Round them all up and put them to work building a border barrier fence!
Round them all up and put them to work building a border barrier fence!
The illegal immigration problem is like the war on drugs. There is a demand for illegal immigrants, in the US. Folks here hire them, pay them pittance (under the table), and think it's really not wrong to do so. Meanwhile, the workers don't contribute to the tax base, and use services that would have been paid for with their taxes, had they been paid lawfully. And the illegals take jobs away from Americans. Americans don't want to do those jobs? They will if the jobs paid a reasonable wage with benefits, above the table. Oh, but then prices would rise for products and services. Not necessarily. Not if earnings were capped at $150 million per lifetime! The increase in the wage for an American citizen to pick grapes could be offset by lower earnings by the filthy rich! Wow, now there's a segue! Everybody wins, the exceptionally wealthy just don't win as much.Originally Posted by karen
No offense, but this statement just shows that there really is no such thing as a "compassionate conservative", and illustrates why there is a need for government programs. The dilemma (sp?) will not be resolved by a private sector with this mindset. It seems conservatives primarily want to conserve their own wealth (and power). :p
See, I figured because I wasn't saying " Kick them out and do it now, who gives a rat's behind what they do for us" that I WAS being compassionate. If we fined the private sector like we should be for hiring folks they shouldn't be we could use that money to fund some of this stuff. Sorry, but I'm not breaking the law, why should I have to pay? I'll bet the people who send billions of dollars back to their families in Mexico want to keep as much of it as they can too. I watched the coverage of all the protests yesterday and was amazed by the lack of knowledge on both sides. I watched them interview a high school girl that is angry because we want to "kick all the Mexicans out" Excuse me??? I want to kick ALL the Mexicans out? I wasn't aware I was wanting to do that. My boss is Mexican. I sure hope he gets to stay.... :hammer: Oh wait, he is here legally....
Let's break some more laws and walk onto the FREEWAY for God's sake, that will show 'em.
I listened to Bill O'Reilly yesterday morning and I thought he had an excellent solution. To bad the windbags on BOTH sides don't go to him for suggestions.
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
Don't get upset. I put the smilie beside my conservative comment and asked you not to get offended!
There's obviously a problem here. I just don't think it will get fixed:
- Business doesn't want to lose the cheap labor.
- Politicians don't want to lose the hispanic vote.
- Mexico doesn't want all those people in Mexico.
- Wealthy people don't want to pay more for gardebers and domestic help.
- Business doesn't want to lose all those consumers.
- Conservatives don't want to pay to keep them out or to round them up.
Most Americans, including me, want the problem fixed. How do we overcome all those obstacles.
Remember this?
http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...ghlight=mexico
I think the McCain/Kennedy proposal has merit. I do worry about the downward pressure on wages to those who can least afford it. But it appears it's time to face facts and practice "realpolitik".
Was doing some reading about permanent "guest worker" programs--don't think this is part of any of the current proposals? Appears to be a bad idea all around, creates a permanent underclass and deters assimilation. Also interesting that despite the Chicken Little bit, the immigration into the US was higher in the early 1900s than now (not just proportionally, in absolute numbers). So the moral I guess is, this too shall pass.
This is one of those moments in time when the leadership of the country has an opportunity to educate and inspire its citizens. I agree with Bush's statement (write this day down...) that we need to have the confidence that we can embrace immigrants, and that we and they can prosper. I'm not holding my breath.
Ahh, the wonders of marketing. They say "guest worker", I say "indentured servant". It all starts with worker's rights. Seriously.
And Karen? Bill O'Reilly is a tool. I realize that posting a link to this particular site will set off a fresh round of "kill the messenger", but take the time to read (and listen to) some of the examples. Today's example of O'Reilly flat-out lying about Krugman's NYT column would be a good start, and germane to the discussion.
I totally agree. BUT it was a good plan and I thought it had merit. I drive all day so talk radio is sort of a staple for me. And though I am a Republican through and through both Rush and Sean irritate me with their absolute refusal to consider anyone else's point. So Bill it is from 9 to 11. He at least will call both sides out when they do something silly. My favorite is John and Ken from 3-??? Talk about being riled up about the immigration issue....I am hoping they start up another "political human sacrifice" this summer! :bbg:
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
Maybe you're not quite republican through and through, since that's my perception of how the typical true blue conservative republican is (Chip, Darris, etc.). Maybe, God forbid, you are a free thinking moderate! (Like I am)
See that's just it. Both sides stereotype the other and make assumptions based on that stereotype (I do it too) I really agree with too many conservative things to be a moderate so I guess that would make me a free thinking conservative....Chip says quite a few things that I agree with, we just say things differently. And being a salesperson I try to get others to consider my side by being a bit more toned down than he is. But I am pretty sure if you asked us the same 10 questions about political or moral issues that required just a yes or no we would line up on most if not all of them.
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
So take this one and share the results.
It's a neat test, and there's some really illuminating analysis once you've taken it. It certainly changed the way I think about political leanings. I'd say more, but I'd be spoiling bits of it--take the test first.
!?!?!?!?!?!? No such thing! :D:p
It's not the yes/no or black/white question that show the real you. It's what you choose when presented with shades of grey. I hope your answers wouldn't be consistent with Chip's, when it comes to grey issues. And something tells me it would be totally different when presented with black/white (racial) questions. Ask him about your Mexican boss.
I took this once before, should have saved it to see how close it was...
economic left/right 0.63
social libertarian/ authoritarian 2.36
ended up in the right/authoritarian quadrant but nowhere close to Hilter (sigh of relief) I am right next to Gerhard Schroeder and admit to knowing nothing about him so I will look him up and see if I should be ashamed.
Spexie, take this and tell me where you ended up so we can see how close we really are-or aren't
edit-eeek, just looked him up....Social Democrat??? I have to get my hubby to take this.
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
Look Chip doesn't have any trouble with Black People, or Mexicans (Spanish they seem to prefer), or East Indians, or Hawiians or any other race if they are self sufficent productive, personally hygenic people.
Chip has trouble with and person that does not fit the above profile unless they have genuine physical or mental limitations.
The difference between me and liberals is they don't want to exclude the people who do not have such limitations.
If you have trouble with this and want to be a bleeding heart for everyone, tough.
Chip
Chip also doesn't like Sean Hannity, Rush, or Michael Savage even thought their egos might qualify them for being limited. And I do have to give all of them credit for pointing out some problems in our society that might otherwise be unrecognised.
Let me restate: "Chip likes people who look like him, dress like him, think like him, smell like him and want to be like him" (sung to the tune of "the real slim shady")
What about people who have different cultural values? Are you tolerant of them?
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -4.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.18
I am a sharing anarchist. It looks like were opposites, Babe. I'm near Nelson Mandela.
Figured we might be.....
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
Not far off what I was guessing you'd get, which is something that I should have posted before you came back with your results. I thought you'd be slightly more libertarian, but the economic doesn't surprise me a bit. You're maybe even a smidge *gasp!* to the left of my guess.
And if landing next to Gerhard Schroeder freaked you out, consider yourself lucky they took Bill Clinton off the chart. Could've been fatal...
As far as the results, the questions are worded in such a way that partisan doubletalk doesn't really break help you answer the question the way you think you might. I was startled to find myself a good deal more socially libertarian than I thought I was. For the record, I fall somewhere around -5.50 or -6.00 on both axes.
Hannity and Rush are just useful idiots, but Savage is a terrifyingly evil man. I've listened to bits of his show, and read plenty of excerpts, and there is something seriously, seriously wrong with that guy.
When did Chip start referring to himself in the third person???? How Seinfeldian!!!!
I was thinking Bob Dole myself.
Mr. Win/Win here, again. Let me find out what immigration reform issues are most important to American citizens.
Illegal Immigrants:
1. Should not suffer
2. Should not undercut wages for American jobs
3. Are necessary to the health of American business
4. Are difficult for American workers to compete against because they are willing to work for less than minimum wage with no benefits
5. Sap our tax dollars by recieving government benefits.
6. Just shouldn't be allowed in, on principle
7. Would be welcome, if they paid taxes
8. Should be deported
9. Should be killed
10. Are OK, they're just trying to support their families
11. Are draining money from the American economy, when then send money home
12. Should be stopped at the boarder by the border patrol
Click the quote button and delete what you disagree with. Then add your ideas below the quote. I'll consider all ideas and make a proclaimation for the world, at my leisure.
Group them on our side of the border, arm and train them for invasion and revolution in Mexico. Fix the problem where the problem lies.
Chip sayeth: “Fix the problem where the problem lies.”
The problem is not on the border. It is in Washington, DC where the “will of the people” is being ignored. Any fixin to be done should be done when next we close the curtain and pull the lever.
You guys have some real constructive ideas, there
Chip, it's so nice when we agree. I had a similar idea here, though it's not as charmingly draconian.
Ok, you guys are not going to be helpful, so here’s my plan. (Trumpets blare) The King Of The World, His Pompousness Spexvet I, proclaims:
****Details to be worked out later****
Initial understandings:
My plan:
- The country must decide how many legal immigrants we can support, and how many to legalize annually.
- US citizens understand that those who live outside the US have good reasons to want to live in the US.
- We don’t want people dying as they attempt to enter the US.
- American businesses are more profitable when they pay illegal immigrants low wages and provide no benefits, but this leads to a lower standard of living and/or higher unemployment for Americans.
- Illegal immigrants sap our tax dollars by receiving government benefits, when they are not citizens and not paying into the tax pool and insurance pool.
It’s a simple plan. What do you think?
- Immediately strengthen all borders.
- Illegal immigrants must choose if they want to try to become US citizens. Those who don’t, have ninety days to leave the country, if found after that, they will be deported. Those who want to try to become a citizen must "register" within ninety days, and be evaluated for citizenship. Some may not be invited to become citizens.
- Those who register will pay taxes and enjoy many of the privileges of citizenship.
- Businesses that pay their workers "under the table", below minimum wage, or without taxation will be severely penalized.
- Ongoing, new immigrant candidates will be evaluated on a case by case basis, up to the agreed-upon number.
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