Sophisticated Consumers

[rbaker]

I have been retired from the optical business for quite a few years now. However, I do enjoy checking out OptiBoard while having my morning prune juice. Its nice to see what’s going on in the field.

I have noticed a remarkably sophistication in some of the posts to this site by some consumers. Jeesh, some of them know the brand names of product and seem to be able to engage in remarkably astute debate with the august panel of experts here on OptiBoard.

Is this the result of very effective marketing directly to the consumer? Or, are eye care providers spending more time “educating” the consumer at the point of sale? Or is there another reason?

[For-Life]

I have been retired from the optical business for quite a few years now. However, I do enjoy checking out OptiBoard while having my morning prune juice. Its nice to see what’s going on in the field.

I have noticed a remarkably sophistication in some of the posts to this site by some consumers. Jeesh, some of them know the brand names of product and seem to be able to engage in remarkably astute debate with the august panel of experts here on OptiBoard.

Is this the result of very effective marketing directly to the consumer? Or, are eye care providers spending more time “educating” the consumer at the point of sale? Or is there another reason?

I think it is many factors.

- Customer Loyalty must be earned consistantly: This means that before you go see someone and you see that person until the rest of your life. Now stores have to earn that trust. Therefore, stores have to educate their clients more to keep them. Additionally, customers will educate themselves more to build trust.

- More products: before there was less frames, lenses, coating and essentially options. Dissonance has a lot to do with it.

- Pull advertising: Before companies would use push advertising where they would educate the store and the store would educate the clients. Now pull advertising is done where some companies are adververtising to clients directly and pulling them into the stores.

[chip anderson]

I am not at all sure all these "consumers" are consumers. I notice a few of them are starting to give "professional advise" to other posters and consumers.

Chip

[rbaker]

Chip,

Bingo !

[John Sheridan]

Chip: Maybe that's true for some of them, but I don't think it holds for all. Part of it is due to what some people call the "Information Age", or more specifically, the availability of information throught the Internet. There are always going to be people that are interested in a given subject, and the Internet gives them them the opporunity to do research from their own living room. I have learned a lot from lurking here for the past 8 or 9 months. When I get my next pair of glasses later this year, I intend to ask my optician if they can give me Ipseo lenses. Unless I learn about something better between now and then...

[Happylady]

I agree, I think it is the internet. It allows interested people to research anything.

[High_Abbe]

[QUOTE=John Sheridan] When I get my next pair of glasses later this year, I intend to ask my optician if they can give me Ipseo lenses.

Good luck finding an optician who sells them, and if you do you should start saving the money to buy them now!!!

[AWTECH]

Chip said and Dick agreed:

I am not at all sure all these "consumers" are consumers.

I think some are really knowledgable consumers primarily due to the internet.

Unfortunately most of the discussion about PAL designs is marketing hype by both consumers and opticians. Not that the opticians are not knowledgable in their field, but the equipment available to most of them to really understand a lens designs and objectively compare them is limited to non technical patient results and comments. My point here is many consumers have the same tools as the opticians to judge the actual quality of a progressive addition lens design. How they see through the lens!

[Chris Ryser]

Or is there another reason?

I believe there is. I have caught a few of them changing names and identity, to post and go on asking the same questions over and over again.

Of course there are some legitimate ones that are asking for help and advise and they merit to be answered properly.

However the ones that open new threads like up to over 10 just in a few days, asking questions to which, you can feel, that they already know the answers. They usually mention certain brand name progressive lenses and are leading the answers in a wanted direction.

Specially over the last 6 month this has increased at a very fast rate and I am wondering every day if we are not being taken for a fun ride and having our legs pulled.

Here is a copy of an e-mail I received a few weeks ago, probably by mistake:

"Hey there Cinders831--was that threat from Sandy-she is warning you!!!!
Wanna have a little fun playing around with her?
Help me find a website for the most expensive rimless frame that there is. I'll post a new thread about what an awesome frame it is, and we'll come up with a name for a "new" progressive that no one has heard of, and I'll post about how amazing the lenses are...we'll have her out there in stores asking for a new lens that no one has ever heard of?
Sound like fun to you guys? Cindy"

Maybe it would be a good idea if the Optiboard had an extra section for non professionals or consumers to ask their questions.

[fjpod]

The title of the board does say, "for eyecare professionals".. Even if we had consumers register as consumers, and not have access to the professional side of the board, there would be pranksters and hucksters who would beat the system.

Often well meaning professionals, who are usually new to the board, try to answer the questions in earnest. The best policy is to not answer at all.

[SpecialT]

The title of the board does say, "for eyecare professionals".. Even if we had consumers register as consumers, and not have access to the professional side of the board, there would be pranksters and hucksters who would beat the system.

Often well meaning professionals, who are usually new to the board, try to answer the questions in earnest. The best policy is to not answer at all.

I think you are right! At the same time, consumers posts turn out fairly interesting much of the time. I like to see what responses are provoked when they have time to think about it. The responses are alot different than when they are in your chair. To me, it is a study of the world outside of the professional part of eyecare. I just wish the posts could be limited so that they don't get overly repetitive. It may be too late for that though!

[John Sheridan]

Even if we had consumers register as consumers, and not have access to the professional side of the board, there would be pranksters and hucksters who would beat the system.

As I said in another post, you people need to come up with a strict set of rules about posting here, and moderators need to enforce those rules.

As far as I can tell without actually meeting him, Steve Machol, the owner of Optiboard, appears to be the prototypical "nice guy" who wants to be helpful to everyone, and give everyone a chance. However the Internet has been likened to the lawless "Wild West" of old. You can imagine that nice guys tended to finsh last back in the old wild west.

The fact is, trolls exist and are becoming more widespread as has been noted. When they have their usernames locked, they will open another one, and will continue doing this for a while. Eventually though they will leave a forum where they are "hounded" by the moderators.

So, where do they go? They seek out forums that are less moderated and where it's easier to post unabated. If Optiboard becomes that forum, you can expect that it will go the way of the Dodo when real professionals get frustrated and leave. As I've said before, I've seen it happen time and time again.

I know, people want to be "nice", they want to give everyone "freedom of speech". But the Internet is just not a place where that can be done. Moderators, start locking threads when they get out of hand. Start warning users when it appears that they are disrupting the forum, and ban them if they do not heed the warnings. If that means that some legitimate consumer doesn't get a question answered, well, then so be it. The alternative is for Optiboard to become a ghost town, then no consumers will get their questions answered.

[GOS_Queen]

I believe there is. I have caught a few of them changing names and identity, to post and go on asking the same questions over and over again.


Here is a copy of an e-mail I received a few weeks ago, probably by mistake:

"Hey there Cinders831--was that threat from Sandy-she is warning you!!!!
Wanna have a little fun playing around with her?
Help me find a website for the most expensive rimless frame that there is. I'll post a new thread about what an awesome frame it is, and we'll come up with a name for a "new" progressive that no one has heard of, and I'll post about how amazing the lenses are...we'll have her out there in stores asking for a new lens that no one has ever heard of?
Sound like fun to you guys? Cindy"

This disturbs me.

[QDO1]

Some consumers make the board interesting and have thier own flavour. I for one appreciate Rinselberg's dry whit and research into subjects. the angle he brings is often enlightening

[fjpod]

Some consumers make the board interesting and have thier own flavour. I for one appreciate Rinselberg's dry whit and research into subjects. the angle he brings is often enlightening

Agreed, but he seems to be the exception of late. He brings more information to the board than he takes away.

Some of the rest of the stuff.... .25 diopter changes, which material for +1.00 - .75 at 180, ... I think is being put there by schills trying to see how much banter they can create among professionals by asking questions about minutia.

In a few cases perhaps, a consumer may have some legitimate question, but all too often they are trying to boil down a very complex issue so as to make an "informed" decision about their refractive state or eye health. It's just not a matter of the numbers.

[Lady Nicole]

Is this the result of very effective marketing directly to the consumer? Or, are eye care providers spending more time “educating” the consumer at the point of sale? Or is there another reason?

My only comment is, if eye care providers were spending so much time "educating" their patients, they wouldn't have much need to come here and have us explain everything to them.

[GoodAsGold]

I tend to agree with John. I'm one of those consumers who likes to be educated and have some knowledge when I go into an optical shop. This board is a tremendous help for that....most of the time!

Chip: Maybe that's true for some of them, but I don't think it holds for all. Part of it is due to what some people call the "Information Age", or more specifically, the availability of information throught the Internet. There are always going to be people that are interested in a given subject, and the Internet gives them them the opporunity to do research from their own living room. I have learned a lot from lurking here for the past 8 or 9 months. When I get my next pair of glasses later this year, I intend to ask my optician if they can give me Ipseo lenses. Unless I learn about something better between now and then...

[GoodAsGold]

Good point, Lady Nicole. I know that ShyIris was feeling that way about the optical professionals she has seen in person, hence the need to come here with questions.

My only comment is, if eye care providers were spending so much time "educating" their patients, they wouldn't have much need to come here and have us explain everything to them.

[rbaker]

John Sheridan said:

“As I said in another post, you people need to come up with a strict set of rules about posting here, and moderators need to enforce those rules.”

Gosh, John, it’s a freaking miracle that we have been operating what is arguably the biggest and the best eye care message board on the web for all these years. Cripes, thanks for bringing this to our attention and warning us.

It is like the “Wild West” around here. We got our fair share of desperados, fools, padres, good old boys, hucksters, schoolmarms and hard workin cowpokes. And riding herd over this collection of reprobates we have a few sheriffs who occasionally do have to throw someone in the pokey (thankfully there has been no need as yet for a necktie party) and , in general, maintain some semblance of order and good taste. About the worst infraction around these here parts is when someone brings a knife to a gun fight.

You might want to mosey around for a little longer than a week before you belly up to the bar and try to tell the bartender how to run the joint.

[aaron]

...you could probably put them into 3.

1) Bogus inquiries with agenda.
2) People with more time than sense.
3) Genuine questions that a patient/consumer would like answered by a non-partisan 3rd party. The "2nd opinion".

As much as I love OB it is hard for me to believe that there are all these people with so much time to burn so that they sit on a specialized site for the professionals from one industry out of hundreds.
Call me a pesimist.

Aaron

[cinders831]

I believe there is. I have caught a few of them changing names and identity, to post and go on asking the same questions over and over again.

Of course there are some legitimate ones that are asking for help and advise and they merit to be answered properly.

However the ones that open new threads like up to over 10 just in a few days, asking questions to which, you can feel, that they already know the answers. They usually mention certain brand name progressive lenses and are leading the answers in a wanted direction.

Specially over the last 6 month this has increased at a very fast rate and I am wondering every day if we are not being taken for a fun ride and having our legs pulled.

Here is a copy of an e-mail I received a few weeks ago, probably by mistake:

"Hey there Cinders831--was that threat from Sandy-she is warning you!!!!
Wanna have a little fun playing around with her?
Help me find a website for the most expensive rimless frame that there is. I'll post a new thread about what an awesome frame it is, and we'll come up with a name for a "new" progressive that no one has heard of, and I'll post about how amazing the lenses are...we'll have her out there in stores asking for a new lens that no one has ever heard of?
Sound like fun to you guys? Cindy"

Maybe it would be a good idea if the Optiboard had an extra section for non professionals or consumers to ask their questions.

So Chris I recieved the same email, it was an invitation to "play with" Sandy. It came from Roxysmom, a consumer I believe. I actually assumed that perhaps Roxysmom was Sandy and I didnt feel like playing games, while I come to Optiboard for many reasons I frequesnt mostly for the ability to talk shop. I actually recieved two pms inviting me to get at Sandy. Needless to say I just ignored them but I thought it pretty crazy that someone would do that......little bored in there life I suppose.

[shellrob]

That's crazy. Roxysmom should be ashamed of herself.....

[John Sheridan]

You might want to mosey around for a little longer than a week before you belly up to the bar and try to tell the bartender how to run the joint.

rbaker, I have been "mosey-ing around" this place for close to a year now. I have been a lurker all that time but just registered only recently. You may be a few years older than me, but I have been participating on Usenet and other online forums such as this one for over 20 years. No that's not a typo - the Internet existed long before 1995 but it only started becoming popular with the masses starting at that time.

What I am saying is based upon what I have seen before, and the trend I have been seeing in this place particularly in the last 6 months. You can laugh at me if you like - I'm not an eyecare professional and I really don't give a rats patookus whether this place thrives or gets ruined by trolls. If you think you have it all figured out, that's OK, just ignore me and do what you like...

[rbaker]

John,

Don’t be so sensitive. And, as I mentioned, don’t bring a knife to a gunfight. I wrote my first code for the eyecare business in IBM 360 assembler on punch cards in the sixties. I also worked on one of the first VAX implementations of some medical applications in FORTRAN ported from the PDP-11 in the mid 70’s up in your neck of the woods for Ken Olson in Maynard, MA.

I am now retired and have spend most of my time day trading, clipping bond coupons and rolling CD’s so I do enjoy the diversion of climbing into my PC and revisiting some of my old haunts. And, in keeping with my New Years resolution to try to become more sarcastic I occasionally contribute something, hopefully of a somewhat insulting, politically incorrect and humorous nature. I don’t laugh at you or anyone else on this board. I just want to assure you that OptiBoard is in good hand and not to worry. Be of good spirit. Please hang around and contribute in your field of expertise. Just, always sit with your back to the wall.

[drk]

I think Sheridan has a good point, here, for those who are listening.