The battery in the Sonata Hybrid is a lithium polymer battery different from that used in the Prius and other hybrids and definitly a superior technology. In addition the Sonata Hybrid has about 100 more horsepower than the Prius along with a lot more interior room.
BTW, when I drive from Gold Hill, OR to Portland, OR I burn a tank of gas. I usually visit my local gas station twice a week!
I proudly support big oil. I get a Christmas Card from Chevron and you dont.
The thing is we do not need to get oil from there. We have more oil here in the states than all of the middle east. With the recent findings in North and South Dakota, and all the shale out west. We have enough oil here to take care of our needs and have enough to export.
Then Brazil has huge reserves of oil. So right now the focus should be on North and South America. We do not need middle east oil.
With that said we could use this oil and continue our quest for alternative sources of energy. I'm not talking about electric either. Electricity has to come from somewhere. Our electrical infostructure could not handle everybody charging thier cars all the time. The electrical grid is already over capacitated.
Natural Gas Vehicles
The time is now
The power grid can handle car charging if done at night. In fact, excess power and generating capacity get wasted at night. EVs are not for long distance driving. Right now, they are for errands around town, but even so, that is about 80% of my driving. Even I will admit that some use of ICEs will be necessary for some time to come.
I forget the exact statistic, but burning oil in one power plant to produce more electricity for EVs is still more efficient and less polluting than burning it in 100,000 (or some ridiculous number) of cars.
Natural gas technology has been around for decades but it doesn't catch on...partly because the tanks necessary to run a car are huge and partly because there is no "ready-to-go" gas up infrastructure.
I would love to be able to get an EV to zip around town and for SHORT excursions, they just make sense. I drove a 4th gen prius for a couple of years and felt like a tin can. The fit and finish was poor and it was loud at highway speed. My old TDI jetta on the other hand was a dream, quiet and powerful. Took a new prius out about a year ago and was quite impressed, but not there yet. I'd be happy if the wife would let us trade in the TDI beetle for the new Subaru imprezas XT.
Couple of things...
1. If you are looking for a short excursion, reasonably priced EV, look into the Mitsubishi imiev.
2. There is no 4th generation Prius. Gen 3 came out in 2010, so I'm not sure how you could have driven one for a few years several years ago. The closest thing to a 4th generation Prius is perhaps the new plug in version, or the wagon, or the C model, but these are built on the Gen 3 platform.
3. Noise? The gen 3 is one of the quietest cars I have ever owned, even at highway speeds. In the city, the ICE is off half the time. Is a Prius really noisier than a diesel??? I call BS on this one. Maybe you have noisy tires.
4. Fit and finish...much better than a corolla, about the same as a Camry. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
5. Power...it's designed to get 50 mpg, all day long. It's not a race car. Your diesel cannot get the same mileage in city driving.
We won't even talk about the tailpipe emissions....
EV's and hybrids are where it is at for city commuting, ICE's are not meant to be driven less than 7 miles from a cold start. They are just starting to evolve to meet the needs of longer range commuting.
Might have been wrong on the Prius gen then, I drove it new between 2008 and 2010, just before the latest generation. All I can say is that I preferred my VW, the prius was to loud and drove like a golf cart, one could manage the snow and rain only with the traction control off and snow tires, several scarry momments when the TC kicked in stalling the car out in cross traffic. I put about 60k on it. During this same time there was a Lexus rx400h in the fleet, a blast to drive, but one couldn't get more that 23 out of it. It's not just about power, modern cars are vastly overpowered. Add in safety, comfort, and reliability.
Driving, to me, is very much about the experience and comfort. I have a Range Rover that is very dear to me even with the horrendous fuel mileage. It's safe and very comfy but I would do anything to get a diesel LR4 to replace it. The tdi's are heavy cars with ample insulation, drive like they are on rails and when I take my time I can get an honest 50 mpg from them. And it's usually the tire noise interacting with the pavement, never hear the engine after initial start-up. Now the old cummins powered dodge will rattle your fillings out and cause deafness, but that is purpose built.
I don't mean to bash on hybrids, they have come a long ways. I was cruising through the local Toyota and Chrysler dealership to get a feel for the new Grand Cherokee coming out, which is still no match for a 10 year old rover. While there I passed the new Avalon hybrid and it was a gorgeous car that will need a future evaluation.
Emissions are very small player in the game, I take a look at the overall picture and really strive to recycle and reuse things. Being able to understand and work on my cars is the goal in anything I own. I would love to run bio-diesel, but I don't have the resources at the moment to do so.
While not specifically addressing the hybrid the following article from the IEEE Specrum might give you some interesting information.
Unclean at Any SpeedElectric cars don’t solve the automobile’s environmental problems
http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/rene...n-at-any-speed
So the author built an electric car himself once...that makes him an energy/environmental expert? The article has no scientific facts in it. It's all one man's opinion. And I guess because he picked a clever name for the article, after Ralph Nader's "Unsafe at any speed", that makes the article credible.
He's right about one thing though, that walking, biking and mass transportation are less polluting than using electric cars.
You are indeed entitled to your opinion.
The IEEE Spectrum is a peer reviewed journal of the Institute of Electrical Electronics Engineers. My guess is that the article is about as credible as any article appearing in Optometry - Journal of the American Optometric Association.
Him citing that he doesn't think a safe EV can be manufactured because he tried to do it once himself is totally unscientific. His statement about rare earth elements in electric motors is wrong, yada, yada, yada. The article was obviously written with political motives, and for opinion expression, not scientific ones. You're just drinking the Kool-Aid...
I don't find it necessary to jab opticianry because you took one at optometry, in a thread that has nothing to do with either profession. I'll just consider the source and let that one slide.
I want a hybrid mini van.
I would give most anything for one of these:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-show...-bulli-concept
although there are plenty of early VW mircobuses around here to retrofit.
This was taken from a member of IEEE..."I am also an electrical engineer and a member of the IEEE and I am not sure why the IEEE would publish this uneducated article? The author, Ozzie Zehner, is a sociologist who is making a profit by making unsupported and misleading claims about alternative energy. I am disappointed that the IEEE would publish opinion that is not based on facts."
I remember seeing something (years ago) about GM making a fuel cell platform they dubbed "The Skateboard". Looked just like it sounded. 4 independently powered wheels on a maybe 18 inch thick frame thingy with the fuel cells in it. Coolest thing in my opinion, was it allowed for a completely modular body concept. So you could get a sedan, a van, a pick-up, or even a custom made classic body if you wanted, all bolted on to the same fuel cell platform. That seems like a pretty sweet idea to me, simply because the style of hybrids/electrics have really been lacking. There is a quote from the film "The Other Guys" that pretty much sums it up for me. I won't repeat it, but some of you know what I'm talking about.
Patient, ".. Doctor says I have a subscription for stigmata.. Can you fill that?"
Me, "..Um.. "
Get em while their hot!
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...026/1148/rss25
I hit a smart car today. The car was totaled, but don't worry...my bicycle's fine!
(not really, but I couldn't resist)
I drove leisurely along the shore today for a few hours, got 62 mpg, passed all the bicycles...real deal.
It's been 2 years, Anyone get a Tesla?
ooh, that's a trike in reverse with some fiberglass.
Hey y'all. First time I have posted anything in awhile. I wonder if anyone that is onboard here has a VW diesel that is going to be subject to the smog emissions-related recalls. Not me, I'm happy to say. I wonder if at the end of the line, VW may actually have to install complete new engines and maybe even transmissions in some of the older model vehicles that are expected to be subject to recall. I guess that can't happen, though. Would DOT just have it so that VW will be able to offer the owners of any of the older model vehicles a buyback or buyout option? So many unknowns at this early juncture.
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