Trial PALs in Trial Frame

[Bobie]

1. You can test progressive addition lenses ( PALs ) by yourself by Cycloplegic.

2. You have to made PALs Trial Set in 34 mm ring to test in trial frame adjust. ( This trial fame must be adjustable for Pantoscopic Tilt Angle ( PTA ) , P.D. and P.Height.

2.1 You have to correct your Distance Rx with trial lens first.

2.2 Put PALs Trial Set Plano ADD in your addition to Trial Frame.

2.3 Test reading area with newspaper and mark with big pen and find out distorsion by swing you head and move you eye around to check the swimming effect on newspaper and do the same for other PALs that you would like to compare.

2.4 Test intermediate area by use the clear plastic film cover on the monitor of computer and test for intermediate vision with computer and swing your head and move you eye around to check the swimming effect on screen , then mark with big pen and do the same for other PALs.

2.5 Test distance area by looking to Snell Chart at 6 meters and swing your head and move you eye around to check the swimming effect at distance.

2.6 Test instant focus system by changing focus from far to near , near to far , far to intermediate and intermediate to near , do it many time and do it fast as fast possible to compare many difference kind of PALs.

2.7 Test for dynamic vision by walking and moving around fast as fast possible to check swimming effect and speed of clear vision.

2.8 Test for comfort of vision by wear it for 20 minute and act like in your real life like your work , your hobby , your habits and your car.

2.9 You can use this method to present your customer that , how big difference between cheap PALs and expensive PALs. ( Normally , I use Varilux Panamic compare with Hoyalux GP and all of my customer know that Panamic better than GP more than 3 time in every test , and nobody would like to going for GP or cheap PALs anymore. If they have low budget , they will going to any PALs that between GP and Panamic , like Varilux Comfort , Sola Percepta , Rodenstock Progressiv AT, but more than 5% of them going for Varilux Ipseo , 15% of them going for Rodenstock Impression ILT , 20% going for Panamic and 20% of them going for Varilux Comfort , 25% going for Rodenstock Progressiv AT and less going for Essilor InterView 080 )

2.10 I have more than 12 difference Trial PALs from Plano ADD 1.00D to Plano ADD 3.00D. Yes , it’s a lot of money to investment in these , but in the fact , I have more profit to cover this investment within 1 month only. Because no customer going for cheap PALs or Bi-focal or SV reading anymore , but they going for Panamic , Comfort , Progressiv AT



3. We test many premium PALs on one person for Rodenstock Impression ILT , Panamic , Ipseo , Comfort , Rodenstock Progressiv AT , Rodenstock Impression ILT XS , Hoyalux Summit pro , Hoyalux iD , Hoyalux Summit CD , Hoyalux GP Wide , Hoyalux TACT , Essilor InterView , Rodenstock Nexyma 40 and 80 to find out final conclusion in 9 months of used. We chosse our fathers to test because it is very easy to follow up. ( Our father lived with us )

4. We never believe what company of PALs say , we believe only what we test.

5. We can say , Rodenstock Impression ILT is much better than Hoyalux iD in every point and Varilux Comfort much better than Hoyalux Summit pro.

6. Customer who move the head more than the eye , suitable for more soft design and dynamic vision is their piority.

7. Customer who move the eye more than the head , suitable for more hard design and panoramic vision.

8. Customer who have high hyperope or high myope and with high presbyope, suitable for Variable Inset PALs by Ametropia and Addition like Varilux Panamic

9. Customer who have problem about near point convergence or Anisometropia over 1.25D or CYL. Over – 2.00D , suitable for Free Form PALs like Rodenstock Impression ILT , Varilux Ipseo , Hoyalux iD.

10. Customer who have special parameter of Pantoscopic Tilt Angle , Face Form Angle , Cornea Vertex Distance , suitable for Individual Free Form PALs like Rodenstock Impression ILT.


Sincerely ,

Mr.Somboon Chaowanakosol
President
Advance Progressive Addition Lenses Club ( APC )
www.apcthai.com

Bangkok , Thailand
e-mail : apcoptik@yahoo.com
Tel.+66 (0) 1 5384200
" Life is beautiful and sight is life "

[QDO1]

1. You can test progressive addition lenses ( PALs ) by yourself by Cycloplegic.

Not everyone on this board will understand the implication of this.. DO not try this one unles you are supervised, understand what you are doing, and are qualified in the use of ophthalmic drugs

Or better still DO not try this

[cnet_baby]

1. You can test progressive addition lenses ( PALs ) by yourself by Cycloplegic.

2. You have to made PALs Trial Set in 34 mm ring to test in trial frame adjust. ( This trial fame must be adjustable for Pantoscopic Tilt Angle ( PTA ) , P.D. and P.Height.

2.1 You have to correct your Distance Rx with trial lens first.

2.2 Put PALs Trial Set Plano ADD in your addition to Trial Frame.

2.3 Test reading area with newspaper and mark with big pen and find out distorsion by swing you head and move you eye around to check the swimming effect on newspaper and do the same for other PALs that you would like to compare.

"

i am very interesting what you trying to say, but is it i find a frame in 34mm height? then cut all the different progressive inside the same frame separate for example 7 different PALs in 7 pair , so how bout the PD i set? so how the addition? distance i make it PLANo ,then let patient try and see, but how bout some patient who had high myope or hyperope, they can't find out the different???? Pls tell me more what i gonna do?

[Bobie]

Hi , Cenet baby

• We have to use “ Trial Frame Adjustable ” that can put 8 pieces of trial lenses and can adjust parameter at below ;

1.1 P.D. from 54 mm up to 70 mm at 2 mm step each and can decenter P.D. to right or left +/- 2 mm

1.2 can adjust Pantoscopic Tilt Angle +/- 5 degree and Fitting Height +/- 3 mm

• We have to correct distance Rx SPH. / CYL. With trial lenses , then put the “ PALs Trial Lenses ” in Rx Addition.

• The patient who had high myope or high hyperope can find out the different of quality of vision in 7 PALs Trial Lenses even at Addition 1.00D.

If you are very interesting to fitting PALs in Advance Professional Level , may be you can join with our club that will be open for international in this year. We have seminar every May of every year.



At the moment our club focus on Near Point Down Gaze Convergence P.D. to find out the best P.D. of fitting PALs models by models , Rx by Rx and in our clinical study report that , it is possible to fitting budget PALs by this method that can have nearly the same reading performance like expensive PALs.

:cheers:

[cnet_baby]

bobie, could you send more about the trial frame, actually i really dont know what it look like , and how can we put the 7 different PALs inside there.
normally out trial frame just hav 3 space to let trial lens get it , but how bout the trial frame that you say????
can you send me more the information??

[Bobie]

Hi , Cenet baby

Please inform me about your e-mail address and I will send the picture of Trial Frame Adjustable.

This sunday we will have basic training course of PALs and I will take some picture when we demonstated Trial PALs on Trial Frame Adjustable in our class and will send the picture to you via e-mail. ( Please inform me about your space in your e-mail in MB )

We need only 3 space for right and 3 space for left on Trial Frame, 1 for SPH. , 1 for CYL. and 1 for Trial PALs , and we test Trial PALs one by one and do it seven time for 7 Trial PALs and record the result.

The most effective is when we use this method for our patient to show them how big difference about Hi-End PALs , Premium PALs , Budget PALs and Junk PALs and including to show them how bad of super short corridor PALs. This method help us to sell Hi-End PALs and Premium PALs 10 times more.

The champion in our club can sell Rodenstock Impression ILT XS 1.6/42 over 100 pairs in 3 months ( only one shop ) and we leave the junk PALs and the budget PALs to our competition.

The cheapest PALs in our club now is Varilux Comfort and the most expensive is Varilux Ipseo , but we don't like Varilux Ipseo because the far vision much weaker than Impression ILT XS and the price is more than double price of ILT XS and I think , the price of Varilux Ipseo is not reasonable like ILT XS.

[QDO1]

Im going to say this again.. dont mess with ophthalmic drugs. they have a purpose, and trialing progressives is NOT one of them!!!!!

[hardbox_happy]

Hi , Cenet baby

Please inform me about your e-mail address and I will send the picture of Trial Frame Adjustable.

This sunday we will have basic training course of PALs and I will take some picture when we demonstated Trial PALs on Trial Frame Adjustable in our class and will send the picture to you via e-mail. ( Please inform me about your space in your e-mail in MB )

We need only 3 space for right and 3 space for left on Trial Frame, 1 for SPH. , 1 for CYL. and 1 for Trial PALs , and we test Trial PALs one by one and do it seven time for 7 Trial PALs and record the result.

The most effective is when we use this method for our patient to show them how big difference about Hi-End PALs , Premium PALs , Budget PALs and Junk PALs and including to show them how bad of super short corridor PALs. This method help us to sell Hi-End PALs and Premium PALs 10 times more.

The champion in our club can sell Rodenstock Impression ILT XS 1.6/42 over 100 pairs in 3 months ( only one shop ) and we leave the junk PALs and the budget PALs to our competition.

The cheapest PALs in our club now is Varilux Comfort and the most expensive is Varilux Ipseo , but we don't like Varilux Ipseo because the far vision much weaker than Impression ILT XS and the price is more than double price of ILT XS and I think , the price of Varilux Ipseo is not reasonable like ILT XS.

Bobie,

can you send me the trial lens and trial frame for PALs design information and picture ?

[Bobie]

Hi , hardbox_happy
Please inform me about your e-mail address and the size of your space to send e-mail to you.

[fjpod]

Geeze Louise! :hammer:

[hardbox_happy]

Hi , hardbox_happy
Please inform me about your e-mail address and the size of your space to send e-mail to you.

my email is : tikt@streamyx.com and the space around 1 MB

[hardbox_happy]

Please inform me about your e-mail address and the size of your space to send e-mail to you.

i got try to go ur website but all thai language i cant understand, how can i join your club?

[Bobie]

We will set up the international forums on May 2006 and you can join our club on May , but if you are interesting to discuss for Advance PALs then , I can send some picture and some document in English , please inform me that the topic you would like to get the document.

[hardbox_happy]

We will set up the international forums on May 2006 and you can join our club on May , but if you are interesting to discuss for Advance PALs then , I can send some picture and some document in English , please inform me that the topic you would like to get the document.

i need the topic more about trial PALs in trial frame, how bout we want to cut the PALs in trial lens?, how much fitting height , we want to cut in the Trial Lens with PALs? send me more other PALs document, i hav just receive your email with the Rodenstock ILT only

[QDO1]

As this thread mentions the ILT many times I might add there is no point in adding the ILT to a trial set - as it is an individualised design, that varies form one order to another


with regards to trial set ups - why not get the Essilor progressive demonstrator set, and re-glaze the samples with what ever you want

[Bobie]

Hi, hardbox_happy
We cut Trial PALs at fitting height 21 mm.
and will sent more picture to you in this week.

Hi,QD1
The ILT XS is the most advantage Trial PALs over all others even Varilux Ipseo and Physio , because we can set up the individaul parameter exactly to the Trial Frame and I can say like I can proof that the Trial Rodenstock Impression ILT XS on Trial Frame is total better than every PALs eyeglasses in the world for today.

The Varilux demonstartor set is so yesterday now , because their vision is very poor if compare with ILT XS.

In our test , most of ILT XS wearer don't like Panamic and many of them can not use Varilux Panamic.

But all Panamic wearer are very happy when they switch from Panamic to ILT XS , because they can feel much better in fews seconds and even for long term ( 9 months ) in our test , and they they would like to pay 35% more for ILT XS 1.6/42. ( The price of ILT XS 1.6/42 and Panamic Airwear ABBE 32 are about the same in Thailand )

The ILT XS 1.6/42 is the world best PALs ABBE42 for Rimless Frame and offer much better vision to drive a car at night if compare with Varilux Ipseo.

The price of Varilux Ipseo in Thailand have been drop 20% now , but the price of ILT XS 1.6/42 will be add 10% on April 2006.

The funny things is in Thailand , Varilux Ipseo and Varilux Panamic Airwear not have any adaptation guarantee , but all of Rodenstock PALs have 90 days full satisfaction guaranteed that , the customer just say " I don't like " to claim for new PALs or money refund.

[QDO1]

Hi,QD1
The ILT XS is the most advantage Trial PALs over all others even Varilux Ipseo and Physio , because we can set up the individaul parameter exactly to the Trial Frame and I can say like I can proof that the Trial Rodenstock Impression ILT XS on Trial Frame is total better than every PALs eyeglasses in the world for today.

The ILT sepcifies patient convergance, and the order the lenses in the test were in in the trial frame... the reason you can not demmonstrate this lens properly is that it isn not only individualised to the frame.. it is individualised to the patients RX and ADD too

The Varilux demonstartor set is so yesterday now , because their vision is very poor if compare with ILT XS.

You miss-understood me... I reglazed the lenses in my demonstrator with different progressives: this is easy as they are only mounted with a SUPRA cord. I brought an old demonstrator and re-used the inserts with my new set. I can now demmonstrate a a few good progressives, short and long corridor and cheaper ones to patients, either stand alone, or over spectacles

[Bobie]

Thank you for your kindly advice , QD1.

1. We set up the inset of ILT XS at 2.5 mm , CVD 15mm , PTA 5.0 degree , FFA -1.0 degree , these parameter have been mearsured on Trial Frame Adjustable Bicoh 547.

2. We find out the near point down gaze convergence P.D. for ecah Rx by our special technic and we used near point down gaze convergence P.D. + 5.0mm to set up the P.D. of Trial ILT XS.

3. The real short corridor PALs that have 85% of Addition at 11.1 mm or shorter is very poor vision for near and our patient never like it. ( Example like Kodak Concise , Hoyalux Summit CD , Varilux Ellipse )

4. The most successful PALs for small frame have 85% of Addition at 13 mm like ILT XS , Varilux Panamic , Varilux Comfort , Tokai 13 , Excelite Freedom 13 , but ILT XS is outstanding for all performance.

5. After we have been demonstrated Trial PALs , we will demonstrated Trial Computer glasses or super reading like Rodenstock Nexyma 40 & 80A-80B , Hoyalux TACT , Essilor InterView and Hoya Addpower. ( 40% of our patient they would like to order 1 PALs and 1 Computer glasses , 20% of them would like to order 1 PALs for outdoor / general use , 1 Computer glasses for working and 1 super reading glasses for used at home ) , because PALs is not comfortable to read more than 1 hour or used computer for more than 40 minutes.

6. We looking for Nano Technology PALs that may be can give double performance of ILT XS at intermediate and near. ( The far vision of ILT XS is near same like single vision already. )

[QDO1]

We looking for Nano Technology PALs that may be can give double performance of ILT XS at intermediate and near.

Double performance - what are you measuring? you make it sound like the power output of a racing car engine

[Bobie]

To measuring the performance of PALs , please follow at below ;

1. Adaptation : Instant Adaptation , Fast Adaptation , Slow Adaptation , Difficult to Adaptation and Can not Adaptation. Some PALs can adaptation faster than another PALs more than 3 time faster ( same Patient , same corridor length , same Rx , same frame and same parameter. Example like the ILT XS need adaptation time only 50% of Varilux Panamic and we measuring by ask the wearer case by case ).

2. Instant Focus System : When changing focus from far to near to intermediate , some PALs can focus less than 0.4 seconds , some can not and many of PALs take time to focus for fews seconds.

3. Dynamic Vision : When moving the head very fast for many kind of sports or some activities , some PALs have swimming effects more than some PALs about 2 or 3 times.

4. Comfortable of Vision : Some PALs are double or triple comfortable than others PALs for all day long.

5. Quality of Vision : Some PALs are double better quality of vision when drive a car at night , even when look forward.

6. Vision Field : Some PALs are double wider in vision field. ( The vision field is not the priority of PALs , but are comfortble of vision and instant sharp vision )

7. Repeat , we never believe in any information from the PALs company , because they lies to us for many years. We believe in our patient and we always listen to them.

7.1 We have second check for every wearer for every new PALs within 2 weeks and we find out in the detail about how they feel with each PALs.

7.2 We have third check for after 3 months to find out that , our patient like this PALs or not , if not they can upgrade for better PALs and pay only the differnce of the price ( normally they come to visit us for cleaning and adjust the frame and we offer them some souvenir to make them happy.)

7.3 We have forth check after 9 months and we find out the final conclusion of many model of PALs ( some PALs still not comfortable even when used for 9 months , all of them is short corridor that have 85% of addition at 11.1mm or shorter , this why we don't like real short corridor PALs and we stop to recommended real short corridor PALs since 2004 and leave the real short corridor PALs market to our competition. ( When the patient who buy real short corridor PALs from our competition come to visit our store , we will demonstrated Varilux Panamic , ILT XS , Excelite Freedom 13 , Excelite Discovery Xtra 13 with the computer screen and 95% of them would like to switch to semi short corridor and 100% of them are very happy even at 16 mm fitting height , because semi-short corridor have much better near vision when read newspaper even at 16 mm fitting height.

In our test and our study from patient , we find out that , in high myope the Varilux Ipseo and Varilux Panamic Stylis 1.67 are quite poor quality of vision at far in the night time and we report and ask Essilor in Thailand , but they never listem to us , they just confirm that their lenses is the good for all Rx and not have any guaranteed , then we have to spend our money to replace with ILT XS 1.6/42 that our patient says the same word like , " Totally better "

In the end , my comments is " do not do any business with PALs company who always say , my PALs is the best , but never guaranteed their PALs ". I hope The Essilor PALs in USA and Europe not like in Thailand , because in Thailand , The lab of Varilux is belong to Thailand company , not Essilor. We hope it will be ten time better when we have Essilor Thailand.

[QDO1]

can you publish your research in English? Im struggliing with your website, sounds a facinating approach

[Bobie]

We have plan to open international section in www.apcthai.com or may be we going to open new international website , and we can not name our work like the research , but can name only clinical study.

Thank you for your attention and we look forward to join each others for worldwide Advance Progressive Addition Lenses Club.

Now , we study about contour plot of many PALs in many Rx and will have some conclusion on MAY 2006 ,this work is not easy , because we have to send the Rx PALs that our member order from many lab to plot , and I am sure that the PALs company don't like it , because they can not lies to us anymore.

On this 18 FEB 2006 , we will testing Rodenstock ImpressionIST machine that cost about 10,000.-EURO , and will be have some report in the end of FEB 2006.

If you are interesting about some information that conflict with the information from PALs company , then I can send some picture and some document to you in this MAY.

Remember that , we listen to every comments and would like to co-opporate with all O.D. , M.D. and Optiker around the world to find out the best way to fit the best PALs for every presbyopes , even for poor people , even for free of charge , because we believe that , every people have the right to see the beautiful world with the best vision at all distance , no matter how old? , no matter how much money they have?

I am 40 years old now , and I would like to finished my dream before I am 50 , then I have plan to set up Advance Progressive Addition Lenses Club in Asian on 2007 and in Asia on 2008 , in Europe 2009 , in Canada 2010.

In USA I am not sure , because I think USA is the most difficult market in the world to set up the Hi-End PALs Specialist Clinic. I can say like in China , one of Clinic can sell 1,000 pairs of Hi-End PALs much more easy to sell 100 pairs of Hi-End PALs in USA.

:cheers:

[Bobie]

I will show , how to set up trial PALs in Trial Frame at www.acpinter.com on 14th FEB 2006.

See you!

[Bobie]

Dear QD1 ,

I would like to inform you that ,

The Cycloplegic have been done by our Professional Opthomologist and must be proof by our Professional Opthomologist before.

In Thailand , many of company who are wholesaler of PALs , they think , the Cyloplegic will make everybody going to blind , I hope you know , that not true.

I will explain at www.apcinter.com in English and please remember that , in Thailand we still have many stupid people , but we also have many professional like in Europe , USA and Canada.

May be , you can look in my eye to find out something stupid , when you come to visit Thailand.

Thank you for your concern.