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Thread: Need specific next-step help - CT

  1. #1
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    Confused Need specific next-step help - CT

    I am quite sure our opthamologist's billing clerk is lying about our bills. My husband saw the dr. in August, 2005, for a routine eye exam. We got the first bill in January, 2006: Exam (established patient): $150; Refraction (est. patient): $100. My husband had paid $30 at the visit, as a co-pay, since he was not sure if our insurance covered routine eye exams (it does not). Amount due and noted PAST DUE: $220.

    I called about the amount and the lateness of the bill. The billing clerk called back and said that since our insurance company did not pay for the refraction, they had written off the $100 charge, so we owed $120. She also said this was not the first bill, it was the third; one had been sent to us in November and two in December. I dispute this, but even if it were true, a first bill in November for an August 9th eye exam is VERY LATE.

    My husband and I are both CPAs (for a combined 50+ years) and have auditors instincts. When I told him about this conversation, he said something seemed wrong about the whole thing. I agreed. I was sure I had not received a previous bill, and also that I had not received an Explanation of Benefits showing the claim had been denied. To be certain, I looked at all our claims on-line and spoke to two different reps at the insurance company, and no claim had ever been submitted by the opthamologist for this visit. The reps told me that if a claim had been submitted, it would show up and an EOB would have been mailed to us and to the doctor, regardless of the approval or denial of the claim.

    A week later I called the billing clerk again and asked why there was no record of a claim having been submitted. I also asked her why the $100 for the refraction was not taken off the bill, but was only taken off when I phoned her. The bill as we received it, with "PAST DUE", could be intimidating. I can see very easily how someone might get frightened by the PAST DUE, or not be able to phone the office during working hours to discuss it; in other words, PAY IT without questioning it.

    The clerk began explaining about refraction and that my insurance company doesn't pay for it. I understand refraction, and I understand that my insurance company doesn't pay for it. What I needed from her was proof that she ever submitted a claim. She asked me why I needed that since the insurance company wouldn't pay for it anyway. I said I thought something very odd was going on with the lateness of the bills, the high charges, and the verbal reference to insurance company denying the refraction -- when the insurance company had never been billed.

    The clerk was not my best friend by then. She called back the next day to say she had wired the claim to the insurance company, and it had been denied, it was somewhere in her notes, or they called her, not sure. I checked with the insurance reps who told me, again, that any claim would show up, and any denial would have been sent to me in an EOB. Their records showed nothing. I checked with the insurance company who used to handle the vision claims prior to 2004, just to be sure, and they had no claims.

    Our suspisions are that the opthamologist's billing is purposely late so that by the time a patient gets the bill the patient will assume he has misplaced previous bills, is in danger of being turned over to a collection agency, is intimidated and just pays it - fast. When I called about the high charges, the billing clerk immediately said they were writing off the $100 refraction fee because our insurance company didn't cover that. While this is true - our insurance company doesn't pay for any portion of the routine eye exam- the clerk never submitted the claim to insurance, though she says she did. Her saying they wrote it off because insurance didn't pay it - how did she know they didn't pay it if she had never submitted a claim? Why would she say she had submitted it?

    The clerk told me about the $100 write-off so fast, it came across as a prepared remark to make to patients who called about the high charge for the exam and the additional charge for the refraction.

    My husband and I think there is a pattern of delayed bills, false claims about submissions to insurance companies, and high charges. The payoff to the doctor (or the clerk) would be from patients who get frightened by the "past due" and pay the entire (padded) bill quickly, before they get into trouble with a creditor.

    One last oddity: our son saw the same doctor in November, 2005, for a routine eye exam. But our son has type 1 diabetes, so his eye exams ARE covered by insurance. I asked the clerk if she had submitted his claim properly - as medically necessary due to diabetes. She "looked it up" and said yes, she had. The insurance company had not received any claims for my son. This really made no sense since the visit was covered. Later she told me she submitted it but it was rejected because his coverage ended in 2004. (Reason: our son went onto COBRA in 2004 and got a new insurance card with a new ID # - she was using the old number.) The question is: if she really had submitted the claim when she said she did, and it bounced back, we would have/ should have received a bill from the doctor's office asking for payment or new insurance information. All the other doctors who saw our son in that same week in November (home from college, he saw dentist, dr., eye dr., endocrinolgist all in 1 week) submitted claims which were paid, meaning they all had the correct ID#, my son had his card, etc.

    This seems to support the idea that the office is delaying sending out bills, and the clerk automatically says she submitted claims to insurance companies when she actually hasn't. Either she is incredibly inefficient (but has worked for the dr. for 15 years) or is lying.

    So -- the insurance company has begun an inquiry about my husband's supposed claim, but the only evidence is the lack of evidence. We think something is rotten here. Do we go to the State of CT - licensing??? Insurance fraud?? What is the next best step?

  2. #2
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Listen, you've gotten out-of-hand, here. No fraud, no conspiracy, no Machiavellian billing policies.

    Here's what usually happens:
    Your office visit plus refraction is normally submitted to your health insurer for denial purposes; that is; it is done to prove to you that they will not cover it. It really didn't need to be done, but some offices do that as a matter of policy.

    In reality, if you had no medical diagnosis, then the office had no obligation to submit a claim to your medical insurer, and could have collected at the time of service. While the $150 is reasonable, the $100 is certainly not.

    What seems to have happened, based on one side of the story, only, is that the office made several mistakes in policy (not fraud, conspiracy, or Machiavelli billing tactics):

    1.) It's better to have collected on the day of your visit, and not bother billing the medical.
    2.) It's wrong to have an artificially high refraction fee. I have no idea why they did that. Notice how quick they were to "write off" that amount. That's all-around stupid policy, IMO. A reasonable fee would be $25-50, and it should have been collected from you.
    3.) They seemingly did not file the claim, knowing it would be denied, anyway, and your ledger sat on someone's desk until they started cleaning up the accounts payable, and then sent an "urgent" message to you to pay up. They know that the longer a receivable balance is outstanding, the less likely they are to collect (although they have EVERY right to their money), so they used the mild "past due" stamp. At least they didn't use the "last request before collections" stamp.
    4.) If they did, however, submit the claim (which I guess they didn't), while August to November sounds like a long time, it occasionally takes that long for an insurer to receive, process, and return the claim as denied. While that is not sterling turn-around time, it is not uncommon.
    5.) The bottom line is that the billing department seems very inefficient in that office. If you like the Dr., and would like to be heard, I'd ask him to call you after hours for a discussion with a well-meaning concerned patient. Don't gripe the guy out, he's probably semi-clueless (a fault, nonetheless). If you don't like the guy, just pay the $150 and find a new ophthalmologist.
    6.) An ethical question: do you owe the practice for services rendered, or not? You need to answer that, drawing upon your personal ethos.
    Last edited by drk; 01-11-2006 at 11:31 AM.

  3. #3
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Your provider is responsible for accurate and timely billing. If you feel that the provider did not bill in an accurate and timely manner then please contact everyone – the insurance carrier, the State Insurance Commissioner, The Connecticut Attorney Generals office, Elliot Ness and the Untouchables and anyone else even remotely connected with the health insurance game.

    With the runaway costs of health care it is we consumers obligation to do everything in our power to contain costs and about the only area that we can impact on is fraud.

    Nail the baasted.

  4. #4
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Why do you take that approach, R.B.? It can be said that the patient is responsible for services rendered, as well. A court of law will not say that this patient is not responsible for their bill, regardless of the inefficiencies. Your post is irresponsible. There's absolutely no evidence of insurance fraud.
    Last edited by drk; 01-11-2006 at 12:46 PM.

  5. #5
    Optiboard Professional Bill West's Avatar
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    Get a firm quote

    First of all, you don't need to see an Ophthalmologist for a routine eye exam.
    Call around and find an Optometrist and get a quote for a routine eye exam with and without dilation. If you only need new glasses why see an MD? No medical problem, no MD needed. A lot of Ophthalmologist hire OD's or have a "tech" to do the refraction. They see you briefly and zoom they are gone. Here's your sign and your big bill. Welcome to the "optical world of hustle".
    Remember compare BEFORE you buy. Then be firm and hold them to the quoted fee.
    This goes for eyeglasses also.

  6. #6
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Now THAT'S ^^^ a good point!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill West
    First of all, you don't need to see an Ophthalmologist for a routine eye exam.
    Call around and find an Optometrist and get a quote for a routine eye exam with and without dilation. If you only need new glasses why see an MD? No medical problem, no MD needed. A lot of Ophthalmologist hire OD's or have a "tech" to do the refraction. They see you briefly and zoom they are gone. Here's your sign and your big bill. Welcome to the "optical world of hustle".
    Remember compare BEFORE you buy. Then be firm and hold them to the quoted fee.
    This goes for eyeglasses also.
    Agree, but irrelevant as to if I need opthamologist, optometrist, or local tea-leaf reader.
    People (like my mother age 86) who get bills like this get scared and PAY them. Not everyone has time or inclination to question a doctor's bill, or feels confident when discussing "EOB's" and "Refraction Est Pt" and other medical/insurance terms. This billing clerk kept trying to steer me back to "Refraction" and "denial of claim"; I had to re-center the problem over and over, and that wasn't easy. She had a well practiced speech and was like a tele-marketer, never give up, never stop the pitch.

    I can find another someone to take care of my eyes. But I don't like what I see with this office, and I don't think it is anything personal, I think it is a little gimmick that is costing some patients (enough to keep doing it) their hard-earned money.

    Bottom line: Why is she lying? Lazy? Maybe. Crooked? MAYBE. Should someone question why a person lies? YES, no maybe about that.

  8. #8
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    DRK --

    I never said there was insurance fraud.

    Agree- no evidence of ____________ anything. If the billing clerk could produce evidence that she submitted a claim, that would be wonderful.

    If there is any fraud, which is the question, it would be from overcharging and sending bills late, with the intention of scaring patients into writing that check right now. It's working, obviously not on everyone. Why in January has my son not gotten a bill from his Nov. visit? Busy time of year? Heavy mail load? Got lost with all those Christmas cards? All the other doctors managed to send theirs out. This just must be one really inefficient place.

    Something is wrong and there's a reason for it, but I never said anyone is committing insurance fraud, so please don't put words in my mouth.

  9. #9
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    What they did and are doing is not insurance fraud, they're an office simply run very very inefficient. They should've just been honest and told you that if they're no medical diagnosis, then you're insurance company will deny and you are charged. They didn't do that initially and basically they didn't want to spend the time billing a claim that would be denied. Unfortunatly DRK is right, nothing illegal sounds like it was done. Unprofessional in every way? Yes. If you still question whether your insurance company will pay, ask them. Give them your diagnosis and they'll be able to tell you if they will pay and then you'll know. It's a shame how they handled the entire situation and I hope you get better service in the future.

  10. #10
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    Sloppy billing

    Quote Originally Posted by rbaker
    Your provider is responsible for accurate and timely billing.
    Your right, if THEY want to get paid! I don't see a problem here other than the some slop. This is 100% not insurance fraud! I realize that nobody wants to get a bill that says overdue, but drk is very correct in the way collections are handled. Routine eye care is not covered by medical insurance and there is no requirement to submit insurance that is definately going to be declined. As far as your son is concerned, their is policy to handle his situation. The office has a certain amount of time to file a claim and if that deadline is not meet they are responsible if the are an in network provider. If your son had insurance at the time of the exam, you should not be billed. If you are billed, then you can get mad and even. This office is very sloppy and I am sorry that you are having issues, but legally speaking everything in within the lines so far.

    My recommendation: You will probably just have to ride out what has already been done in terms of office visits and billing. Follow the other posters' advise and see an optometrist for routine eye exams, it won't cost so much. Look at that refraction fee $100 - WOW!!! I know what they are doing and it is wrong, not illegal but wrong. By the way, optometrists can handle your sons diabetes as well, unless they need surgical care. At the very least don't go back to an office that treats you this way.

    Good luck, and sorry about your frustration.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joycedes
    Do we go to the State of CT - licensing??? Insurance fraud?? What is the next best step?
    This is where we are getting insurance fraud.

  12. #12
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joycedes
    I never said there was insurance fraud.

    but I never said anyone is committing insurance fraud, so please don't put words in my mouth.
    I was referring to R.Baker's post.

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    I told my husband before his visit that we were not covered for routine eye exams, and never expected anyone to pay this bill for us.

    I didn't ask the dr.'s office to submit anything, ever, to anyone for payment other than to us.

    The problem arose because:

    1. The first bill arrived in January 2006 for an August 2005 visit, and was marked PAST DUE

    2. The amount they charged was outrageous.

    I have NO problem with the insurance company; we don't have coverage for routine eye care, I know this and knew it then, and never expected anything to go through insurance. This is not about the INSURANCE COMPANY.

    The clerk said the insurance company denied the refraction charge of $100, so they would write it off. That's where the problem starts. If it was written off, why was it still on my January bill? pr did my phone call prompt her to say it? I NEVER asked her what my insurance company pays, since I know they don't pay for routine eye care.

    She's spinning a web, and the question is why? I've audited enough people and companies in my life, sole propietors, LLC's, etc etc. to recognize something that stinks, and this does. I really have no personal stake in this, and do have better things to do, (DRK no offense taken). I owe the $120 and will pay it. But I'd owe $220 if I hadn't called her. Do I believe that the insurance company doesn't pay for refraction and the $100 was taken off my bill BEFORE I called her? Uh -- no I don't. So the next person who gets billed $100 for refraction may not be able to call, and will pay it. That stinks, OK? It's wrong.

  14. #14
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    I would just be happy that they didn't charge you the extra 100.00 for the refraction. It is extremley high for that procedure, however they are free to charge what ever they want as long as they charge everyone the same. Like DRK said, if you like the Doctor and want to continue going there, pay the bill and ask him to talk with you personally, however, if you don't like him, again pay the bill and move on. The whole situation does stink and was very unprofessional of them but there's really nothing you can do other then cut your losses and move on. If you feel you must say something to someone, call the BBB. But we all know that you'll do just as much damage from telling your friends and family. Word does get around. Unfortunatley for that office, the word will be the wrong kind.

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    It is possible that this is something the billing clerk is doing on her own. I doubt that the doctors get too involved with the billing processes, as long as the cash flow is OK.

    We will pay our bill, and I am glad that $100 came off easily, and yes, we will look for another dr. But maybe I should speak directly to this doctor. Our friend The Trusted Employee almost always worked alone, at least that's what we were taught in auditing class in college.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joycedes
    It is possible that this is something the billing clerk is doing on her own. I doubt that the doctors get too involved with the billing processes, as long as the cash flow is OK.

    But maybe I should speak directly to this doctor.
    Definately!!! I know a very similar situation and things get done when the doctor becomes aware. It can be difficult for a busy doc to keep up with everything, particularly collections. I encourage you strongly to give that doctor a chance to fix the problems in his office, I certainly would want to know!

  17. #17
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    Thanks -- I guess talking about various options in this forum really is a good idea, because it IS possible he is a very good doctor with a very bad billing clerk, and it isn't easy to find good doctors nearby.

    Appreciate your remarks.

  18. #18
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Drk said:

    “I was referring to R.Baker's post.”

    R. Baker did not say that there was insurance fraud either. He merely suggested that if the patient suspected insurance fraud that they contact the appropriate authorities and let them determine whether the claim was handled in an illegal or fraudulent manner.

    How can anyone have a problem with that ?

  19. #19
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    DRK can we get back to the point please?

    If you had a routine eye exam, and your eyes were completely healthy, but because the eye exam didn't include the additional charge for refraction, you could leave the office legally blind, hop in the car and kill someone. OK - ridiculous. Yes - and so is a $150 routine eye exam that doesn't include vision correction.

    Forget insurance fraud, this guy and his clerk should just buy a mask and a gun and rob people the old fashioned way.

  20. #20
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Well, no one forced you to see an ophthalmologist for a routine exam. OD generally charge about half that, and throw in the refraction as well.

    Ophthalmology is the first or second or third most popular specialty in medicine, and tends to attract the cream of the crop. They are generally very highly trained surgeons and subspecialists. They earn their money. They're easily worth $150 for a comprehensive new exam. They aren't used to doing "routine exams", anyway.

    Now, again, the refraction thing was a rip-off, plain and simple.

    Next time visit an O.D. Not because we're cheaper, but because we really specialize in vision examination and eye health screening, and can provide, I think, better routine care than an ophthalmology practice, because we're geared that way.

  21. #21
    Master OptiBoarder Joann Raytar's Avatar
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    Regardless of how each of us feels about what was sloppy or fraudulent or whatever ... you question the bill and that office's billing procedures. Don't be afraid to question it or take things to a third party if you feel that you are being given a run around. If the Doctor's office didn't do anything wrong all anyone has to lose are hurt feelings and a bit of time (it sounds like finding a new doctor's office wouldn't hurt anyway).

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