Civil discussion about abortion

[Spexvet]

- develop disciplined habits in the recipients

-Seems to me if people had diciplined habits, they wouldn't have to be recipients!!

That's why the habits have to be developed! Because they probably were never taught the habits.

- give taxpayers a return on their investment

-A return on thier investment? Isn't "investment" an active choice? You would force us to invest for what kind of return? The creation of more children that the general public can support with more programs?

You're already "investing" - what's you're ROI now? If you were to get clean streets, for example, for your tax "investment", isn't that an improvement.

- provide an incentive to get into the private workforce

-An incentive to get into the private workplace? I personally know of a very nice woman who after having her 5th child with no husband (or boyfriend) quit because she made more money staying at home!

Exactly! What kind of system do we have, if folks are better off being non-productive than being productive? One that needs fixing, that's what kind of system. Workfare will mean that a child is dropped off before breakfast, and picked up after dinner (since the parents are working) - they will get three square meals that won't cost the parents a penny. Payments to parents will not have to be increased with additional children. I recommend providing products and services for recipients, rather than monetary payments. And don't forget, abstenance conditioning, contraception, abortions, and chilcare are all free.

[Karenrp1956]

THAT'S THE PROBLEM!!!!! I have a hard time feeding my own child, I do not need to feed someone elses. If you make the decision to have sex, get pregnant, then you make the decision to take care of your own responsibilties!!!!! Abortion is not the way out, we have to go back to being a county that takes care of our mistakes when we do them. Start being responsible for what you do. i work 40 hrs +. I pay my way, I do not want to pay for anyone else.


Do you take Medicaid? Don't you get sick of replacing pair after pair for the children of people that will not work? Don't you get tried of wondering why that young man is not working, instead he is sleeping till noon, watching tv till 2am and I AM PAYING FOR HIS GLASSES and all the other things I CANNOT AFFORD

There are ways NOT to get pregnant. These people know it, they just don't want to have anything to interfre with their fun.

Abortion is wrong! Adopt if you do not want this small human being!
Medicaid is only for those who are in dire need for a step up not a way of living.(QUOTE=Spexvet]That's why the habits have to be developed! Because they probably were never taught the habits.



You're already "investing" - what's you're ROI now? If you were to get clean streets, for example, for your tax "investment", isn't that an improvement.



Exactly! What kind of system do we have, if folks are better off being non-productive than being productive? One that needs fixing, that's what kind of system. Workfare will mean that a child is dropped off before breakfast, and picked up after dinner (since the parents are working) - they will get three square meals that won't cost the parents a penny. Payments to parents will not have to be increased with additional children. I recommend providing products and services for recipients, rather than monetary payments. And don't forget, abstenance conditioning, contraception, abortions, and chilcare are all free.[/QUOTE]

[Spexvet]

THAT'S THE PROBLEM!!!!! I have a hard time feeding my own child, I do not need to feed someone elses. If you make the decision to have sex, get pregnant, then you make the decision to take care of your own responsibilties!!!!! Abortion is not the way out, we have to go back to being a county that takes care of our mistakes when we do them. Start being responsible for what you do. i work 40 hrs +. I pay my way, I do not want to pay for anyone else.

Do you take Medicaid? Don't you get sick of replacing pair after pair for the children of people that will not work? Don't you get tried of wondering why that young man is not working, instead he is sleeping till noon, watching tv till 2am and I AM PAYING FOR HIS GLASSES and all the other things I CANNOT AFFORD

First, you shouldn't characterize all those who are on Medicaid that way. Remember the post by the Optiboarder who had a full-time job and still couldn't afford healthcare insurance?

Second, about not wanting to pay for anyone else. THAT'S the attitude that increases abortions! "Let's see, should I see this pregnancy through and struggle to keep afloat financially for the next 18 to 20 years? Or should I just have an abortion? Hmmmmm...."

Third, your forcing people to have a baby, then not helping financially, would be like my forcing you to go to medical school, then not helping financially.

BTW, you ARE paying for others to eat, already, and if you need that help, it's available to you. My plan is intended to reduce dependance on government programs, and to get you a return on your invested tax dollars. Did you pick the issues you agree with, from my list?

[Karenrp1956]

I know there are some that need the help, that is why we have the assistance. But be cause we have to replace all the glasses a child breaks we are not able to help the adults that need help.

If you get pregnant, you do not have to keep the baby.

I have not seen anywhere, and please excuse me if I am wrong, where you will admit that the woman and man have to have some responsiblity when it comes to birth control. This is the main starting point.

Do you think it is right for a woman to continue to get pregnant without her having to accept her part in this. There are ways not to get pregnant. MANY ways! they just have to be used.

Speaking from experience, it does not matter how well you think you know someone, when he tells you that he cannot produce children it is okay to */** without protection, run do not walk to the nearest exit!

[Spexvet]

...
If you get pregnant, you do not have to keep the baby.

My plan makes the adoption process easier.

I have not seen anywhere, and please excuse me if I am wrong, where you will admit that the woman and man have to have some responsiblity when it comes to birth control. This is the main starting point.

I admit that the woman and man have to have some responsiblity when it comes to birth control.

Do you think it is right for a woman to continue to get pregnant without her having to accept her part in this.

No, it's not right. I just oppose your desire to take away a woman's right to choose. That's not right, either.

There are ways not to get pregnant. MANY ways! they just have to be used.

My plan is to promote those things that will reduce abortions, without removing a woman's right to choose. Did I miss an option? I didn't think it was appropriate to include the kind of sex that doesn't make you pregnant, but I can ammend my plan, if you want me to.

[Bjort&Company]

If the woman has to have mandatory sterilization then I hope that goes for the man who got her pregnant also!!! He is in the same boat as her. What do you think?

[Bjort&Company]

I concider abortion to be murdering your own child.

However if abortion is to be allowed it should be with a manditory complimentary sterilization.

Chip

If the woman has to have mandatory complimentary sterilization then I hope that means the man who got her pregnant has to have it also. What's fair is fair don't you agree?

I think that no one is really pro-abortion..I think that the Pro-Lifers & Pro-Choicers need to get together (if that is possible) and try to figure out what would be the best situation. They are so busy fighting each other from across the street that they would get more accomplished if they could work together. Help to educate girls so they don't get into that situation in the first place. Make birth control available to them and teach them about safe sex. You wouldn't believe how many young women have no clue about how to keep themselves safe. It is a shame.

[Karenrp1956]

takes two to play, two to pay

[Spexvet]

If the woman has to have mandatory complimentary sterilization then I hope that means the man who got her pregnant has to have it also. What's fair is fair don't you agree?

I think that no one is really pro-abortion..I think that the Pro-Lifers & Pro-Choicers need to get together (if that is possible) and try to figure out what would be the best situation. They are so busy fighting each other from across the street that they would get more accomplished if they could work together. Help to educate girls so they don't get into that situation in the first place. Make birth control available to them and teach them about safe sex. You wouldn't believe how many young women have no clue about how to keep themselves safe. It is a shame.

How do you feel about my all-encompassing super-duper plan?

[Bjort&Company]

What is your super duper plan? I missed it.

[Spexvet]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spexvet
Currently, the abortion debate has no middle ground. Could it be possible to have a "system" where the Pro-choice and Pro-life factions are both satisfied?

If elected King of the World, this is how I would propose resolving the abortion issue.

1. Provide free condoms for anyone who wants them. These can be provided by anti-abortion Non-Governmental Organizations.
2. Allow first and second term abortions, virtually unrestricted. Folks need to make a decision in a timely fashion.
3. Make pregnancy care free to everyone, including prenatal healthcare, medication and vitamins, and food and board, where necessary. Anti-abortion Non-Governmental Organizations can cover this expense.
4. Reduce red tape for adoptions, except parent qualifications.
5. Subsidize the cost of raising a child, by A-A NGOs.
6. Educate teenagers about sex. Pro-choice Non-Governmental Organizations can cover this expense.
7. Eliminate negative connotations about premarital pregnancy.
8. Expose teens to the concept that abstinence is desirable.

I’d try an approach than would aim to prevent unwanted pregnancies, reduce the penalty for carrying a fetus to full term, ease the financial burden of raising a child, and encourage someone other than the parent(s) to raise a child that was carried full term instead of being aborted.

Would this strategy satisfy both sides?

Please provide constructive criticism of this plan, any ideas will be appreciated- please don't bother posting "it just won't work". The King of the World election is coming up soon, and I need to get my platform finalized!


So it shall be written, so it shall be done!

[Darris Chambless]

I'm bored, I haven't been around in ages and I'm in a mood of sorts.

Civil eh? Okay, and it will be constructive as well.

Spexvet wrote:Currently, the abortion debate has no middle ground. Could it be possible to have a "system" where the Pro-choice and Pro-life factions are both satisfied?

One is in opposition to the other so the answer would be, No.

Spexvet wrote:Provide free condoms for anyone who wants them. These can be provided by anti-abortion Non-Governmental Organizations.

That would take the burden off of the government funded pro-choice groups (i.e. the tax payers) that currently handle this process.

Spexvet wrote:
Allow first and second term abortions, virtually unrestricted. Folks need to make a decision in a timely fashion.

What is your definition of a "timely fashion" and does it include the time prior to the sex act leading to pregnancy?

Spexvet wrote:
Make pregnancy care free to everyone, including prenatal healthcare, medication and vitamins, and food and board, where necessary. Anti-abortion Non-Governmental Organizations can cover this expense.

Are you sure this is your plan? The reason I ask is because it is already being done and it's called Medicaid. You might have some problems with plagerism here. Now the saving grace is of course having non-government funded groups paying for it which would be great because they would have to be more fiscally responsible with their money which could in turn be a deterent for unwanted pregnancy so I like this one very much.

Spexvet wrote:
Reduce red tape for adoptions, except parent qualifications.

Could you take us through the step-by-step process of how the adoption process works currently? Thank you.

Spexvet wrote:
Subsidize the cost of raising a child, by A-A NGOs.

Again, are you sure this is your plan? The reason I ask is because it is already being done and it's called Medicaid. You might have some problems with plagerism here. Now the saving grace is of course having non-government funded groups paying for it which would be great because they would have to be more fiscally responsible with their money which could in turn be a deterent for unwanted pregnancy. Less free money to have and raise those kids and I would be willing to be that personal responsibility would kick in full throttle. I like this one very much.

Spexvet wrote:
Educate teenagers about sex. Pro-choice Non-Governmental Organizations can cover this expense.

What part don't they know about? I would rephrase that to read "Educate teenagers about the negative ramifications of unwanted pregnancy and their personal responsibilities to that child that they themselves will have to bare (and with the A-A NGO handling the money this will be reality)

Spexvet wrote:
Eliminate negative connotations about premarital pregnancy.

Heck no! Read above.

Spexvet wrote:
Expose teens to the concept that abstinence is desirable.

It works 100% of the time it's tried. Yup, I like it. Write that last one up and I'll sign it. Only one problem...The powers that be will laugh us off the face of the planet because "Hormones are a powerful drug. They're going to have sex anyway. We tried and it didn't work." I have heard all three and while I agree there is some truth to it when all personal responsibility has been remove whatever you try will fall on deaf ears. BUT, I agree with it and mean it when I say write it up and I'll sign it. I as a parent will do my part in making sure my daughters stick to this concept, how about the rest of you? Keep in mind I'm talking about you the parent and not delegating this task to the schools or organizations. It is our duty not the governments as Spexvet would have us believe.

Spexvet wrote:I’d try an approach than would aim to prevent unwanted pregnancies,...

By doing the following???

Spexvet wrote: reduce the penalty for carrying a fetus to full term,...

How would that be possible by doing the above???

Spexvet wrote:ease the financial burden of raising a child,...

For the mother and or father while turning said burden over to who exactly???

Spexvet wrote:and encourage someone other than the parent(s) to raise a child that was carried full term instead of being aborted.

And you will change the mothers emotional attachment to the child she carries by doing...???

Anyway, it is great to see you folks even if it is just for a moment.

Take care,

Darris C.

[Karenrp1956]

P.S. The non-government, anit-abortion groups are the churchs. We will not hand out condoms. We will teach morals and the world does not want that

[Spexvet]

Civil eh? Okay, and it will be constructive as well.

Please do. That would mean making positive suggestions, not just nay-saying.

Quote:
Spexvet wrote:Currently, the abortion debate has no middle ground. Could it be possible to have a "system" where the Pro-choice and Pro-life factions are both satisfied?

One is in opposition to the other so the answer would be, No.

That’s OK. Abortion is protected by our constitutional rights – you lose.

Quote:
Spexvet wrote:Provide free condoms for anyone who wants them. These can be provided by anti-abortion Non-Governmental Organizations.

That would take the burden off of the government funded pro-choice groups (i.e. the tax payers) that currently handle this process.

And….?

Quote:
Spexvet wrote:
Allow first and second term abortions, virtually unrestricted. Folks need to make a decision in a timely fashion.

What is your definition of a "timely fashion" and does it include the time prior to the sex act leading to pregnancy?

"Timely Fashion" for an abortion would be by the end of the second trimester, as I stated (RIF). To my knowledge, a woman doesn’t need an abortion before she is pregnant, Darris.

Quote:
Spexvet wrote:
Make pregnancy care free to everyone, including prenatal healthcare, medication and vitamins, and food and board, where necessary. Anti-abortion Non-Governmental Organizations can cover this expense.

Are you sure this is your plan? The reason I ask is because it is already being done and it's called Medicaid. You might have some problems with plagerism here. Now the saving grace is of course having non-government funded groups paying for it which would be great because they would have to be more fiscally responsible with their money which could in turn be a deterent for unwanted pregnancy so I like this one very much.

If you read and understood my post, I stated that Non-Governmental Organizations would cover this. Last I checked, Medicaid is a government program.
I have to take issue with your assertion that "would have to be more fiscally responsible with their money". Is that the same fiscal responsibility that Enron, etc. executives had?

Quote:
Spexvet wrote:
Reduce red tape for adoptions, except parent qualifications.

Could you take us through the step-by-step process of how the adoption process works currently? Thank you.

No.

Quote:
Spexvet wrote:
Subsidize the cost of raising a child, by A-A NGOs.

Again, are you sure this is your plan? The reason I ask is because it is already being done and it's called Medicaid. You might have some problems with plagerism here. Now the saving grace is of course having non-government funded groups paying for it which would be great because they would have to be more fiscally responsible with their money which could in turn be a deterent for unwanted pregnancy. Less free money to have and raise those kids and I would be willing to be that personal responsibility would kick in full throttle. I like this one very much.

If you read and understood my post, I stated that Non-Governmental Organizations would cover this. Last I checked, Medicaid is a government program.

I have to take issue with your assertion that "would have to be more fiscally responsible with their money". Is that the same fiscal responsibility that Enron, etc. executives had?

BTW, less "free money" would increase abortions because it would be the less expensive alternative.

Quote:
Spexvet wrote:
Educate teenagers about sex. Pro-choice Non-Governmental Organizations can cover this expense.

What part don't they know about? I would rephrase that to read "Educate teenagers about the negative ramifications of unwanted pregnancy and their personal responsibilities to that child that they themselves will have to bare

Or bear…

(and with the A-A NGO handling the money this will be reality)

No, some kids have sex before anyone tells them that intercourse can make them pregnant.

Quote:
Spexvet wrote:
Eliminate negative connotations about premarital pregnancy.

Heck no! Read above.

I’ll bet you were a virgin when you got married, weren’t you?

Quote:
Spexvet wrote:
Expose teens to the concept that abstinence is desirable.

It works 100% of the time it's tried. Yup, I like it. Write that last one up and I'll sign it. Only one problem...The powers that be will laugh us off the face of the planet because "Hormones are a powerful drug. They're going to have sex anyway. We tried and it didn't work." I have heard all three and while I agree there is some truth to it when all personal responsibility has been remove whatever you try will fall on deaf ears. BUT, I agree with it and mean it when I say write it up and I'll sign it. I as a parent will do my part in making sure my daughters stick to this concept, how about the rest of you? Keep in mind I'm talking about you the parent and not delegating this task to the schools or organizations. It is our duty not the governments as Spexvet would have us believe.

No, I believe someone has to do it. I just don’t believe that enough parents are doing it, or that they’re not doing it well enough. Did your parents explain sex to you, Darris? Were you a virgin when you got married?

Quote:
Spexvet wrote:I’d try an approach than would aim to prevent unwanted pregnancies,...

By doing the following???
[QUOTE] Quote:

Spexvet wrote: reduce the penalty for carrying a fetus to full term,...

How would that be possible by doing the above??? [/QUOTE]
A pregnant woman is faced with a decision: have an abortion, or carry full term. It is my position that she will be more likely to choose to carry full term if the barriers to carrying full term are removed or reduced. She will be less likely to become pregnant, in the first place, if the barriers to contraception are removed. Obviously bullying by the anti-choice folks and making abortions illegal are tactics that don't reduce the number of abortions performed. I think that my plan will.

Quote:

Spexvet wrote:ease the financial burden of raising a child,...

For the mother and or father while turning said burden over to who exactly???

A loving, adoptive family. Or NGO subsidy. Remove the barrier and reduce abortions.

Quote:

Spexvet wrote:and encourage someone other than the parent(s) to raise a child that was carried full term instead of being aborted.

And you will change the mothers emotional attachment to the child she carries by doing...???

A woman who is making the decision whether to have an abortion probably does not have much of an emotional attachment to begin with.

[Darris Chambless]

Would you be so kind as to find and reference for me where in the Constitution the right to an abortion is located?

Spexvet wrote:
And….?

I forgot to explain this in a manner you would understand. Let me rephrase it like this "That would be a good thing." Does that work better?

Spexvet wrote:
To my knowledge, a woman doesn’t need an abortion before she is pregnant, Darris.

Exactly!

Spexvet wrote:
If you read and understood my post, I stated that Non-Governmental Organizations would cover this. Last I checked, Medicaid is a government program.
I have to take issue with your assertion that "would have to be more fiscally responsible with their money". Is that the same fiscal responsibility that Enron, etc. executives had?

Nothing gets past you does it? Except comprehension from time to time. My statement was with regard to your claim that this is "your plan" but it is already in play and is called Medicaid. So you have taken someone elses plan and called it your own = plagerism.

Enron had abortion clinics or they were planning on purchasing some? I was unaware of either being on the table. Again you misunderstand, the saving grace for these types of programs would be to turn it over to non-governmental organizations which is what I said in my post. Since the money for these organizations would be limited more fiscal responsibility would have to be in place or they would go broke. The government doesn't worry about that because they can just increase taxes. The downside is that government will never turn these programs over to the private sector for the very reason that it would be more effective to do so, which would show the failings of government and they can have none of that.

Spexvet wrote:
No.

Why not?

Spexvet wrote:
BTW, less "free money" would increase abortions because it would be the less expensive alternative.

I would disagree. I believe it would increase the number of children put up for adoption and cause people to take on more personal responsibility. If no one is going to foot the bill for them and they will be responsible for the process from start to finish I believe those consequences alone will cause people to realize what's at stake. As it stands now there are few stakes because prenatal care is paid for, doctors fees are paid for, delivery is paid for, formula, diapers, etc. are paid for. It is truly amazing what is available to people for their irresponsibility. It is as if the country is telling people "Go ahead. We'll take care of it for you."

Spexvet wrote:
No, I believe someone has to do it.

someone just not yourself??? Or am I reading this wrong?

Spexvet wrote:
Did your parents explain sex to you, Darris?

Yup. I have based my responses on the morals and values my parents taught me and it is what I instill in my children as well. It is my responsibility as a parent to take care of my children, teach them well and keep them safe.

Spexvet wrote:
She will be less likely to become pregnant, in the first place, if the barriers to contraception are removed.

What barriers to contraception? Did I miss something? The only barrier I'm aware of is potential embarassment while buying contraceptives but I wouldn't classify that as a barrier but rather a lack of persoanl responsibility and stupidity on the part of male or female.

Spexvet wrote:
A loving, adoptive family. Or NGO subsidy. Remove the barrier and reduce abortions.

But that doesn't lift the financial burden it merely relocates it.

Spexvet wrote:
A woman who is making the decision whether to have an abortion probably does not have much of an emotional attachment to begin with.

How many have you been around??? You might want to check into that before you make that judgement.

Take care and be well.

Darris C.

[karen]

DARRIS!!!!!!!!!!! Miss you over here honey, nice to "see" you!!!!!!!

[Spexvet]

Would you be so kind as to find and reference for me where in the Constitution the right to an abortion is located?

Take care and be well.

Darris C.

Right between where it says that you have control over what a woman does with her body, and where it says a woman has no right to end a pregnancy.

[Darris Chambless]

Right between where it says that you have control over what a woman does with her body, and where it says a woman has no right to end a pregnancy.

So then, let me get this straight just so that I'm clear, you're now saying there is no constitutional right to an abortion? I thought you said women had a constitutional right to an abortion?

Spexvet wrote:
That’s OK. Abortion is protected by our constitutional rights – you lose.

By your definition then "Right between where it says that you have control over what a woman does with her body, and where it says a woman has no right to end a pregnancy." would be just as constitutional. That's two to one in favor of legally preventing abortion by your own words then. So where are we now?

I am curious to know, now that you have a plan laid out, if you have any information relating to how you would plan to implement each one? I too could come up with a plan without any basis for implementation and could come up with said plans all day long, but if I have no way to define how I would go about implementing them they are little more than words on paper. Granted they would sound good but what would I have to do or change to make it work? That's what I'm asking of you. That is why I asked about how the adoption process works presently. What would you change or fix to make it easier? Those are simple questions to a simple plan. Keep in mind I'm not saying it wouldn't work but rather asking how. All I've said to the negative is that your plan would not bring pro-abortion and anti-abortion folks together in agreement.

Take care,

Darris C.

[chip anderson]

Spex:

You still don't get it. We don't give a damn about the woman's body. She can destroy or preserve it as she chooses. It's the baby's life and body and spirit that we care about.
Chip

[Spexvet]

So then, let me get this straight just so that I'm clear, you're now saying there is no constitutional right to an abortion? I thought you said women had a constitutional right to an abortion?



By your definition then "Right between where it says that you have control over what a woman does with her body, and where it says a woman has no right to end a pregnancy." would be just as constitutional. That's two to one in favor of legally preventing abortion by your own words then. So where are we now?

I am curious to know, now that you have a plan laid out, if you have any information relating to how you would plan to implement each one? I too could come up with a plan without any basis for implementation and could come up with said plans all day long, but if I have no way to define how I would go about implementing them they are little more than words on paper. Granted they would sound good but what would I have to do or change to make it work? That's what I'm asking of you. That is why I asked about how the adoption process works presently. What would you change or fix to make it easier? Those are simple questions to a simple plan. Keep in mind I'm not saying it wouldn't work but rather asking how. All I've said to the negative is that your plan would not bring pro-abortion and anti-abortion folks together in agreement.

Take care,

Darris C.

You can stop with the boring, off-topic rhetoric.

Do you think my plan will increase, decrease, or have no effect on the number of abortions performed? Then you may defend your position, if you are able. Please start making sense. If you think something has been left out, or shouldn't be included, you may suggest it. As for the details, as King of the World, I have minions like you who are well-suited to do menial tasks like that.

[Spexvet]

Spex:

You still don't get it. We don't give a damn about the woman's body. She can destroy or preserve it as she chooses. It's the baby's life and body and spirit that we care about.
Chip

Do you think my plan will increase, decrease, or have no effect on the number of abortions performed? Then you may defend your position, if you are able.

[Darris Chambless]

Do you think my plan will increase, decrease, or have no effect on the number of abortions performed? Then you may defend your position, if you are able.

That is extremely hard to answer because your plan has no plan. How will each piece be implimented?

Maybe this will help:

My plan to resolve the abortion issue:

1. Provide no free condoms for anyone who wants them. People should take personal responsibility for their actions and be held accountable to those actions.
2. Teach abstinence.
3. Get rid of Medicaid for repeat offenders and stiffen up the criteria for access to this program.
4. Do not subsidize the cost of raising a child in order to increase adoptions of new borns to productive members of society who want to raise a child.
5. Make parents educate teenagers about sex and inform their children of the consequences of having a child.
6. Re-enforce negative connotations about premarital pregnancy.
7. Expose teens to the concept that they alone will have to take on the responsibilities of raising their children emotionally and financially.

Now notice I have nothing in my plan that says how I'm going to accomplish or implement any of this but it is a plan. Do you think it will work? My plan, just like your plan is nothing more than a list of outcomes so what do we do to get there? If there is no implimentation prior to, how can anyone say it will work or not? It's like starting a movie with "...And they lived happily ever after. The End." roll credits and movie over. Then being asked what I thought of the movie? "I have no idea what I thought of the movie because I didn't actually see one. But the ending looked good."

Anyway take care,

Darris C.

[Jubilee]

Provide free condoms for anyone who wants them. These can be provided by anti-abortion Non-Governmental Organizations.

They are already readily available. Many Planned Parenthood clinics, and other teen/young adult type centers have these sitting out in bowls for you to grab! Don't even need to ask a clerk. The only thing that is different in this scenario is who pays for it.

Allow first and second term abortions, virtually unrestricted. Folks need to make a decision in a timely fashion.

How is this any different than now? If someone wants one, they can get one. Some states might make you wait and extra day to think about it, and teens might have to have parental consent. It seems (of course I am writing this on a break at work and haven't time to get actual stats, but I will look for them later) that even when some states were less restrictive, the number of abortions went up. Makes sense to me since if I were looking for services, I wouldn't have to wait. Make my appointment, go in with child.. come out with out.

How do you forsee having easier access to the procedure is going to limit it? Are you applying the same arguement for legalizing drugs here? Make it easy to get a hold of and it is easier to control?

Make pregnancy care free to everyone, including prenatal healthcare, medication and vitamins, and food and board, where necessary. Anti-abortion Non-Governmental Organizations can cover this expense.

Many agencies already aid in the costs associated with pregnancy and birth. The government has Medicaid to cover pregnancy related costs only, many pro-life agencies have subsidized health care to offer, along with group homes, church maintained apartments/homes, or families willing to take in those who truly have no place to stay.

Heck even Planned Parenthood gives prenatal care for free to those who truly can not afford it. (and I don't mean by performing abortions either)

Reduce red tape for adoptions, except parent qualifications.

Currently the adoption process in this nation does have some flaws. Yet, other countries as well have certain qualifications prospective parents need to meet. Not only are there the costs associated with it, but certain minimum income, length of marriage, home studies, background checks, physicals, etc need to be done.

As it stands, there is no shortage of prospective parents for children under the age of 2. The reason why so many people adopt children from abroad is due to the LACK of kids in this age range. The kids living in the group homes are ones that are traditionally school age, and from dysfunctional homes. IE parents still alive, but no deemed to be fit parents by the state...

When I was checking into adopting a child, I was told that the best option for me was to become a foster parent, and they have subsidies, and cash options available for adopting some of the older or special needs children.

Subsidize the cost of raising a child, by A-A NGOs.

As mentioned previously, medicaid covers many of the health care costs. Yes this is government, not AANGOs, but do you think it really matters the receipents who is paying for it?

There is WIC who will cover food staples and formula for the household. Here there is a traveling nurse service that will do free immunizations and wellness checks. Churches and community centers have diaper drives. Food banks, free lunch programs, free books, reduce fee schedules, free - reduced fee daycare, clothing drives, etc.

Don't you think that the parents oughta be responsible for SOMETHING? Help is there when you need it, and if you look for it. However I don't think we will be doing these kids or the country for that matter any favors by making it completely responsibilty free for them, or remove all the hardships associated with an unplanned pregnancy.

Educate teenagers about sex. Pro-choice Non-Governmental Organizations can cover this expense.

Teens know more about sex than you think. My 14yr old neice was talking about two of the girls from her high school class play up the "in vogue lesbian love" thing to rile up the boys. She told me how stupid one of her classmates was for getting pregnant when there are so many options out there to prevent it. My 12 yr old nephew talked about a kid in his class carrying condoms in his wallet!

My experience was in 4th grade us girls were educated about the woman's body. It was a mom and daughter event that encluded a movie, discussion, and refreshments. Got a lovely brochure about they cycle, etc.

5th grade was sex ed, one session with boys and girls seperated, and one together. Talked about "changing bodies", hormones, hygiene, and brith control.

6th grade health, covered the reproductive system and how pregnancy occurs.

10th grade, same as 6th but more detail. Included how the different forms of BC work, samples, and had to memorize all the signs/symptoms of various STDs.

College had many different programs, free condom give aways, pro-life and pro choice demonstations, and lists of clinics where you could receive subsidized care.

While many of these costs were covered by government agencies.. ie taxpayers, I still think that this is plenty enough coverage for teens to be able to figure it out.

Eliminate negative connotations about premarital pregnancy.

Many of those connotations are gone. I don't see parents sending the girls away in shame. There are teen girls who PURPOSELY get pregnant because they are looking for that unconditional love that is upposed to exist between a mother and child. They think the boy will have to stay with them now.. That they will fill this hole in their life and all will be well. Till they do get pregnant and face the true reality of it.

The rest are the "infalliable" it can't happen to me! They _know_ the risks, but they think it won't happen to them. I can play with out protection this one time.. Yeah, Suzy got pregnant, but she was a slut. I am not that way. Or I only have sex once in a while.. so I am not at risk.

Same as with the problem of drugs. I went to the funeral of teen last week who died of an overdose. The kid was well-liked popular, active in sports, went to church, and from a respected family in the community. The phrase I heard uttered the most was, "I never thought it could happen to him! Someone I know. Someone who was one of us!" coming from the throngs of teens there to pay their respects. I overheard a group of kids smoking in the back parking lot, talking about their parties, and adventures.. and how this death changes everything. It was the hope that this kids life will serve as a warning to the rest of the kids that gave them the courage to face the group.

I’d try an approach than would aim to prevent unwanted pregnancies, reduce the penalty for carrying a fetus to full term, ease the financial burden of raising a child, and encourage someone other than the parent(s) to raise a child that was carried full term instead of being aborted.

Would this strategy satisfy both sides?

As has been mentioned before, all of these provisions are already in place. It has not worked, and I don't think shuffling the burden of who pays will make it any better. The problem is we have too many birth parents who aren't being _real_ parents. If the person isn't having to clothe, feed, and care for their children, what are they doing? I would like to think they are focusing on the emotional/social/academic development of the child, but unfortunately that isn't the case. I personally like seeing the stories of where the mom, and sometimes dad, do what it takes to make the situation work and to raise strong kids.

While I do agree that help should be available for those who need it, and I myself have used the system, I don't think it should remove all the character development a struggle can produce. Make sure they can make it, but have them work for it. IE.. don't remove all the negative connotations associated with an unplanned pregnancy. Heck, even if they could get their abortion in an hour, that doesn't remove the emotional and physical impact their decision has on the person and their future...

Cassandra

[Spexvet]

...How do you forsee having easier access to the procedure is going to limit it? Are you applying the same arguement for legalizing drugs here? Make it easy to get a hold of and it is easier to control?
...Cassandra

Drugs are illegal, abortion is not.

I believe that it is important that a woman's right to choose be continued.

[Darris Chambless]

Spexvet wrote:I believe that it is important that a woman's right to choose be continued.

Does that also include men? If so does this "right to choose" include making the right choice prior to getting pregnant? Does it include personal responsibility on the part of men and women (you didn't include anything directly relating to the men in your plan)? Does it include the rights of the unborn child? You are referring to a constitutional right to an abortion (which doesn't exist) and a womans right to choose an abortion but then ignoring everything else that goes along with it. If a man and a woman know that the consequences of their actions will fall squarely on thier shoulders I believe the decisions prior to their actions will be thought through a little better as well as the decisions following actions that are carried out. Shifting the financial burden from one group to another and not to those directly envolved can't work except from the standpoint I mentioned before regarding private funding to pro-life groups and the limits thereof.

A woman and mans right/responsibility to make the right choices. I like it.

Darris C.