Do we really need so many?

[fjpod]

Do we really need so many progressives? I'm all for advancement of technology, customizing what's available to the patients needs and such, and I do think some positives will emerge from things like free-form and rear surface PAL, but the plethora of "me too" lenses just drives me crazy.

Wouldn't the public be better served ( and our own psyches) if we all concentrated on a few good designs and FIT THEM WELL, instead of listening to all the marketing hype and fitting every new thing that comes along as if it's going to solve all the problems of the world?

I'd swear that when you switch a patient's progressive due to non -adapt it's really a crap shoot as to whether you solved their problem because of a different design or you got the measurements better, or whether the patient eventually gains a better understanding of progressives as you go through the fitting and re-fitting process.

I guess you could argue that the same exists in cars, houses and contact lenses.:hammer:

[hcjilson]

Lens designs evolve through competition. If we said we've already got enough progressives on the market,what would be the incentive to improve?

[For-Life]

Well lets look at Essilor:
- Super No Line
- Adapter
- Natural
- Comfort
- Ovation
- Ellipse
- Panamic
- Physio
- Physio 360
- Ipseo

Now lets look at Sola Zeiss American Optical Corporation of America
- VIP
- VIP XL
- Visuality
- Percepta
- Sola Max
- Sola One
- Zeiss Gradal Top
- AO Compact
- AO Easy
- AO Outlook
- AO Pro

Even Signet Armolite
- PE
- PEII
- Navigator
- Kodak Precise
- Kodak Concise

I think that says it all.

[Chris Ryser]

Do we really need so many progressives? ...............................

Wouldn't the public be better served ( and our own psyches) if we all concentrated on a few good designs and FIT THEM WELL, ............................:hammer:

For-life, You just hit the nail again......................however not in your head as per above picture.

The lens manufacturers all want to cash in on the progressive hype, some of the larger ones have created with mass advertising and getting the opticians hot with easy sells because the public is asking for them.

The do sell for a much higher price on all levels than regular bifocals, while they do not cost anymore to produce.

Just figure that in CR 39 lenses are produced in a glass mold producing the front and backside curves. They are pushed into a rubber or plastic ring that gives the space for the lens thickness. Then the monomer is injected and the curing process takes it's turn. When done, the front and backside molds are removed and you have your finished lens or lens blank ready for use or surfacing.

The same applies for a single vision lens as well as for regular type bifocal. The molds are re-usable indefinitely if they dont fall on the floor and break, they are cleaned and they are again ready for the next lens.

Besides that a manufacturer will claim that the molds are much more expensive to produce than an ordinary bifocal blank.

No wonder that everybody comes out with a new variation of shorter corridors, smaller or larger reading areas which are actually so minimal that
probably no ordinary person would see the difference.

In my view you are right..............to concentrate on one or two types and do a super good job fitting them and you tell the patients, who only read the hype and otherwise have no technical know how, that this is the lens you are going to be happy with, because 75% to 80% of successful wearing progressives is due to the optician fitting them.

[fjpod]

For-life, The lens manufacturers all want to cash in on the progressive hype, some of the larger ones have created with mass advertising and getting the opticians hot with easy sells because the public is asking for them.

Many years ago(28), when I first got out of optometry school, I was complaining to a B&L sales rep about the confusing myriad of saline and disinfecting solutions the company was selling at the same time. It was common to keep old versions on the market when new, improved ones came out.

He told me "get used to it", for it was all marketing and competition for shelf space in the store aisle. If one manufacturer had 6 or 8 bottled products, they got more space on the shelves than the competitor who only had 2 or 3.

So, I guess it is no different with progressives or contact lenses or cars...the more you offer, good or bad, the more you are likely to sell. Alas.

[QDO1]

For-life, You just hit the nail again......................however not in your head as per above picture.

The lens manufacturers all want to cash in on the progressive hype, some of the larger ones have created with mass advertising and getting the opticians hot with easy sells because the public is asking for them.

let me see - If you owned a lens making company and were offering progressives what would you like to offer...

long corridor
short corridor
office

individual long corridor
individual short corridor
individual office

the offering from 2 years ago before you discoverered how to do it better so:

old long corridor
old short corridor
old office

And then you want a bargain basement range - which you offer at a very low price

And then your tech guy does something wizz - what do you do?

you are allready offering 12 lenses or so...

Its your right, as a lens manufacturer to offer products to market just like it is for the other ones - thats why we have so many progressives - it is choice. with more education,and less fantasy, opticians will begin to make objective decisions about those choices for patients


I might rightfully say that BPI have an excelelent selection of tints and chemicals, as do a lot of other companies, and you make claims about your products, just like the other manufacturers do about thiers.. thats called business, and Im happy about it

[Chris Ryser]

let me see - If you owned a lens making company and were offering progressives what would you like to offer...

long corridor
short corridor
office

individual long corridor
individual short corridor
individual office

the offering from 2 years ago before you discoverered how to do it better so:

old long corridor
old short corridor
old office

And then you want a bargain basement range - which you offer at a very low price

And then your tech guy does something wizz - what do you do?

you are allready offering 12 lenses or so...

Its your right, as a lens manufacturer to offer products to market just like it is for the other ones - thats why we have so many progressives - it is choice. with more education,and less fantasy, opticians will begin to make objective decisions about those choices for patients


I might rightfully say that BPI have an excelelent selection of tints and chemicals, as do a lot of other companies, and you make claims about your products, just like the other manufacturers do about thiers.. thats called business, and Im happy about it

King I love your post.....................you nearly make as much sense as myself.

Exception is the part of the quote I marked in red.................I do not just make claims.............as there had been No new things neither by BPI or any of the others in 30 years, I ivented some new techniques...............I even went and and got patents in many of the important countries because my competitor stole many of my inventions over the last 25 years, and I got no credit for them.

In my case it is not hype....................I want to be able to keep my pride for the new stuff I invented over the years.

[QDO1]

In my case it is not hype....................I want to be able to keep my pride for the new stuff I invented over the years.

thats what they all say - lol

[Mikef]

?

If a Lens company hypes a lens and cutomers ask for it, DO YOU

Sell them the lens and make more profit!

Talk them into a cheaper lens that fits their needs and make less!

Other!

If you owned a car dealership that sold BMW and Toyota. AND a cutomer came in looking for a 5 series BMW would you tell them that the Camry is better for them?

Do you run a business or a service! ANd if both which comes first.

[Chris Ryser]

thats what they all say - lol

King................go to bed it must be just about 1 am your time..............save your energy for tomoorow as it might be a rough day.

[QDO1]

King................go to bed it must be just about 1 am your time..............save your energy for tomoorow as it might be a rough day.

ahh I Im up moonlighting in my other job.. but enough of that

[optixbil]

The simple answer to that is to sell the patient the best lens for their needs. The simple pricing formula is to decide how much you should or want to make on a pair of progressives, and add that to the wholesale cost of the lenses. You make the same profit on any progressive so there is no incentive to "upsell" and the patient is well served. The old pricing formula of cost multiplied by a percentage does not work in this scenario because cost has absolutely no relation to quality nor best design.

Bill Belanger

?

If a Lens company hypes a lens and cutomers ask for it, DO YOU

Sell them the lens and make more profit!

Talk them into a cheaper lens that fits their needs and make less!

Other!

If you owned a car dealership that sold BMW and Toyota. AND a cutomer came in looking for a 5 series BMW would you tell them that the Camry is better for them?

Do you run a business or a service! ANd if both which comes first.

[rsandr]

The simple answer to that is to sell the patient the best lens for their needs. The simple pricing formula is to decide how much you should or want to make on a pair of progressives, and add that to the wholesale cost of the lenses. You make the same profit on any progressive so there is no incentive to "upsell" and the patient is well served. The old pricing formula of cost multiplied by a percentage does not work in this scenario because cost has absolutely no relation to quality nor best design.

Bill Belanger

We price our lenses by percentage of cost to cover risk of breakage.
If we used a fixed amount we would either end up nervous wrecks dealing with the high end stuff, or overcharging on the budget stuff.

Unfortunately as you say this means that high end lenses automatically offer more profit, I guess it comes down to morals and selling products you prefer to work with.

[Chris Ryser]

We price our lenses by percentage of cost to cover risk of breakage.
If we used a fixed amount we would either end up nervous wrecks

You are both doing the right thing.................because one is in the lab end and the other in the retail end