height!?

I seen them too and now they're gone

**LENNY** · 08-14-2006, 07:09 AM

Good!
I am NOT crazy!

**Pete Hanlin** · 08-14-2006, 04:19 PM

http://www.essilorlenses.com/NonVarilux/elart.htm

Click on the button titled "Small Fit" for technical information on Ovation Small Fit.

Best regards,
Pete

**For-Life** · 08-14-2006, 04:34 PM

Pete, you are leaving us hanging. Why was this lens introduced and why is it more expensive than the Ellipse?

**Pete Hanlin** · 08-15-2006, 10:22 AM

Sorry, I didn't intend to leave any mystery.

As has been oft noted, Essilor produces lenses for two distinct channels- the private practice & retailers (chains). Although Varilux Ellipse has done incredibly well as a "short" PAL design in the private practice channel, until the launch of Ovation Small Fit, Essilor did not have a PAL design to offer the chains for fitting heights below 17mm.

Regarding the price, any comment I might offer would be mere speculation- since I am not involved in pricing decisions. Although I know people like to compare Varilux vs. Essilor PALs, they are different designs intended for different markets. While I'm sure there is some thought given to the relative price points of each lens, I don't believe one line strongly influences the other.

Personally, based on my knowledge of both lines, were I in private practice I would dispense Varilux products. Besides the Varilux designs themselves, the Varilux line simply fits better (by design) with the business model of the private practitioner. Likewise, if I were running a retail chain, I would use the Essilor line of products.

Could a private practitioner successfully use Ovation & Ovation Small Fit as their PALs of choice? Sure, they're great designs. In the long run, will that practitioner be as successful as s/he might be with Varilux Physio & Varilux Ellipse? Probably not... Likewise, although the Varilux name might have some appeal within a Luxottica-owned chain store, the chain environment is better suited for products which can fashioned and marketed to fit the needs of the chain's identity. The POP and support provided to the private practitioner to help communicate to the private practice patient would be largely wasted on the retail chain customer- who have their own internal POP and communication methods.

**akeroptical** · 08-15-2006, 06:49 PM

As an optician I think what Essilor does is a bit underhanded with different brands.

The fact that you claim superior product in the Varilux line offered to independants but then are willing to release a "different" product to the chains is hard for me to believe. Sorry if I am wrong but no matter how you approach the answer your on touchy ground.

Straight forward questions:

Are Varilux lenses better than Essilor lenses?
Are they indeed different lenses?
Should the chains be telling people that independant Opticians can fit them with better lenses?

I've been dispensing for about 12 years and the whole Varlilux line seems to be good product backed by better hype.

I've been told Panamic=Ovation, Comfort=Natural.
So now what Ellipse=Smallfit.

Seems like a carny shell game to me.

**loncoa** · 08-15-2006, 08:59 PM

How about whether 14mm fitting heights work well or are even desirable? I think most of us have noticed that it comes at the expense of intermediate area. Now, before I hear all the, "well, this or that patient doesn't use the computer much etc", I'm pretty sure we've also noticed that people are constantly using the intermediate area in an endless amount of situations without even realizing it. So, considering that even "traditional" corridors have what I feel are "tiny" intermediate zones, how useful is a lens which has almost no intermediate at all? And again, before you flip, I realize that it WILL sell. And sell well. The question is, is it good from a function standpoint?

**loncoa** · 08-15-2006, 09:02 PM

P.S. we do fit Ovation and we will not fit it at less than 17mm with at least another 8mm above the fitting cross. I realize this has nothing to do with the intermediate but everything to do with the function of the other areas. We don't just fit at 14 because Essilor says so. We analyze the lenses ourselves and decide how much power is where.

**rainchild** · 08-15-2006, 09:28 PM

IN regards to the elipse...they are not a really good choice for patients with an add power in excess of +2.00 these patients are too aware of the missing mid range during day to day use...(although I have a couple of employees in the +2.50 range who swear by them but I think that's because they are educated about the product and don't miss what they weren't expecting to get)

The Ovation and the Panamic are not the same design. We sell ovation as our model of choice...but have found the panamic to work better for certain customers.

**For-Life** · 08-15-2006, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by loncoa

P.S. we do fit Ovation and we will not fit it at less than 17mm with at least another 8mm above the fitting cross. I realize this has nothing to do with the intermediate but everything to do with the function of the other areas. We don't just fit at 14 because Essilor says so. We analyze the lenses ourselves and decide how much power is where.

Ovation Small Fit is a different lens than the Ovation

**Pete Hanlin** · 08-16-2006, 10:51 AM

Since I've heard these thoughts- in one form or another- from several eye care practitioners during my travels, I'll try to provide a few comments...

As an optician I think what Essilor does is a bit underhanded with different brands. The fact that you claim superior product in the Varilux line offered to independants but then are willing to release a "different" product to the chains is hard for me to believe. Sorry if I am wrong but no matter how you approach the answer your on touchy ground.
Selling the same products to both private practitioners and retail chains would serve the needs of neither group. Private practitioners demand a quality product which is not available in the chains (e.g., Luxottica frames, which are of excellent quality, are virtually boycotted by most private practices due to their availability at LensCrafters). Retailers have little desire for a branded product which would be available at other retailers (thus encouraging "price shopping" between the chains).

Straight forward questions: Which I will try to answer straightforwardly...
Are Varilux lenses better than Essilor lenses?
By my count, Essilor currently produces 12 different PAL designs, and I have access to them all. That said, one of my parents is wearing a Varilux Physio, and the other wears a Varilux Panamic (does that answer your question?).
Seriously though, is a Ford better than a Mazda? Not being elusive- merely pointing out that Varilux & Essilor PALs are designed by seperate teams which employ different technologies. Yes, they share some of the same databases of knowledge, but the PALs are based on different technologies. Varilux Physio certainly "works better" than Essilor Ovation, but I'm sure if you asked the individual design teams, they would say their solutions work the best (its not like one team "sandbags," producing designs that aren't quite as good as they could create).

Are they indeed different lenses?
Every time this question comes up, it surprises me. After all, the lenses have different minimum fitting heights, different base curves, and have different engravings. Additionally, try wearing an Ovation and a Varilux Panamic (or Varilux Physio) in duplicate frames with duplicate fitting paramenters- then ask yourself if they are the same design. Yes, they are different products.

Should the chains be telling people that independant Opticians can fit them with better lenses?
Again, should a Ford dealer tell customers that Mazdas are better? Perhaps Volvo should direct customers to the Jaguar dealership (all the above are owned by Ford at the moment and carry products with similar performance paramenters aimed at different markets). Sadly enough, the most important determinent in how a PAL works is the accuracy of the fit! A properly fit Ovation will outperform a poorly fit Varilux Panamic, so it all comes down to the skill of the dispenser.
Additionally, when you go to Wal-Mart for a shirt that costs $5.86, you're expecting to receive a shirt that will function well- but you aren't expecting the same quality as you would from a $35.99 shirt from JC Penney. WalMart's business model is to provide quality products at low prices- Varilux doesn't fit into that model very well, but Ovation does.

I've been dispensing for about 12 years and the whole Varlilux line seems to be good product backed by better hype.
I'm glad you appreciate the quality of the product (and the marketing ;^). In my optician days, I dispensed Varilux products (along with PALs from Sola, Rodenstock, Pentax, Kodak). I found they worked as well (and often times quite a bit better) than anything else. Of course, I used good fitting techniques- and with good fitting, there shouldn't have a problem with more than 2% of the PALs dispensed- regardless of design.

I've been told Panamic=Ovation, Comfort=Natural. So now what Ellipse=Smallfit.
My father used to say, "Believe 1/2 of what you see, and none of what you hear." Good advice in this case (well, except what you hear from me- of course ;^).

Seems like a carny shell game to me.
To be honest, it seemed that way to me as well prior to working for Essilor. Over the past four years, I've had the pleasure to work closely with independent & ELOA labs, retail chain & private practice buying agents, independent Opticians and Optometrists & those working in a retail environment, 3rd party administrators, internal & external marketing departments, and advertising agencies. I've had the opportunity to hear and learn from their perspective of the ophthalmic market.

What I've learned is this- the ophthalmic business is very complex. For the most part, it is comprised of hard-working folks who are making an honest effort to prosper using their business model. In any field, business models will clash- which often creates animosity (after all, people's livelihoods are tied to those business models).

Retail chains comprise roughly 52% of the ophthalmic market in the US. The people employed at retailers are neither evil nor unqualified- they simply have a different business model than the private practitioner. Ironically, both groups benefit from the other! Retailers provide volume which require manufacturers to increase efficiency (which results in quicker service times for all). Private practices allow for constant development of new technologies and design concepts (typically, new design concepts are launched to private practitioners before being launched on the retail side).

**LENNY** · 08-16-2006, 03:48 PM

Pete!
You realy took time to answer this!!!!!!!!!!!11;)

**Pete Hanlin** · 08-16-2006, 05:27 PM

Like I mentioned, these questions do come up from time to time (and they were questions I had as an Optician myself)- so I hope I've provided rational (if not entirely satisfactory to everyone) answers to them.

In our market (actually, in quite a few markets around the world), retail & private practice represent two very different channels to the consumer. Third party providers are quickly playing an increasingly large role as well. These channels present challenges to each other- and the manufacturers who provide products and services to them.

(Dang, that sounds like some sick public service announcement- sorry! But the observations are heartfelt.)

**akeroptical** · 08-16-2006, 07:52 PM

I like your response!

Thanks:cheers:

**loncoa** · 08-17-2006, 03:28 PM

I remember that quite a few of the "corporate training" companies offered a course called "Overcoming Objections". This is a mentality I'm quite fond of...NOT!

**Spexvet** · 08-17-2006, 06:41 PM

Pete, when I followed your link and clicked on small fit, it took me to the Panamic page.

Found it - it's on sheet 319.

**Pete Hanlin** · 08-17-2006, 09:39 PM

Spexvet,

I just clicked on the site, and something is screwed up (it was fine the other day). This usually occurs when they post additions and the server gets confused. I'll put a note in to the technical folks who keep this information up-to-date and they should have if fixed in a day or so. Beyond the basecurve chart (which you found) there is also a tech sheet and list of available materials, Rx range, etc.

Best regards,
Pete