Warranty on Insurance frames!?

[LENNY]

There is a tread about a customer that bought 3P mount frame from a VSP provider and was not given frame waranty because of that.
What is your opinion on warranty when you have to give a free or heavy discounted frame to the patient?
Mine is: If the insurance company is willing to pay me for my time and expenses (not considering frame replacement price) I will gladly do it.
The only one that I know who will actuarly pay for it is Davis vision (only for their frames})
Soo this is the only waranty I give to my patients. When they question it I tell them to call their insurance company and ask them if they would Pay me for a new frame because the old one is broken!

What do you think?

[chip anderson]

You don't really want to know what most Optiboarders think of this.

[For-Life]

true

now remember, in the case of that poster it was the optician who broke the frame.

[Jubilee]

What we have implemented is a service charge.

We will replace any frame or lenses under their manufacturer's or lab's warranty, for a $10 service charge.

So far no patient has complained about this charge, but are really happy at being able to have their frame replaced. The service aspect of it really helps set us apart from some of our competition that charges up to half of retail.

Cassandra

Or you sell a warranty that you define the criteria for and the amount you think is worthwhile.

[Happylady]

We warranty our frames for one year unless there is very obvious abuse. A few frames like the Marchon airlocks we warrant for two years. We add $7.00 to the price of all of our frames and then round up to the nearest $5.00 to cover shipping and our time.

If you do VSP you can get free Altair frames for your board that you only pay for when you sell one and replace it. It is a great deal and they have lots a nice styles. Altair will take back anything under warranty.

We have a value collection where we give a frame for free when they buy the lenses.These are mostly inexpensive frames but we will also put in discontinued frames. The discontinued frames have no warranty and the patient is told that. The other frames we replace in the first year for $15.00. People seem happy with that.

[shellrob]

We offer a one year warranty on all of our frames(defects only of course) no matter if it's an insurance patient or not. You cannot discriminate based on that reason. If you do....it's bad business and in some cases, your breaking your contract with the insurance company. Now, if you're carrying frames without warranties from the manufacturer...then I guess that's another story but if you offer a warranty to self-pay patients on those frames..you should offer the warranty to the insurance patients as well.

[drk]

I'm with shellrob: gotta treat the insurance people like everyone else or you'll be SORRY.

Jubilee, I'm curious: how do you ledger the $10? As a sale? Do you deposit it as an offset to cost of goods sold? I know this is a stupid question. It's really an offset of a cost of goods, and not a "sale" per se. I guess it could be considered a tax-free professional service, like a frame repair? Ask your accountant and get back to me. Seriously, though, how do you ledger that?

[shellrob]

Yea, I'm surious as to DRK's question as well. If my patient brings in a frame purchased from me and it's an obvious manufacturers defect, I cannot see charging the patient ANYTHING to replace it. Why should they pay for something that's out of their control?

[ziggy]

The Ohio bunch is in full agreement. If I can call it a defect I do. Just take care of the patient.

[EyeManFla]

The Ohio bunch is in full agreement. If I can call it a defect I do. Just take care of the patient.

Enough said!

[Jubilee]

We count it in the same category as frame repairs and other non - exam services.

Now do you guys only enforced the warranty if it is a true defect, or do you let them switch it out if it was due to fire/accident/abuse? We will replace as long as they have the parts.

Also the only frames we don't warranty are the discontinued. Everything else we do, including the Medicaid frames.

The only reason why we recently started this was due to the increased costs we are receiving for shipping. The ten dollars barely covers the costs involved in ordering a new frame, and shipping it and eventually the old one for credit.

Since we have a realitively low mark up.. (most of our competitors have their frames and lenses $30-$50 more than we do) it was eating into our profitability. The doctor chose to implement the cost to avoid raising our frame and/or lens pricing across the board.

Cassandra

[shellrob]

I still believe that if a frame is under warranty, the patient shouldn't be charged ANYTHING. You should be covering the cost of shipping somewhere else, not passing that charge on to the patient. Of course, this is my belief.

[Jubilee]

So instead should we raise our prices $10 across the board?

That way everyone has to pay more to cover the costs? The doctor I work for prefers to have the people who use the program pay, rather than making eveyone who doesn't pay more.

He is very concerned about pricing, and has had very few prices increases in the past 20 yrs. He just wants to make enough to have a decent life, see the same patients every year, and have his three days off a week to spend with his family. He does not want to charge his entire patient base more money for those few who need to use the warranty.

Is it really better to charge every patient $10 more a frame to cover our costs for warranty work, then to charge what we do now and have them pay a service fee? I know it would be better for the bottom line, but is it really better from a patient service/satisfaction aspect?

Cassandra

Cassandra

[shellrob]

Yes, I do believe it's better to charge 10.00 more initially than to charge a patient 10.00 to replace a frame that should be covered at no charge under the manufacturers warranty.

In fact in your last post you said that the patient is being charged for warranty work not shipping which isn't consistent with what you said in your initial post that the reason for the charge is to cover shipping costs. All "hidden" costs such a shipping and such should already be factored into your lens and frame pricing. What your doing is penalizing the people needed to use the warranty by charging them, and that is not good patient/satisfaction.

[Jubilee]

Ok.. I admit I have been writing on this topic in 5 minutes free time here and there..

We charge the $10 to cover shipping and our time in handling warranty work. We instituted this charge due to the recent increases we are seeing in shipping costs. When it is costing us $5 or more to get the frame in, and then to have to ship it back..we really aren't making any money in this.

Are we penalizing people when we replace for any reason? None of the patients I have worked with and talked about this issue with have thought that a $10 across the board price increase was better. Nor would they like for us to go to a strictly defect policy either.

Are your patients happy when you tell them no to replacing a frame that was broke through either an accident or abuse? What do you tell them? Sorry Jimmy got smacked in the face with a ball. But since they were hit with a ball then stepped on, that clearly isn't a defect, and you must pay for a whole new frame.

In some cases, we won't even get money if we were to put it directly on the frame price due to the insurance companies involved. If that frame went from $120 to $130 it is still covered by many VSP plans, but since wholesale is the same we won't see a dime more from it. How is that covering our additional expenses?

Medicaid still won't pay more than $20 for a frame.. should we be forcing those patients to be paying us $10 for any frame we carry?

The point is we came up with this plan to keep from losing money, but still being able to offer our patients the lowest prices. It isn't a penalty. They are more than welcome to shop at LensCrafters and pay half of current retail price instead.

Cassandra