The War on Christmas

[chm2023]

As you may or may not know the right wing crazies are all a-twitter about what they call the "war" on Christmas. The hysteria boils down to the fact that some stores, cities etc refer to the "holiday" season as in "Happy Holidays" versus "Merry Christmas" for example, or "holiday tree" not "Christmas tree." The undercurrent being (of course) that Christianity is under attack by the usual suspects: the press, liberals, "secularists" etc.

What I find curious about this is the lack of mention of what is indisputably the single biggest "threat" to the Christian notion of Christmas--Santa Claus. But of course, this argument points the finger at the vast majority of Christians who embrace Santa to the inevitable diminishment of the birth of Christ as the primary focus of the holiday. Much better to glower at "liberals" and others who are plotting against decent Americans than to ask people to really examine their own mode of celebration.

I find it particularly comical that department stores are single out as trying to "kill" Christmas. Yeah, everyone knows how retail hates Christmas, all those crowds, all those sales, yuck!!!!:hammer:

[QDO1]

I dont celebrate christmas, I give things to peole when I want to, as a surprise, or when the need is greatest. Department stores make 50% of thier profit in the weeks around christmas, and they are pretty marketing savy, so i imagine they know what they are doing

[chm2023]

I dont celebrate christmas, I give things to peole when I want to, as a surprise, or when the need is greatest. Department stores make 50% of thier profit in the weeks around christmas, and they are pretty marketing savy, so i imagine they know what they are doing

Do you have children?

[QDO1]

Do you have children?

nope, last year I made the jehovas Witnesses some tea, while they watched me do the housework. The year before i worked in a soup kitchen serving the less fortunate some warm food

[Chairtime]

I understand the concept of Santa Claus doesn't support the birth of Jesus Christ, but I'm not sure it negates it either.

As for the war on Christmas, I do think that calling it X-mas is unnecessary and disrespectful. I guess it all depends on the meaning you attach to something. If someone borrows your lawnmower and never returns it, that costs you money. But if someone spits in your face, it costs nothing. However, which would be more offensive to you?

[GOS_Queen]

I usually don't participate in these types of topics but what the hell here goes: ;)

As a Christian, I believe that DEC. 25, has nothing whatsoever to do with the birth of the Messiah. We are never commanded in scriptures to celebrate or commemorate His birth. (VS His death and ressurection, which we are commanded to remember).

Personally, I believe that He was probably born in the spring as that is when the sacrificial lambs were born. (If I recall correctly, the sacrificial lambs for the temple sacrifices were bred near Bethlehem).

I do feel it is a shame that we can't call a Christmas Tree a "christmas tree". Political correctness has overtaken society. :hammer:

If I remember correctly a Christmas Tree actually has its roots in pagan (druid perhaps ??) celebrations.


I think what is celebrated as "christmas" should be referred to as "affluenza". People run around and buy gifts that are way too expensive that they can't afford to impress people that don't care .... and then the first weeks of January, they all run around and return them for something else because they didn't like the gifts they were given !! :hammer:(and then as the CC bills come in January, they get ill ...)

If people would slow down, invest what is REALLY important with their families, friends (time ... not cheap trinkets ... ) and if they choose to exchange gifts, then give the process some thought ... "what would REALLY make them smile" (vs "is this expensive and impersonal enough for the occasion??")

Anyway, that's my rant on the subject ...

Merry Christmas ! ;)


Karen

[chm2023]

nope, last year I made the jehovas Witnesses some tea, while they watched me do the housework. The year before i worked in a soup kitchen serving the less fortunate some warm food

Good for you, a lovely way to celebrate the season of giving. Do think once you have kids, the game changes pretty significantly.

[QDO1]

Good for you, a lovely way to celebrate the season of giving. Do think once you have kids, the game changes pretty significantly.

I will never have kids

[ikon44]

it amazes me how many non practising christians (not churchgoers) decide to go to midnight mass on Chrismas Eve.

[Spexvet]

...
I do feel it is a shame that we can't call a Christmas Tree a "christmas tree". Political correctness has overtaken society. :hammer:
...
Karen

You certainly can call a Christmas Tree a "christmas tree". It's only the government who shouldn't - unless they want to light a manorah, celebrate kwanza and ramadan (sp), and all ohter religions' holidays. After all, you wouldn't want them to celebrate Channukah and ignore Christmas, would you? Call it "political fairness", or "political equity".

[Chairtime]

It still seems like overkill not to call it Christmas. Call Kwanza Kwanza. Call Hanuhka Hanuhka. Christmas is Christmas. A spade is a spade.

Okay, maybe the government shouldn't "be" Christian. But Christmas is the name of the holiday on December 25th. You can't deny that just by not calling it by its proper name.

As for businesses and corporations, they don't give a hoot about any particular religion. They only want to do whatever offends the lowest number of people.

[JRS]

FYI, Chairtime -


The "X" in X-mas, is not an X (as in the English X), it is the greek letter (chi) which is the first letter of christ, in greek. I do not beleive it was intended as a bad thing, just most people don't realize where it came from.
Actually the season is Yule (around DECEMBER 22nd)

Yule is the time of greatest darkness and the longest night of the year. The Winter Solstice had been associated with the birth of a "Divine King" long before the rise of Christianity. Since the Sun is considered to represent the Male Divinity in many Pagan Traditions, this time is celebrated as the "return of the Sun God" where He is reborn of the Goddess

[chip anderson]

What you say is true but X-mas came into use so it would fit in advertizing copy better. Had nothing to do with Greek symbols.

Can remember back in the late 1940's when it first started being used and how offended our parents and thier peers were by it.

Chip

[chip anderson]

GOS Queen:
Have you noticed how similar "political correctness" is to Orwell's "Newspeak" ? And I understand that in London and other cites in the U.K. it is already difficult to find a spot where "Big Brother" is not watching on hidden cameras.
Perhaps Old George was more of a prophet that we care to admit.

Chip

[QDO1]

Christmas for 99% of people has nothing to do with Christ

Christmas is just a appalling display of gluttony, over indulgence and rude consumerism. We spoil children rotten, and spend far too much on a pile of crap that we dont need

Personally I spend christmas either being quiet, or helping the needy. If more people had similar values there would be less debt, more idea of what the needy need, and how to deal with the impoverished in this world, and our children would be more balanced in thier outlook

This year I have made hampers for four families I met last year, when I was looking for a flat... they are regugees, living in abject poverty, and being exploited by the $hitty system of landlords and DHSS over here. One of these families I met had 1 tin of beans and 1 piece of chicken between 4 (1 adult, 2 kids, and a baby) to last the weekend. While Im back in that town I will get them new Calor gass bottles for thier heating, so at least the kids will be warm

But who gives a stuff, I'm a grumpy old athiest, who is described elsewhere on this board as "the godless" and "without vaues". Ho Hum

[Spexvet]

GOS Queen:
Have you noticed how similar "political correctness" is to Orwell's "Newspeak" ? And I understand that in London and other cites in the U.K. it is already difficult to find a spot where "Big Brother" is not watching on hidden cameras.
Perhaps Old George was more of a prophet that we care to admit.

Chip

And have you noticed how the Cheney administration behaves like Big Brother - if you contradict them, they punish you?

[chip anderson]

No, I hadn't noticed and I criticize them all the time.

[Spexvet]

No, I hadn't noticed and I criticize them all the time.

Watch out, they might stick a rat cage on your face, or out your wife, if she happens to be a covert CIA agent.

[Chairtime]

Christmas for 99% of people has nothing to do with Christ

Christmas is just a appalling display of gluttony, over indulgence and rude consumerism. We spoil children rotten, and spend far too much on a pile of crap that we dont need

Personally I spend christmas either being quiet, or helping the needy. If more people had similar values there would be less debt, more idea of what the needy need, and how to deal with the impoverished in this world, and our children would be more balanced in thier outlook

This year I have made hampers for four families I met last year, when I was looking for a flat... they are regugees, living in abject poverty, and being exploited by the $hitty system of landlords and DHSS over here. One of these families I met had 1 tin of beans and 1 piece of chicken between 4 (1 adult, 2 kids, and a baby) to last the weekend. While Im back in that town I will get them new Calor gass bottles for thier heating, so at least the kids will be warm

But who gives a stuff, I'm a grumpy old athiest, who is described elsewhere on this board as "the godless" and "without vaues". Ho Hum

Well if you're helping the needy, you're not without values, and you have my applause. Your first sentence however, does support you being a grumpy old athiest. It would be more accurate to say "Christmas for 99% of Athiests has nothing to do with Christ."

[coda]

As for the war on Christmas, I do think that calling it X-mas is unnecessary and disrespectful. I guess it all depends on the meaning you attach to something. If someone borrows your lawnmower and never returns it, that costs you money. But if someone spits in your face, it costs nothing. However, which would be more offensive to you?

FYI from wikipedia:

Xian or Xtian is another word used to describe Christians and is similar to using Xmas in place of Christmas; the X or Xt used as a contraction for "Christ" ("X" resembles the Greek letter Χ (Chi), the first letter of "Christ" in Greek (Χριστός [Christos]).

Oops, I see this was mentioned above, I should read the whole thread before I post.

To Chip's point about the first use of X-mass I will say that the first use of Chi (X) to represent Christ apparently has ancient roots. It was used in the pre-Christian Roman Empire as a sort of secret pass word for Christians and was used to mark secret churches and gathering places for Christians.

[Bev Heishman]

There are many religous holidays occuring between Thanksgiving (here in the States) and late January. The US is multicultural and every one should be respected for their beliefs. Not knowing what faith one is or their ethnicticity Happy Holidays is an appropriate response. It is not all about Christianity. I have friends of all groups and they respect me for mine.

We have a group of individuals-Right Wingers-whom are very child like in their behaviors and their beliefs going crazy. Grow Up and get a life. There is a bigger picture but they are myopic and see own beliefs. The them selves moved away from Catholiscm many years ago. And my biggest thought? And you say you are a Christian?
Liberal as ever, Bev

[Blake]

I don't really see the problem with "Happy Holidays" v. "Merry Christmas". Since Christmas is the holiday I celebrate this time of year (in addition to Festivus), that is the one that will be happy for me. If I'm lucky I'll also manage to have a fabulous Hannukah and Ramadan, although I'll have to look at the calendar to see if my happiness correlates to these holidays. I may even have a hoot on Kwanzaa!

Now, as far as renaming the Christmas tree... I wasn't aware that all the other world religions had adopted it for their own celebrations. Next thing you know the menorah will be called the "holiday candle set" so the muslims aren't offended. Of course the major question on my mind is this: if upside-down crosses are symbols associated with satanism, what should we make of the current fad of upside down Christmas trees? :D

[coda]

I think what is celebrated as "christmas" should be referred to as "affluenza".

I am so sending out 'Happy Affluenza' cards this year!

[Jedi]

what should we make of the current fad of upside down Christmas trees? :D

More presents.:D I do recall reading an article regarding upside-down tree and their historical significance, I'll see if I can recall where I saw it.

[spartus]

And have you noticed how the Cheney administration behaves like Big Brother - if you contradict them, they punish you?

Not to pull the thread horribly off-topic, but since we're talking Orwell, I love this. And, for what it's worth, there are a lot of cameras in London, as well as a large number of very polite signs that inform you you're being taped. Most of them that I saw are in tunnels going to/from the Tube that could otherwise be a fairly isolated place where a crime could very easily go unwitnessed.

Relating to the actual topic, it is silly, now that Blake mentions it, about "holiday" trees. However. I can call it a Christmas tree, you can call it a Christmas tree, your Great Aunt Bessie can call it a Christmas tree, but when a city/county/state calls it a Christmas tree, it could very easily be argued that the city/county/state is being unfair to other religions in not having a giant city menorah display, for instance. This is exactly why there has been trouble with civic Christmas displays that include a nativity scene--it's specific to Christianity, where the whole tree thing has its roots in a secular(ish) tradition. There is some symbology there, having an evergreen tree displayed in the home in the dead of winter.