U.S. leads the way on human rights - My Butt

[QDO1]

U.S. leads the way on human rights, White House says

ASSOCIATED PRESS

December 3, 2005

WASHINGTON – The White House said yesterday that the United States is the world leader on human rights, despite outrage in Europe over reports of secret CIA prisons where terrorism detainees might have been mistreated.

The administration has refused to address the question of whether it operated secret sites that may be illegal under European law, citing the constraints of classified information. Secret prisons and many harsh methods of interrogation would be illegal on U.S. soil.

"The president had made it very clear that we do not torture, he would never condone torture or authorize the use of torture," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said. "If someone doesn't abide by our laws, they're held accountable. That's the difference between us and others."

More than a half-dozen investigations are under way into whether European countries may have hosted secret U.S.-run prisons, and whether European airports and airspace were used for CIA flights in which prisoners were tortured or transported to countries where torture is practiced.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has pledged a response to the European Union on the issue, but has given no timetable. It is not clear whether her reply will contain the definitive yes or no as to the existence of prisons first reported a month ago by The Washington Post.

Rice also has pledged to discuss the issue publicly before she leaves Monday for a trip to European capitals. Her itinerary includes Romania, one country identified by the advocacy group Human Rights Watch as a likely prison site. Romania has denied it.

"When it comes to human rights, there is no greater leader than the United States of America, and we show that by holding people accountable when they break the law or violate human rights, and we show that by supporting the advance of freedom and democracy and supporting those in countries that are having their human rights denied or violated, like North Korea," McClellan said.

"We show that by liberating people in Afghanistan and Iraq – some 50 million people. No one has done more when it comes to human rights than the United States of America. I think the American people understand."

[rinselberg]

I think you're losing sight of the forest for one of the trees, my friend ...

[spartus]

No, you've got it wrong. They lead the way in human rights through your butt. Usually with a chemical light.

[QDO1]

I think you're losing sight of the forest for one of the trees, my friend ...

It only takes 1 diseased tree to wipe out the forest. Human rights are for the individual, not the many, that’s the point

[rinselberg]

It's the style of your post, King, more than the content, that draws my response (above). Your title is catchy and provocative. But there are others who post on this forum that use a very similar style - and they are not as reflective or as rational in their views, as is King. Personally, I wouldn't want to encourage them to keep on making the same mistakes, again and again and again ...

[spartus]

It only takes 1 diseased tree to wipe out the forest. Human rights are for the individual, not the many, that’s the point

GWB: The Dutch Elm disease of global human rights.

[Jacqui]

I have to agree with QDO1. Our record really is terrible, especially here in the US under the disguise of "Homeland Security"

[Roy R. Ferguson]

Hi All:

On December 9, 1968 I was shot down for the third and final time. My observer was killed in that action, as were several ground troops. The bad guys we were fighting had executed a woman and four or five kids the week before because someone in the village had stolen a ballpoint from one of the VC cadre. Yet, upon returning to the States, I discovered that I was the baby killer preying on a group of innocent rice farmers. Since then I’ve assumed that “truthful newspapers” and “honest politicians” are oxymorons to be believed only when history proves them correct.



Roy

[QDO1]

Hi All:

On December 9, 1968 I was shot down for the third and final time. My observer was killed in that action, as were several ground troops. The bad guys we were fighting had executed a woman and four or five kids the week before because someone in the village had stolen a ballpoint from one of the VC cadre. Yet, upon returning to the States, I discovered that I was the baby killer preying on a group of innocent rice farmers. Since then I’ve assumed that “truthful newspapers” and “honest politicians” are oxymorons to be believed only when history proves them correct.



Roy

Exactly what info do you suggest we believe in to be factual news?

[rinselberg]

Renditons: The CIA maintains that the GWOT (Global War On Terror) could not be carried forward effectively without these extraordinary measures.

The Washington Post reports that in their pursuit of al-Qaida terrorists, some overaggressive CIA agents have made a number of serious missteps that are undercutting U.S. credibility on human rights issues, and damaging the reputation of the U.S. all around the globe.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10316560/


credit: RinselNews™

[Roy R. Ferguson]

It is my considered opinion that you, as well as many others, will choose whatever news source you can dredge up to confirm your worldview.

Roy

[jherman]

I have a cold one waiting for you in San Antonio. Let me know when you will be in town.

Thank you for your service.

James Herman

[fvc2020]

Here we go again:finger: We have this conversation over and over again. Mr. Fergunson, bless you and the service you provided. You are an example of the men and women of our Armed Forces who are hurt by conversation like this all the time. Shame Shame Shame.


We all have different beliefs and thoughts on the War on Terror. Most of the time no one supports or give better thought out alternatives to the mess that the radical extremetist have put our country in. Unless you can do this, let's not have this conversation again.

Christina

[ksquared]

Here we go again:finger: We have this conversation over and over again. Mr. Fergunson, bless you and the service you provided. You are an example of the men and women of our Armed Forces who are hurt by conversation like this all the time. Shame Shame Shame.

We all have different beliefs and thoughts on the War on Terror. Most of the time no one supports or give better thought out alternatives to the mess that the radical extremetist have put our country in. Unless you can do this, let's not have this conversation again. Christina

So let me make sure I understand what you are saying. Forgive me, as I can be rather dense at times.

We all have different beliefs and thoughts on the War on Terror. But only one of these is “true” which just happens to be be the one I beleive in. So unless Roy Ferguson is willing to change his perspective and can come up his own plan to extract us from the mess those low down radical extremists (I’m assuming you mean the elected President Bush and all his cronies) have put our country in, this conversation has to stop.

Are these the OB rules of debate? No wonder I have so much trouble here. Let’s take a look at what I have collected thus far.

1. “All” politicians are liars unless I happen agree with them.
2. Those who disagree with my beliefs are radical extremists.
3. Any arguments offered in defense of current policies are completely false unless they support my personal opinion and/or beliefs.

Personally, I’m willing to have all voices heard on this particular subject. So why doesn't someone share the “real” reason Bush took us to war in the 1st place if he deliberately lied to us all? And what would his motives be for keeping us there any longer than necessary.

[chip anderson]

I'd sure rather have Roy standing next to me at Meggido than any liberal.


Chip

[fvc2020]

For the record I completely support this war and my president. I don't have belived I said anything about US(members of this board or anyone else) citizens being extremist. I meant hmmmm maybe those gentleman who flew the planes into the Twin Towers are extremeist. They and those associated with them put the US in the position it is in.

The point I was making was that this board and the members on it go round and round on their politcal views. Its seems like a shouting match everytime subject like human rights(anyones), the war, left/right issues etc come up. I hope that we can find a way to have good debate instead of that.

I'm with Chip, I will be praying to be at Meddigo with Roy too:bbg:
christina

[ksquared]

My apologies Christina. I’m so used to the Bush/Conservative bashing that takes place on this board that I jumped to the wrong conclusions when I read your post.

[Spexvet]

Are you folks outraged when Americans are tortured, mistreated, or when their human rights are not respected?

[rinselberg]

Are you folks outraged when Americans are tortured, mistreated, or when their human rights are not respected?

All the more reason to read and contemplate the Washington Post report on CIA renditions that I cited in my previous post (above).

[rinselberg]

My apologies Christina. I’m so used to the Bush/Conservatives bashing that takes place on this board that I jumped to the wrong conclusions when I read your post.

Is this what's known as a "friendly fire" incident?

:bbg:

[chm2023]

So let me make sure I understand what you are saying. Forgive me, as I can be rather dense at times.

We all have different beliefs and thoughts on the War on Terror. But only one of these is “true” which just happens to be be the one I beleive in. So unless Roy Ferguson is willing to change his perspective and can come up his own plan to extract us from the mess those low down radical extremists (I’m assuming you mean the elected President Bush and all his cronies) have put our country in, this conversation has to stop.

Are these the OB rules of debate? No wonder I have so much trouble here. Let’s take a look at what I have collected thus far.

1. “All” politicians are liars unless I happen agree with them.
2. Those who disagree with my beliefs are radical extremists.
3. Any arguments offered in defense of current policies are completely false unless they support my personal opinion and/or beliefs.

Personally, I’m willing to have all voices heard on this particular subject. So why doesn't someone share the “real” reason Bush took us to war in the 1st place if he deliberately lied to us all? And what would his motives be for keeping us there any longer than necessary.

Re the last paragraph above: well only Bush can answer this. My take is the "real" reason was not an oil-grab (too conspiratorial) or to avenge his daddy (too psychobabble) but rather an ill-conceived and naive attempt to establish a Constitution based democracy in the (Islamic/Arab) middle east. The 9/11 attacks were a convenient excuse. Do I think this was done for evil reasons? No, think it was done with the sincere belief that it would result in a flowering of democracy in the middle east and an eventual decline in terrorism.

Unfortunately I think this is being shown as we speak to be a grossly misdirected policy, and one that was based on the zealotry of the neo-con movement, not history. (Remember Cheney's comment that we would be celebrated as liberators, and Wolfowitz's comment that this would be a "cakewalk": anyone can make a mistake you may say--but this to me indicates a truly shocking degree of fantasy in the minds of this administration's leadership. Dear God.) Does the fact that there has never been a constitutionally driven democracy in this part of the world not give you pause? And would history suggest that forms of governments imposed on people are ever successful in the long run?

[chm2023]

How sad we have come to the point where we have to articulate that we as a country are against torture.If the United States wants to keep claim to the moral high ground, we need to reject torture. Anyone who has had experience in this--such as John McCain--will tell you it's a bad idea practically--people who are tortured tend to tell their torturers what they think they want to hear and almost always make stuff up, God knows I would!---and of course reprehensible morally.

Have we come to this?

[Bill West]

BEHEADED!

No one and I mean no one who is not military should be in the war zone.
We are dealing with a bunch of NUT CAKES who kill women and children as well as a lot of innocent people in the name of their religion.
We should give no quarter when dealing with them. Take NO prisoners ask for no mercy and give none. It should be treated as a war and the object would to bring them to their knees or wipe them out ASAP.
Why don't all you crying liberals go over there and dig wells or shovel camel poop.

Are you folks outraged when Americans are tortured, mistreated, or when their human rights are not respected?

[Spexvet]

We are dealing with a bunch of NUT CAKES who kill women and children as well as a lot of innocent people in the name of their religion.

The Crusades were long ago - why bring them up now?

[chip anderson]

John McCain = The Manchurian Candiate.