Help!

**Karenrp1956** · 06-07-2006, 02:13 PM

We have three offices, one does the surfacing and edging. I have received more than one job with problems and I want to know if it is me or them. the one in my hands now is: o.d -.50 -1.25 x 97, o.s. -.50-1.00 x 75. The lens are cr39 with crizal going into a Viva's rectangle candie zyl. The lens are bowing in the middle and will not sit in the groove of the frame. I have an ellipse in poly, -4.50 -.50 x 70 os -4.25 with 2.00 add that was cut to a nicole miller cancan, the lens are bowing in the middle not sittin into the groove of the frame. This frame is not totally rectangle.
We have anew edger with an not so understanding of a person that runs the edger. He is rushed and hurries through alot of jobs.
i need to know am I not frame stylying these rxs correctly or do I need to have a talk with the doc.

**Judy Canty** · 06-07-2006, 02:18 PM

Check the center thickness.

**shanbaum** · 06-07-2006, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Karenrp1956

We have three offices, one does the surfacing and edging. I have received more than one job with problems and I want to know if it is me or them. the one in my hands now is: o.d -.50 -1.25 x 97, o.s. -.50-1.00 x 75. The lens are cr39 with crizal going into a Viva's rectangle candie zyl. The lens are bowing in the middle and will not sit in the groove of the frame. I have an ellipse in poly, -4.50 -.50 x 70 os -4.25 with 2.00 add that was cut to a nicole miller cancan, the lens are bowing in the middle not sittin into the groove of the frame. This frame is not totally rectangle.
We have anew edger with an not so understanding of a person that runs the edger. He is rushed and hurries through alot of jobs.
i need to know am I not frame stylying these rxs correctly or do I need to have a talk with the doc.

Are you saying that the curvature of the top edge of the lens (viewed from above) is steeper than that of the frame?

**Mojo** · 06-07-2006, 02:33 PM

Common prob.

We had this prob with all our small "B" frames.

Any frame with a B measurement needs to have the bevel ran towards the front of the lens.

I usually run any lens with a b of <30 on a 27% bevel(from the front). Also andd maybe a +.10 to the lens size on the zyls.

Works every time for me.

**C-10** · 06-07-2006, 02:43 PM

The problem here is the lens is a big or lens is a little long in the B measurement when the lenses is a little long it creates a bow & arrow effect if you hand edged the nasal and temple portion at the top of the lenses you will find that the eye wire will pull up.

**Karenrp1956** · 06-07-2006, 03:23 PM

so there is aproblem with the person making the lens and not making sure the lens fits correctly?

**optical24/7** · 06-07-2006, 03:42 PM

I agree with c-10, the lens is too long, (but I call it the A measurement) Remove a little from the nasal and tempral area and it should fit fine. I do find many factory paterns too long in the A ( lam'y & Revolution in particular) and either grind the pattern by hand or make a new pattern myself rather than have to touch up the lens itself.

**Karenrp1956** · 06-07-2006, 03:45 PM

thanks i get these from my other store and have to send them back when something like this happens. the person i send them to does not like to redo, or in this instance finish

**AWTECH** · 06-07-2006, 04:54 PM

Most edgers built today are build base on the fact that prescription lenses were typically oval or large radius corners, (aviator style as example). When these edgers were designed the thought of an almost square frame was not considered. Now to properly edge lenses for many of todays frame becomes very difficult.

Every edging technician making todays square type frame has his own developed, (or passed along technique). To make edging work like it used to edgers need to be designed from a clean sheet of paper.

In addition to the above the larger picture is todays three axis edgers have their limitations. To properly edge any job the bevel should follow relative to the angle based on the spherical curve of the lens, or in the case of a non spherical lens it should follow in a manner only a four axis machine can produce. For most flat base curves up to 6 base large wheel 3 axis edgers will work at a cost effective level but not absolutely correct geometricly. The bevel would follow radius of the sphere and a big difference between A and B measurements produces more pronounce errors. This is a serious issue in 8 base front curve wrap style frames. Here traditional three axis edgers with large wheels will not do a proper job.

Some of todays edgers may do an acceptable job on squares and sharpe corners but there are limitations due to the geometry of the wheels.

**loncoa** · 06-07-2006, 05:35 PM

It definitely sounds like whoever is doing your edging has a "communication problem". They need to realize that you are their internal customer. They don't have the option of being rude or unhelpful to you. If you have to speak to the OD to make that clear, do so. If their lenses do not fit the frame correctly they have a problem they need to address. If they are rushing through their work and it's poor quality...and so on, and so on.

**For-Life** · 06-07-2006, 06:02 PM

ya, the lens is too big. Try cutting .05 or .1mm down and it should fit in nicely.

**Karenrp1956** · 06-08-2006, 11:32 AM

I have an excuse of one of the frames where to be cold mounted and was not. I looked at the temples and there is nothing about cold mounting on the temples. I called the company and they said yes, mount cold. Those of you that cut and mount lens, how do you know that a frame is to be cold mounted if it is not edged on the inside of the temple.

**C-10** · 06-08-2006, 11:48 AM

we mount all our zly frames cold mount and sorry I did my mistake I should of said a measurement

**DoubleD** · 06-08-2006, 01:08 PM

Much experience with these situations.
Not always in the edging, much left to the insertion/assembly area. High curves and or low "B" measure in respect to eyesize can require some special frame bending prior to insertion. That is if the individual frame can be adjusted in that shape.
Some of today's frames, such as cold insertion are a problem.

**Robert Martellaro** · 06-08-2006, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Judy Canty

Check the center thickness.

Flexure can definitely be part of the problem, remedied by surfacing instead of using finished blanks.

**Fezz** · 06-08-2006, 02:32 PM

I agree with Robert...

I believe a lot of this type of situation is caused by lens flexture. Which also raises the point of power changes due to this problem. I have found that polycarbonate tends to be the worst. To remedy, I often order surfaced as Robert mentioned or ordered stock with thicker centers (1.5 or 2.0 poly instead of 1.0). This may defeat the purpose of some thinner lenses, designs, but a Zyl frame hides so much of the thickness already.

I believe that AWTECH is correct in his explanation of edger design, bevel issues, and limitations to be true.

Fezz
:cheers:

**LauraH** · 06-08-2006, 03:12 PM

I agree the A measurement is too long. I certainly would not just edge down the whole lens but rather just take a little off both ends. Does your office have a hand edger in it? If not, and this is a constant problem you might consider investing in one. I have found that it is much easier to fix little things like that myself with a hand edger and then address the problem with the person in the lab at later time then send the lens back and make the patient wait longer for our mistake.

**C-10** · 06-08-2006, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Fezz

I agree with Robert...

I believe a lot of this type of situation is caused by lens flexture. Which also raises the point of power changes due to this problem. I have found that polycarbonate tends to be the worst. To remedy, I often order surfaced as Robert mentioned or ordered stock with thicker centers (1.5 or 2.0 poly instead of 1.0). This may defeat the purpose of some thinner lenses, designs, but a Zyl frame hides so much of the thickness already.

I believe that AWTECH is correct in his explanation of edger design, bevel issues, and limitations to be true.

Fezz
:cheers:

centre thicknes has nothing to do with it. It's lens size believe me I have been edgeing for 40 years

**chip anderson** · 07-03-2009, 03:00 PM

Anybody got Colmascope or a Polariscope and know how to use it?
Look for stress, relieve stress.
Also check curve of lens and make sure frame has similar curve, if not modify by hand.

Chip

**RustyS** · 07-03-2009, 07:51 PM

OK i quickly glanced through threads so i might have missed something good, but this happened to me a lot with my edger. This might seem like a ridiculous post with the experts on here but i did a one eye trace keeping OS side out of clamps and entered FPD or traced demo.

Please feel free to flame at leisure but i had same problem and this worked, but I dont know your hardware

**Bob MacNeil** · 07-03-2009, 08:20 PM

The frame is ejecting the lens, remind the lab to shape the frame to fit the lens, it will stop popping out. The use of a polariscope will tell the tale.

Bob

**LilKim** · 07-03-2009, 10:06 PM

The nasal and temporal bevels need to be shelved. I had to do that a dozen times a day, having to put a minus lens into these narrow B zyl frames. If they don't know how to shelf the bevel to fit, read the link below. It's not difficult to do on a hand-edger, should take them a minute or two for the pair. You rarely see this problem with a plus Rx.

http://www.2020mag.com/ViewContent/t...8/Default.aspx

If he's too lazy to bother with making sure the lenses are mounted properly before he sends them on to final inspection, find someone else to do your edging.

**cocoisland58** · 07-04-2009, 11:06 AM

We take a bit off the size in the edger as well as the nasal and temporal on the handstone. Ordering a flatter lens helps also. Whomever you have running your finish lab is not taking their job very seriously are they? Eventually these things catch up with you when the patients get tired of waiting for their glasses that have to be sent back or wondering why their lens is popping out. You are only as good as the product that comes out of your lab. Too much competition out there to dispense anything but your best workmanship.