One or two pairs?

[For-Life]

I see on this forum a lot when a patient comes on with a prescription and is asking about PALs a lot of posters say that you will need a second pair for reading too. Now my question is how do you know? Why not get the patient a good PAL and then see if he or she needs a second pair of reading? I also get a lot of doctors put that on their scripts.

For instance, I had a girl who was complaining about her old glasses she got somewhere else. The AR was peeling, the intermediate and reading was poor. She is teaches a piano, a hobby that begs for a second pair of reading glasses. So I told her what we would do is go for the PALs first and then after she tries them out we would look at doing a second pair of reading. First thing I found is that she has a pd that has some deviation between eyes, so for arguements sake 33/30. The second thing I found is that her OC was different, so again like 17/18. Did it like that and she could not believe how great they were and did not need a second pair for reading.

This is not the first time either. Actually, in most cases they do not need the second pair.

So why are we pushing the second pair up front?

[ziggy]

moneymoneymoneymonnnnnnnnnnney,money! Just kidding my mom was an avid reader and she found if she was setteling in for a multi-hour reading session her readers were far more comfortable. I always suggest getting the PAL's first then copme back if the need is there for speciality specs.

[Aarlan]

moneymoneymoneymonnnnnnnnnnney,money! Just kidding my mom was an avid reader and she found if she was setteling in for a multi-hour reading session her readers were far more comfortable. I always suggest getting the PAL's first then copme back if the need is there for speciality specs.

I agree. Each patient is different and should be approached as such. I have some folks that LOVE their progs, but for work or hobby have a small problem. An additional pair is sometimes the best route to go to alleviate the shortcomings of any pair of lenses.

AA

[GOS_Queen]

I like to find out if they like to spend a lot of time reading in bed or if they have specific hobbies where they would be more comfortable with a reader

[For-Life]

I like to find out if they like to spend a lot of time reading in bed or if they have specific hobbies where they would be more comfortable with a reader

That is okay, but what I am saying is get them in their pals first and then if they feel a second pair would be more comfortable then do it then. So many get the two pair off the beginning and have a pair sit in a drawer.

[GOS_Queen]

I guess my experience is that for most patients, progressives suck when you are lying down, trying to read in bed. When I talk to the patient and if we discuss this, I feel I have educated them whether they want the two pairs of not. They will KNOW that I know and have told them this.

I feel it's better for ME to do the educating vs having them go glasses shopping with a friend in another store and having them find out by the conversation (or by some other means) that there is a solution to that problem ... I really don't like it when people say (when I tell them something that the other optician should have told them) "why didn't THEY tell me that ! " I guess I feel bad for the patient for not having been told in the first place. Even if they don't get the readers the same day, I think they should be "forwarned". FWIW I always ask about their TV watching habits ~ if they like to lie back on the couch or on the recliner, I like to warn them about how a progressive will kind of suck ... they may want to keep the pair of SV glasses as TV glasses ...

[Chris Ryser]

I see on this forum a lot when a patient comes on with a prescription and is asking about PALs a lot of posters say that you will need a second pair for reading too. Now my question is how do you know? Why not get the patient a good PAL and then see if he or she needs a second pair of reading? I also get a lot of doctors put that on their scripts.

I just love you post. I just would object to the red highlited sentence.

Everybody glorifies PALS which are supposed to be the ultimate in everything from distance to near vision.

If the proper lens is fitted the right way after determining that a PAL is the right choice, you should not need a second pair for reading at all.

If another pair of reading glasses is required all the glorifying is all big baloney advertising to make the public spend more money.

[Lady Nicole]

I like to warn them about how a progressive will kind of suck ...

is that the exact phrase you use while talking with your patient???

:drop:

[For-Life]

I just love you post. I just would object to the red highlited sentence.

Everybody glorifies PALS which are supposed to be the ultimate in everything from distance to near vision.

If the proper lens is fitted the right way after determining that a PAL is the right choice, you should not need a second pair for reading at all.

If another pair of reading glasses is required all the glorifying is all big baloney advertising to make the public spend more money.

in most cases you do not need the second pair, but sometimes for artists, or piano players, or reading or watching tv at night people want a dedicated pair.

In most cases they do not.


GOS_Queen, you are right, but you have to watch. We assume that they will want it and in many cases they do not. Like on OB I see a lot of people say that they work in an office area so we declare they need a second pair. What we should do is mention it and even price it out, but hold off on ordering them until you know that they still want them.

[ken@foothills]

There is an individual in one of these posts who works at Lenscrafters and is having problems with the script that they want the staff to use. But in many cases I think we do not ask for that second pair sale, myself included, where we should have a scripted reply to our customers we fail to comply because of habit.
For example when you go to a fast food place they usually ask would you like fries with that, or a drink, etc. In our business do we ever ask would you like a pair of sunglasses, computer glasses, or reading glasses with every customer? And far too many times I think we tend to spend our customers money not more but less of it because either we think they can't afford it or we couldn't afford it. In either case since we are in a medical related field I think we are a conservative group.
And that is possibly why independant doctors customers are increasing but the customers are decreasing in their opticals.

[For-Life]

Well we tell the patient that they should have a second pair for reading. With that patient use those pair?

Sunglasses makes more sense, because most of us need sunglasses. But in many cases the customer leaves the pair in a drawer and is ****** off.

[GOS_Queen]

is that the exact phrase you use while talking with your patient???

:drop:

no

[GOS_Queen]

I guess what I like to do is have what I call a "personal conversation" with the patient about their lifestyle ~ how DO they work? what DO they do for fun (indoors and outdoors)/ how DO you relax after work. I want to be as thorough as possible (without overwhelming them with too much to comprehend) and explain what they MAY want "based on our conversation". If they don't want to purchase that day, I'll tell them that if they experience such & such (whatever the case may be) then to come back and I will help solve that problem:idea:

I personally don't care for sounding like a programmed robot ... there ... I've said it! :hammer:

[Johns]

This analogy IS older than dirt, but of course it never stopped us before:

You only need one pair of glasses like you only need one pair of shoes.

Really! Shoes protect your feet, and in some cases even keep them dry. You really could get by with just one pair of shoes if you had to. Lots of people manage to get by with one pair of glasses.

When it come down to it. The next time your Rx changes, you COULD get by with the same Rx if you had to...it just might not be as sharp, but think of all that money you'll be saving!

[Happylady]

I find my progressives work just fine on the computer, but I have my computer screen low. I just checked and the top of my screen is about level with the my upper lip. So when I look at the screen I am looking through the middle of my progressives.

I find most people have their computer screens straight ahead. This works okay if your add is +1.50 or less since you probably can see arms length through the top of the progressives. It doesn't work with adds +2.00 and above.

I ask people where their screens are and suggest they lower them. Most people tell me they can't. I warn them that they might have problems and tell them I can make them some computer/work glasses.

I often suggest they see if the progressives work and if they need to consider a second pair. I worry that lots of people just don't bother. They would rather have a sore neck then spend $200.00 or less to fix the problem.

[gola]

I wear Pal permanently and also prescribe them if i think the patient would benfite with them. I do not sell the second pair of lenses as if there were a must but do instruct the patient of advantages and disadvantages. Pals can be used form everything but are not specific for anything.
I tell the patient that i have reading glasses to be used when i am going to do a close work that require a large field and when i am going to read in bed.
I also have a pair of lenses for television while in bed. This way i can adopt more confortable positions on the bed. And the most important of all, if sleep with the lenses on and i break them, i stil have the Pals to go to work next day.
In other words, i let them try the Pals but they are informed that there are more specific solutions if they fil they need them.
If you do not instruct the patient in advance, once they discover that there is something they can not do with the Pals and you try to explain that it is normal what happend to them, they will alway see this explanation as an excuse and they may even say. Why didn´t you tell me this in advance? are you hiding something else?

[For-Life]

This analogy IS older than dirt, but of course it never stopped us before:

You only need one pair of glasses like you only need one pair of shoes.

Really! Shoes protect your feet, and in some cases even keep them dry. You really could get by with just one pair of shoes if you had to. Lots of people manage to get by with one pair of glasses.

When it come down to it. The next time your Rx changes, you COULD get by with the same Rx if you had to...it just might not be as sharp, but think of all that money you'll be saving!

Question is

Will they use both?

For many it is too inconvientent.

Why don't we see how they do with the one pair and see if they want the second pair later?

Also, I know the staff at the store only wear PALs and do not want or need a second pair for reading, so I do not think your analogy can be applied to both.

Think about it this way. If we lived on our own we would want a car. Sure, I would like to have a ratty old truck once and a while for major moving jobs and cleaning up, but I would never use it. The car does me well for 99.99 percent of the time.

[ken@foothills]

Let me go back to my anology of would you like fries with that order? Studies show if you ask a 100 people if they want fries about twenty will say yes. Do they need those fries? Probably not! Is that for you to decide? And yes, I understand you will get eighty no's and have to listen to the reasons why.

Now you know people shop for glasses, so are those twenty going to buy glasses somewhere else?

[For-Life]

Let me go back to my anology of would you like fries with that order? Studies show if you ask a 100 people if they want fries about twenty will say yes. Do they need those fries? Probably not! Is that for you to decide? And yes, I understand you will get eighty no's and have to listen to the reasons why.

Now you know people shop for glasses, so are those twenty going to buy glasses somewhere else?

My clients are extremely loyal so they would not shop anywhere. Also, in this case if they do not need them then you are just turning them off when they saw that they wasted XXX amount of dollars.

[ken@foothills]

[QUOTE=For-Life]My clients are extremely loyal so they would not shop anywhere.

Dear Sir; And Iam trying to say this in the nicest way possible and with all due respect, you sir, are naive.

[For-Life]

[QUOTE=ken@foothills]

My clients are extremely loyal so they would not shop anywhere.

Dear Sir; And Iam trying to say this in the nicest way possible and with all due respect, you sir, are naive.

Actually, I am not. I do the market research.