Scratch coating scam??

**tracey0808** · 02-16-2006, 08:12 AM

I recently purchased new eyeglasses w/ AR coating and scratch resistence. Within days I had fine scratches no them. After several months they are horribly scratched. I am not claiming to be the best at eyeglass care but after wearing glasses most of my life, I've never had lens scratch so easily.

The lens have a 1 year warranty so I will have them replaced BUT here is my problem- I don't think the lens ever had scratch resistence coating to begin with. Is there any way to tell?? A friend's wife who works at a local eyeglass lab told me it's not uncommon to say lens have the coating when they don't because it is cheaper for the lab to replace the lens under the warrenty than to truly apply the scratch coating. Is this true?? HELP!! I want my coating! Any suggestions? I'd like a pair of glasses that will last several years after the 1 year warranty ends.

**For-Life** · 02-16-2006, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by tracey0808

I recently purchased new eyeglasses w/ AR coating and scratch resistence. Within days I had fine scratches no them. After several months they are horribly scratched. I am not claiming to be the best at eyeglass care but after wearing glasses most of my life, I've never had lens scratch so easily.

The lens have a 1 year warranty so I will have them replaced BUT here is my problem- I don't think the lens ever had scratch resistence coating to begin with. Is there any way to tell?? A friend's wife who works at a local eyeglass lab told me it's not uncommon to say lens have the coating when they don't because it is cheaper for the lab to replace the lens under the warrenty than to truly apply the scratch coating. Is this true?? HELP!! I want my coating! Any suggestions? I'd like a pair of glasses that will last several years after the 1 year warranty ends.

They probably do no have the coating. If they have AR then they are scratch resistant. The real problem is probably the coating is crazing from the lenses and it appears that it is scratched.

**Happylady** · 02-16-2006, 09:08 AM

What is the lens material? Have you had AR before? It proabably does have scratch coat, but the quality of AR lenses vary a lot. You proabably got a lower end AR lens and they do scratch more easily. Better AR lenses like Crizal, Zeiss, and High Vision are much more scratch resistant.

To keep your lenses from scratching always rinse them under running water when you clean them, use AR cleaner or mild soap. Never use Windex. Dry them with an AR cloth(which should be washed every week), orginal Bounty paper towel, or clean cotton cloth.

Rinsing is very important and a step that many people skip.

**GOS_Queen** · 02-16-2006, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Happylady

To keep your lenses from scratching always rinse them under running water when you clean them, use AR cleaner or mild soap. Never use Windex. Dry them with an AR cloth(which should be washed every week), orginal Bounty paper towel, or clean cotton cloth.

Rinsing is very important and a step that many people skip.

B I N G O :idea:

I have found many people think it is okay to breathe on the lenses to fog them up ... or they use an eyewear cleaner but don't rinse the lenses first.

Rinse the lenses FIRST, even if you use an eyewear cleaner. You need to get the dust/grit OFF the lens surface before you apply the cleaner.

**GOS_Queen** · 02-16-2006, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by tracey0808

I recently purchased new eyeglasses w/ AR coating and scratch resistence. Within days I had fine scratches no them. After several months they are horribly scratched. I am not claiming to be the best at eyeglass care but after wearing glasses most of my life, I've never had lens scratch so easily.

The lens have a 1 year warranty so I will have them replaced BUT here is my problem- I don't think the lens ever had scratch resistence coating to begin with. Is there any way to tell?? A friend's wife who works at a local eyeglass lab told me it's not uncommon to say lens have the coating when they don't because it is cheaper for the lab to replace the lens under the warrenty than to truly apply the scratch coating. Is this true?? HELP!! I want my coating! Any suggestions? I'd like a pair of glasses that will last several years after the 1 year warranty ends.

I know of know way to tell if the lenses have a scratch coating.

re: the friend's wife who works at the lab ... In my opinion, if that is TRULY happening, that is a shame, a disgrace and they should be exposed for the frauds that they are. If I knew of a lab that was supplying products that were not as ordered, I would notify EVERY SINGLE OPTICAL and tell them about the fraud ... (uh, yes, I DO have that much time on my hands ... I have a very strong ethical bent towards honesty & integrity :angry: )

The average life expectancy of a pair of eyeglasses is about 2 years.

**Judy Canty** · 02-16-2006, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by tracey0808

I recently purchased new eyeglasses w/ AR coating and scratch resistence. Within days I had fine scratches no them. After several months they are horribly scratched. I am not claiming to be the best at eyeglass care but after wearing glasses most of my life, I've never had lens scratch so easily.

The lens have a 1 year warranty so I will have them replaced BUT here is my problem- I don't think the lens ever had scratch resistence coating to begin with. Is there any way to tell?? A friend's wife who works at a local eyeglass lab told me it's not uncommon to say lens have the coating when they don't because it is cheaper for the lab to replace the lens under the warrenty than to truly apply the scratch coating. Is this true?? HELP!! I want my coating! Any suggestions? I'd like a pair of glasses that will last several years after the 1 year warranty ends.

Tracey,
Why did you choose the eyewear provider that you did? I'm sure you had a good reason, so instead of asking us to advise you, why not just go back and talk to them?

**Jim G** · 02-16-2006, 10:08 AM

I see two issues here. One, you refer to "scratch resistance." The reality is that most folks infer "scratch proof" which is not the case. A scratch resistant coating applied UNDER an AR coating improves both the adhesion and the scratch resistance of the AR coating but the top coat is still an extremely thin layer of AR. A scratch resistant layer CANNOT be applied over an AR coating.

Secondly, what you describe as scratches could very well be "crazing," minute cracks in the coating that can be wrongly labeled scratches.

Judy and others advice to return the lenses to where you purchased them is correct. Do try to ascertain if the problem is scratching or crazing; they are often confused.

**Chris Ryser** · 02-16-2006, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Jim G

Secondly, what you describe as scratches could very well be "crazing," minute cracks in the coating that can be wrongly labeled scratches.

It's kind of nice to see Jim G back on the optiboard after a long absence. I also fully agree with his post.

Crazing of hard coats can happen when the glasses are exposed to extreme heat, like leaving them on a car dashboard, or also extreme cold.

Also there is nothing on lenses that will NOT scratch....even a hard coat with the exception of the lens on a Swiss Rado watch and I still wonder how nobody in the optical has ever been able to duplicate that coating.

http://www.rado.com/100/109/734.asp

**chip anderson** · 02-16-2006, 10:38 AM

Reguardless of what the cause, you had a warranty and the optical shop is standing behind it. What is your complaint? Any lens made of anything can be scratched and a lot of coatings which the retail outlet has little control over can fail. As long as this is being replaced and without charge to you, you are being made whole so what is your problem?

**shellrob** · 02-16-2006, 10:44 AM

The problem here is that you were never properly informed on exactly on what you were getting or how to care for what you did get. At least they are covering them under your warranty which is good, but just know that if you do not take care of them as instructed in all of the above posts, the same will happen again and again.

**Jim G** · 02-16-2006, 12:55 PM

Chris, remember Diamonex?

Probably would have worked if they could just have kept lenses from flexing.

**shellrob** · 02-16-2006, 01:03 PM

Jim, that's funny you brought that up, I actually had a patient that came in to the office today telling me he had those lenses and wanted to make sure he got them again. Ironic.

**chip anderson** · 02-16-2006, 02:40 PM

Remember when RayBan had the "diamond hard surface", I actually had a customer come in, take a pair off my shelf and rub them vigorously with her diamond ring. Of course it scratched and she complained.

**shellrob** · 02-16-2006, 03:25 PM

hee hee

**SpecialT** · 02-16-2006, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by chip anderson

Remember when RayBan had the "diamond hard surface", I actually had a customer come in, take a pair off my shelf and rub them vigorously with her diamond ring. Of course it scratched and she complained.

MY GOD! With customers like that I can understand where some of that cynicism of yours comes from.

**JerryR** · 02-16-2006, 07:49 PM

The Ray Ban "diamond hard surface" was applied by Diamonex. Diamonex was the most scratch resistant lens ever made. Certainly the early versions crazed rather easily, but subsequent generations were really quite good. One of the reasons the Rado process is so good is, it is very small in comparison to a lens and is not subject to flexing like lenses are.

**fjpod** · 02-16-2006, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by chip anderson

Reguardless of what the cause, you had a warranty and the optical shop is standing behind it. What is your complaint? Any lens made of anything can be scratched and a lot of coatings which the retail outlet has little control over can fail. As long as this is being replaced and without charge to you, you are being made whole so what is your problem?

I agree with Chip (Lord have mercy). Scratch resistance is really not a matter of a good coating. Everything scratches. It is a matter of warranty. It should have been sold to you that way, but what the heck, if you can get a new pair of lenses at no charge, what's the beef?

**For-Life** · 02-16-2006, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by fjpod

I agree with Chip (Lord have mercy). Scratch resistance is really not a matter of a good coating. Everything scratches. It is a matter of warranty. It should have been sold to you that way, but what the heck, if you can get a new pair of lenses at no charge, what's the beef?

It is a matter of warranty and it isn't. If a client has to repeatedly come back that is a problem.

**tracey0808** · 02-16-2006, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by Happylady

What is the lens material? Have you had AR before? It proabably does have scratch coat, but the quality of AR lenses vary a lot. You proabably got a lower end AR lens and they do scratch more easily. Better AR lenses like Crizal, Zeiss, and High Vision are much more scratch resistant.

To keep your lenses from scratching always rinse them under running water when you clean them, use AR cleaner or mild soap. Never use Windex. Dry them with an AR cloth(which should be washed every week), orginal Bounty paper towel, or clean cotton cloth.

Rinsing is very important and a step that many people skip.

I don't know anything specific about lens material other than they are poly lenses. I've had AR before... actually can't recall the last pair of glasses I had that didn't have it, but I've never experienced this level of scratching before.

I do the running water thing every morning but must admit that it is hit or miss at work. Thing is that I'm not doing anything different with these lenses than any I've had in the past and this pair looks like a toddler cared for them. Thanks for the input, though.

**tracey0808** · 02-17-2006, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by GOS_Queen

I know of know way to tell if the lenses have a scratch coating.

re: the friend's wife who works at the lab ... In my opinion, if that is TRULY happening, that is a shame, a disgrace and they should be exposed for the frauds that they are. If I knew of a lab that was supplying products that were not as ordered, I would notify EVERY SINGLE OPTICAL and tell them about the fraud ... (uh, yes, I DO have that much time on my hands ... I have a very strong ethical bent towards honesty & integrity :angry: )

The average life expectancy of a pair of eyeglasses is about 2 years.

I'm confident that the information my friend's wife gave me is accurate, at least for the example she gave me. Since no one has commented that they know of labs that do this same crummy thing, it might just be an isolated problem... who knows.

As for your 'teaser' about knowing how to check a lens for a coating, I'd sure be appreciative if you'd share that tidbit of knowledge. If I could actually prove they didn't coat the lens I'd definitely pursue the lab and gladly 'out' them if I felt it was anything but an isolated, honest error.

**tracey0808** · 02-17-2006, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by Judy Canty

Tracey,
Why did you choose the eyewear provider that you did? I'm sure you had a good reason, so instead of asking us to advise you, why not just go back and talk to them?

Actually, choose my provider b/c of close location to my work, they accepted my crummy state insurance, and if I'm honest... I liked the look of their building/store front.

I have gone back and they will replace the lenses. My worry is that if the lab to which they send my Rx is deceitful about their 'coatings', then I will continue to have this same problem even after my one year warranty has ended.

**tracey0808** · 02-17-2006, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by Jim G

I see two issues here. One, you refer to "scratch resistance." The reality is that most folks infer "scratch proof" which is not the case. A scratch resistant coating applied UNDER an AR coating improves both the adhesion and the scratch resistance of the AR coating but the top coat is still an extremely thin layer of AR. A scratch resistant layer CANNOT be applied over an AR coating.

Secondly, what you describe as scratches could very well be "crazing," minute cracks in the coating that can be wrongly labeled scratches.

Judy and others advice to return the lenses to where you purchased them is correct. Do try to ascertain if the problem is scratching or crazing; they are often confused.

I'll definitely find out if this issue could be crazing. I realize there is no 'scratch proof' coating or lens, but since scratching of this extent has never happened to me before, and I've worn glasses most of my life, I'm certain something is up. Of course the 'something' could simply be crappy quality AR lens, that apparently I've been lucky enough to have avoided until now.

Thanks for the input.

**tracey0808** · 02-17-2006, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by chip anderson

Reguardless of what the cause, you had a warranty and the optical shop is standing behind it. What is your complaint? Any lens made of anything can be scratched and a lot of coatings which the retail outlet has little control over can fail. As long as this is being replaced and without charge to you, you are being made whole so what is your problem?

My complaints? (*which only apply if I do find out it is a scam.)
1. Don't lie to me and take my money for something you are not providing.
2. If the lab to which my doctor sends my Rx is deceitful about their 'coatings', then I will continue to have this same problem even after my one year warranty has ended. At which time I'm simply up a creek.
3. I've got a million more important things to do than mess with getting my lens replaced every two months.

**tracey0808** · 02-17-2006, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by shellrob

The problem here is that you were never properly informed on exactly on what you were getting or how to care for what you did get. At least they are covering them under your warranty which is good, but just know that if you do not take care of them as instructed in all of the above posts, the same will happen again and again.

Since no one has commented on knowledge of this type of scam, I'm hoping that the lab my doc uses is legit and I won't have a similiar problem with my replacement lenses.

**tracey0808** · 02-17-2006, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by fjpod

I agree with Chip (Lord have mercy). Scratch resistance is really not a matter of a good coating. Everything scratches. It is a matter of warranty. It should have been sold to you that way, but what the heck, if you can get a new pair of lenses at no charge, what's the beef?

See my reply to Chip, #23 post I believe, for my "beef".