Life after death: Ghosts

**Darryl Meister** · 02-14-2006, 02:53 AM

Well, I had a few minutes to kill, so I thought I'd leave the Ophthalmic Optics forum and take my semi-annual visit to the Just Conversation forum. With all this talk of religions, many of which being leveraged by the basic human desire to sustain eternal consciousness through "life after death," I thought I'd pose the old party favorite, "Do you believe in ghosts?"

As a kid, I was fascinated by the so-called "mysteries" of the world, like Bigfoot and The Bermuda Triangle and anything else that appeared on In Search Of. But as I grew up, and realized that most of these mysteries were simply fabrications, I lost that sense of "wonder" with the world. The "magic was gone," as they say.

So... Do you believe in ghosts? If so, do you think they are spirits or some form of as-yet-undiscovered energy? Have you ever seen a ghost? Do you have a good story from a crazy aunt who claimed to have seen one? Etcetera.

**drk** · 02-14-2006, 08:49 AM

A foray into the supernatural, eh?

I have never had first had experience with a ghost, thank goodness. I know people who have had supernatural experiences.

My little old Italian grandmother married my grandfather after his first wife died, and my grandmother inheirited her two children. She told a story of waking up in the middle of the night with a lady at the foot of her bed, who told her "I know you are a good woman. Take care of my children." Dreaming? Maybe.

Dated a girl in college who swore up and down that she was playing with a Ouija board with friends. In the middle of the night, they awoke to see the moving piece moving on it's own, and they threw the whole thing out the dorm window? Drunk? Maybe.

**fjpod** · 02-14-2006, 09:37 AM

Don't believe in ghosts. I think it's all in the mind...perception. Maybe studying visual perception has hardened me. lol

**chm2023** · 02-14-2006, 10:29 AM

Don't believe in ghosts. Think 99% of all ghostly stuff has a natural explanation. Don't rule out some sort of undiscovered energy, a la poltergeists.

**Darryl Meister** · 02-14-2006, 12:24 PM

So, is a person's opinion on this matter likely to depend upon whether he/she falls into either the Atheist or Christianity camp?

**Jacqui** · 02-14-2006, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Darryl Meister

So, is a person's opinion on this matter likely to depend upon whether he/she falls into either the Atheist or Christianity camp?

It may. I'm Pagan

**Jacqui** · 02-14-2006, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Darryl Meister

So... Do you believe in ghosts? If so, do you think they are spirits or some form of as-yet-undiscovered energy? Have you ever seen a ghost? Do you have a good story from a crazy aunt who claimed to have seen one? Etcetera.

We had one in our old lab. Rather benign, didn't do anything except show up once in a while.

**Darryl Meister** · 02-14-2006, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Jacqui

It may.

But why should it? Although life after death is certainly a central tenet in religions like Christianity, the Bible certainly doesn't say anything about souls being trapped on Earth.

**Jacqui** · 02-14-2006, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Darryl Meister

But why should it? Although life after death is certainly a central tenet in religions like Christianity, the Bible certainly doesn't say anything about souls being trapped on Earth.

I don't know, But then I really don't understand Christianity. I'm Pagan and ghosts are in our beleifs, either trapped or lost souls, or those that return for whatever reason.

**chm2023** · 02-14-2006, 12:46 PM

Catholicism teaches there are no ghosts, for what it's worth.

My lack of belief isn't religion based; just stands to reason that if there were ghosts, there would be some sort of irrefutable proof by now.

BOOO!!!!:cheers:

**drk** · 02-14-2006, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Darryl Meister

So, is a person's opinion on this matter likely to depend upon whether he/she falls into either the Atheist or Christianity camp?

I think, more specifically, it has to do with whether they are a materialist or not. Materialists would tend to discount supernatural/paranormal (CHM, fjpod), but non-materialists wouldn't.

I think there is good room for the "paranormal" in Christianity. The Bible discounts the ability of human souls to come back to the physical universe (at least without God's specific allowance). Nonetheless, there are non-human spiritual beings that have Biblically been documented to interact with this material universe. And I think that that's what ghosts would be.

I can recommend a hair-raising book to those who want to read some fascinating stuff: Dave Hunt's Occult Invasion. I can't recommend this strongly enough.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/156...lance&n=283155

**Jim Schafer** · 02-14-2006, 01:34 PM

I don't think this qualifies with being earthbound but I had a weird experience at the the time of death of a person who was close to me.

I first met Mrs. Robinson when I was about 5 years old, the year before I started kindergarten. She was my best friend's mom. Their property bordered my backyard. Their yard had a ball field laid out so we played there a lot. Whenever I would leave to go home she would always say "you better be good and mind your mother Jimmy Schafer" and give me one of those swats across the rear as I ran away from her. She always swatted me like that, through little league, CYO football, the whole time growing up.

I did not see her much after grade school. Her son and I ran around with different groups..(he ran with the smart kids but I never held that against him:) ). Around 1973 my future wife invited me to a 4th of July family picnic, I met her extended relatives...and guess who her aunt was...you guessed it Mary Robinson.

So from Jan 1974 on she was officially family. My oldest son was born on her birthday, she always said he was her best birthday gift ever. Everytime we met or parted she always hugged me and gave me a swat telling me "be good Jimmy Schafer"

In July 2002 we were in Ohio for a wedding when Mary went into the hospital. She was about 80 years old and was dying of congestive heart failure and cancer. We went to the hospital knowing we would never see her again. We had a great afternoon and I told her she was by far my favorite relative. As my wife and I said goodby to her she swatted me as usual, I knew that was the last time and it really got to me. Aunt Mary had us laughing through the tears.

About 2 weeks later I am mowing my yard in Florida, smack in the middle of the open side lot, with no trees or shrubs within 50 feet of me, when out of the blue something hit me on the hip and right cheek hard enough to alter my walking pace. I spun around looking for what hit me or see who was in the yard playing tricks. I figured since it was about 95° and 100% humidity, I must have stumbled from the heat. I finished the lawn, cleaned up my stuff and went in the house. My wife was on the phone and looked sad...when she saw me she paused and told me "Aunt Mary died about 15 minutes ago" That timeline matched my event in the yard.

Ghosts are one thing but I have a strong belief from that evening, her spirit, soul, energy whatever, gave me a final swat on her way into eternity.

That's my story and I am sticking to it...

**coda** · 02-14-2006, 02:43 PM

That's a great story Jim.

I'm an agnostic trending towards atheism and I put great stock in what can be observed (directly or indirectly) in the physical world. I suppose when you consider that basis that it's not surprising that I believe that most supernatural observations are either chicanery or self induced delusion. It's also not surprising that I allow for the possibility of things we don't yet understand and are unable to measure (ghosts and string theory for example).

All that said, I'm still waiting to see my first spectral apparition. So all you ghosties out there, hurry the heck up and come visit!

**shanbaum** · 02-14-2006, 03:08 PM

Sorry, Jim, that was me.

**Jim Schafer** · 02-14-2006, 03:14 PM

Sorry, Jim, that was me.

Hey Robert...
that was my initial reaction...a Shanbaum drive by hit and run:cheers:

**Darryl Meister** · 02-14-2006, 04:39 PM

Jim's story, which I found very fascinating, may point to a "supernatural" phenomenon distinct from ghosts and spirits. Over the years, there have been many stories of people having similar psychical experiences at the moment of the death of a loved one. Perhaps it is possible to develop certain "connections" with others...

**rinselberg** · 02-14-2006, 06:50 PM

I think that Jim may be describing a "false memory". My theory: It never happened. But somewhere along the line, after the time that Jim says this happened, a memory of this developed. Perhaps it has something to do with the emotional connection that Jim had.

I don't think it is all that different than the recall (after waking) of a dream.

OptiBoard. Come for the optics, stay for the convo ...

**OPTIDONN** · 02-14-2006, 07:54 PM

Hmmm...my religious beliefs are rather 'old testament' you know the Torah;)
I'm not even too sure what the Jewish take on ghosts is. I know that there are plenty of old stories involving spirits but as far as hauntings and what not I wonder. I wish that ghosts were real! I would love to go ghost hunting! I don't scare easy and would probably want to see what it would take to irritate a ghost so much that it would snap! You know for the sake of science.:D

**fjpod** · 02-14-2006, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by chm2023

Catholicism teaches there are no ghosts, for what it's worth.

My lack of belief isn't religion based; just stands to reason that if there were ghosts, there would be some sort of irrefutable proof by now.

BOOO!!!!:cheers:

What about the Holy Ghost...err...umm...Spirit?

**Darryl Meister** · 02-14-2006, 09:56 PM

The Holy Spirit isn't an earth-bound "ghost" in the traditional sense of the word, hanging around old houses and rattling chains, but is more like a ubiquitous angel.

**Spexvet** · 02-15-2006, 10:24 AM

What about the angel that told the shepherds of the birth of Christ?

**Darryl Meister** · 02-15-2006, 11:06 AM

Angels aren't the ghosts of humans though.

**chm2023** · 02-15-2006, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by fjpod

What about the Holy Ghost...err...umm...Spirit?

Not a ghost, don't know how that nomenclature came into being.

**John Sheridan** · 02-15-2006, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by rinselberg

I don't think it is all that different than the recall (after waking) of a dream.

This sentence reminded me of an experience that I once had with what they call a "waking dream". I woke one morning hearing the sound of loud banging in my room. I looked around for the sound, and saw that the window was open and the windowshade was flapping against the window, making the banging. I sumultaneously thought two things: "I thought I closed that window", and "How in the world can a flapping windowshade make such a loud banging?".

I reached for the covers, because I was going to get up to close the window. Just then, the banging stopped. I looked at the window, and of course it was closed just as I left it.

Here's the point: a so-called "waking dream" is distinguished from an ordinary dream by the degree of seeming reality associated with it. After you wake from an ordinary dream, you know that -that- was a dream and -this- is reality. But there was no such boundary in my dream. The banging and the flapping windowshade seemed as real to me as the chair I am sitting in right now as I write this.

I really wish there had been a video camera on me that morning. It would have been really interesting to know what my first physical movement actually was. Did I open my eyes and look at the window first, then reach for the covers as I remember it? Or was looking at the window just part of the dream, and the first movement was actually when I reached for the covers? I don't know, and will never know.

Being a lifelong skeptic, I believe that "ghost stories" can be explained by waking dreams, false memories, and other such things. I'm not saying that there is no such thing as life after death, I'm just saying I don't believe in ghosts, which is a different thing...