Where progressives are contra-indicated

[Graduate]

I find more than 50% previous single vision or segmented bifocal wearer reject their new progressive lenses.

Any solution to keep them wearing on

[Chris Ryser]

Does educate, translate, sell, sell, sell convince the patient he needs the most expensive product? Convice the patient he won't really mind that narrow distorted field of vision? He doesn't really need to see those ultra fine details?
Chip

Thanks Chip,

At least I get some support in logical reasoning in this matter, you were right in your earlier posting.................................

Looks like selling is the most important things these days.

[Bev Heishman]

We have a 95% success rate. Matching the right progressive to patient needs helps. Educate your patient and this may help.

[fvc2020]

My doc did try to lower it or even get me out of it. I just didn't like it.

I know I am unusual, but hey why not be different;)
christina

[spec_chick]

I find more than 50% previous single vision or segmented bifocal wearer reject their new progressive lenses.

Any solution to keep them wearing on

Wow that seems like a really high non-adapt percentage...what are you fitting? And what is the number one complaint of your particular non-adapts? Just curious...

Jess

[Graduate]

Wow that seems like a really high non-adapt percentage...what are you fitting? And what is the number one complaint of your particular non-adapts? Just curious...

Jess

I do not know the brands, it is our opticians who selects from varieties.
Dr. re-orders refracting patients.
Main complain is mid-near range vision.Very few complain of distance vision.

[chip anderson]

I have seen success rate claims in the past. In contact lenses, to some this means the bill was paid. To some this means the patient wore the lenses in comfort without injury for decades. To still others, I means they didn't come back and bother them anymore (whether problems were present or not.)

To others it means they didn't return them before my monthly commission check.

How do you measure success?

Chip

[Jedi]

I have seen success rate claims in the past. In contact lenses, to some this means the bill was paid. To some this means the patient wore the lenses in comfort without injury for decades. To still others, I means they didn't come back and bother them anymore (whether problems were present or not.)

To others it means they didn't return them before my monthly commission check.

How do you measure success?

Chip

A good way to measure success is by the response you get doing follow-up calls. If they love them, they will let you know; if they hate them, they then have an opportunity to say so and you have an opportunity to fix it.

[Jedi]

I do not know the brands, it is our opticians who selects from varieties.
Dr. re-orders refracting patients.
Main complain is mid-near range vision.Very few complain of distance vision.

A little off topic, but I discussed the issue of non-adapts with our Essilor lab rep and a big chunk of them come from the Doctor over plussing (is that even a word?) the add power. Might be something to look into.

[Happylady]

I am 49 and have worn progressives since I was 43. I also wear mono vision contacts. I will on rare occasions wear two distance contacts(for plays, fireworks) and then I have to wear reading glasses. I dislike them. Even though they are narrow and I can look over them, they bug me. My progressives give me much more natural vision.

I also think it is a good idea to start people in progressives when they have a small add like a +1.00 or +1.25. They are much easier to adjust to with a low add, I barely noticed I had them on when I started.

I started my husband on progressives when he was in his early 40's and he had never worn glasses before. He has worn readers when he forgot his progressives at home, and he also didn't prefer them.

[Lynne]

Wow, a 1.50 Add @ 35. Do you have convergence insufficiency or something? Not that a 1.50 Add is impossible or useful at that age, but isn't Donders around a 1.50 add for like between 52 - 57 year old emmetropes and myopes?

Well, maybe not, I'm 58, and have a 2.50 add!! Have had Truevision, XL, VIP, VLC, Percepta, Solamax, and now am in SolaOne, which I LOVE!! I have 1.25 OTC's for computer games at home (I get hi-jacked by those things, and stay on far too long!!), but much prefer PAL's for every day comfort, no annoying jump when looking far! Tried FT28 once for a sunglass - hated it! That jump again! I'm all for PAL's from the very first time help is needed with reading....:)

[Judy Canty]

What makes you think that I haven't worn single vision lenses? I tried a pair for when I'm edging. They were a pain in the a$$. The fact remains that I am perfectly satisfied with my multiple styles of progressive lenses.

Why were they a pain? They just were, all right? I've been wearing progressives for years with no problems.

If I were in this profession for the money, I'd have quit 32 years ago. Jeeze Chip, are you still selling glass ultex b's as well? Times change. Visual requirements change. Progressive lens technology changes. I like them and so do the vast majority of my customers and our success rate is al least as high as Bev's. Believe me, at the prices we charge, if our customers were unhappy, we'd know it faster than they can dial American Express.

[Chris Ryser]

We have a 95% success rate. Matching the right progressive to patient needs helps. Educate your patient and this may help.

We know that many of you only want to sing the glory to progressives ...................while ignoring the theme of this present thread which is actually about when nto to use them. There are plenty reasons not to use something, like eating sugar when being a diabetic and so forth.

Therefore this thread at least in my understanding is to EDUCATE opticians when NOT to use that type of lens. If you knew all that, you would have a 100% success rate.

[Graduate]

We have a 95% success rate. Matching the right progressive to patient needs helps. Educate your patient and this may help.

Bev-first excuse for lack of my knowledge on progressive lenses.

Are'nt all brands of progressive lenses generically same? It is like naming penecillin as ampicillin,but same thing.

Those few who rejected progressives, I find them reject again even in different brand.They would accept the inconvenience of moving with two pair.

I had seen good acceptance rate in early prebyope or first time wearer though.

[Graduate]

We know that many of you only want to sing the glory to progressives ...................while ignoring the theme of this present thread which is actually about when nto to use them. There are plenty reasons not to use something, like eating sugar when being a diabetic and so forth.

Therefore this thread at least in my understanding is to EDUCATE opticians when NOT to use that type of lens. If you knew all that, you would have a 100% success rate.

Chris I agree.

Other thing,I feel progressives are vigoursly sold despite visual discomfort complain from customer.Our opticians keeps on prescribing them

[QDO1]

Bev-first excuse for lack of my knowledge on progressive lenses.

Are'nt all brands of progressive lenses generically same? It is like naming penecillin as ampicillin,but same thing.

Those few who rejected progressives, I find them reject again even in different brand.They would accept the inconvenience of moving with two pair.

I had seen good acceptance rate in early prebyope or first time wearer though.

yes in the same way that all vehicals are the same - let me see, we have boats, formula one cars, bicycles, trucks and horses - they will all get you from A-B

[Bev Heishman]

Bev-first excuse for lack of my knowledge on progressive lenses.

Are'nt all brands of progressive lenses generically same? It is like naming penecillin as ampicillin,but same thing.

Those few who rejected progressives, I find them reject again even in different brand.They would accept the inconvenience of moving with two pair.

I had seen good acceptance rate in early prebyope or first time wearer though.

Learn about designs. They are not all the same. Ask the manufacturer's for their "White Paper's". Believe me...it does not happen overnight. A good place to start is at the Optiboard File Directory. Steve Machol has available Progressive Addition Lenses, History, Design & Wearer Satisfaction by David Pope. After that look at Darryl Meister's link on Practical Aspects of lens Design.

Bev Heishman, ABOM

[Graduate]

Learn about designs. They are not all the same. Ask the manufacturer's for their "White Paper's". Believe me...it does not happen overnight. A good place to start is at the Optiboard File Directory. Steve Machol has available Progressive Addition Lenses, History, Design & Wearer Satisfaction by David Pope. After that look at Darryl Meister's link on Practical Aspects of lens Design.

Bev Heishman, ABOM

Thanks Bev for guiding.I will read & learn more about progressive lenses.:cheers:

[sharonseyes]

Having been in the Business for 20 + years. I've seen progressives used incorrectly quite often. With todays smaller frames our patients will go to someone else if we don't dispense. But educating the patient on what exactly they will get with the progressive is important. You can still get the sale, but truthfully explain to the patient the limits he or she will experience using them. For the individual with specific needs in one or two areas of vision. That is were progressives are a great mutipurpose pair of glasses. But a 2nd or 3rd pair may be needed for that extra small print. or for that extra distance area needed. Don't assume that the elderly want lenseswith lines in them. We are the professionals, be thruthful and you will have happpy patients and fewer complaints.

[rbaker]

One of the problems that we have is the lack of objective literature on the subject of progressive lenses. This is closely followed by the inability of most dispensers to understand the subject.

[ilanh]

I spoke to a very self confident optician who felt that people who wear bifocals instead of Progressives are merely content to get from A to B on a bicycle instead of a lexus. He felt that if you provide excellent fitting and training you could provide the "proper tool" for almost anyone to appreciate the value of progressives. This includes bifocal wearers who he routinely puts in PALs. He spends a lot of time ascertaining if they are motivated enough to take on the challenge, fits them very carefully and provides impeccable training and support. At all times a full refund non-adapt guarantee is stressed.

Let's analyze this for a moment:
-I would remove from consideration any discussion of cost, greed, personal motives etc. I know that this optician is genuinely motivated by his superior fitting skills and his passion for progressives. He really believes that bifocal wearers simply do not know what they're missing. Going through life unable to properly see anything at intermediate range is a definite problem. Personally I can't fathom it. If you honestly discuss the challenge and difficulties involved you may find that many bifocal wearers are willing to trade in the bicycle.

Perhaps a few analogies may help: My mother refused to use the microwave until I convinced her that it was a no-brainer. After all she had gotten through 60 years of cooking without it; "why do I need it?". My father watched network TV (channel 2-13) for 30 years until I bought him a cable box and a Tivo subscription. Both my parents had to go through a phase of adjustment before they figured out how to use their new toys; they now claim that would commit suicide if these were removed. Don't you think it's patronizing to tell older people, "you're happy with what you have so let's not rock the boat and give you any better options."

[QDO1]

I spoke to a very self confident optician who felt that people who wear bifocals instead of Progressives are merely content to get from A to B on a bicycle instead of a lexus. He felt that if you provide excellent fitting and training you could provide the "proper tool" for almost anyone to appreciate the value of progressives. This includes bifocal wearers who he routinely puts in PALs. He spends a lot of time ascertaining if they are motivated enough to take on the challenge, fits them very carefully and provides impeccable training and support. At all times a full refund non-adapt guarantee is stressed.

Let's analyze this for a moment:
-I would remove from consideration any discussion of cost, greed, personal motives etc. I know that this optician is genuinely motivated by his superior fitting skills and his passion for progressives. He really believes that bifocal wearers simply do not know what they're missing. Going through life unable to properly see anything at intermediate range is a definite problem. Personally I can't fathom it. If you honestly discuss the challenge and difficulties involved you may find that many bifocal wearers are willing to trade in the bicycle.

Perhaps a few analogies may help: My mother refused to use the microwave until I convinced her that it was a no-brainer. After all she had gotten through 60 years of cooking without it; "why do I need it?". My father watched network TV (channel 2-13) for 30 years until I bought him a cable box and a Tivo subscription. Both my parents had to go through a phase of adjustment before they figured out how to use their new toys; they now claim that would commit suicide if these were removed. Don't you think it's patronizing to tell older people, "you're happy with what you have so let's not rock the boat and give you any better options."

All options for presbyopes are comprimises, each option has a different comprimise. There are more options for a presbyope than Bifocals and Progressives. A person with a neck mobility issue, for example, might not want a multifocal. A 90 year old who has worn bifocals for ages, will struggle to change to a progressive. The skill of a dispenser, is to guide the patient through the comprimises, and find the best soloution

This week I have dispensed the foloowing comprimises: Progressive, Near only, Intermediate only, Occupational PPL, Specialist Individualised Near lens, trifocal, bifocal, a long corridor progressive with a weighting on DV and Intermediate. Why so many different types of dispense? because I have dispensed a housewife, paraplegic, draughtsman, teacher, computer programmer, jeweler, golfer.. and many more They all have different needs, and all have different visual needs

[chip anderson]

Why do the pro~progressive only posters totally ignore the existance of trifocals? Trifocal wearers see better at intermediate than progressive wearers.


Chip

[Graduate]

Why do the pro~progressive only posters totally ignore the existance of trifocals? Trifocal wearers see better at intermediate than progressive wearers.


Chip

Is it possible to invent wonderful trifocal lenses without lines?:idea:

[Chris Ryser]

Is it possible to invent wonderful trifocal lenses without lines?

Not really as you would have to polish out the separation line...............which would again would create distortion like you have on progressives.............even worse as it would be right in line of vision.

Just sell the ones that want to hide their age. look as if they dont wear bifocals the progressives as usual...................but advuse them if they do they will exchange perfect good vision for looks, and reduced quality of vision, for more money.