A.B.O or license ? what it worth$$

[bser]

Please tell me what's the A.B.O ONLY worth .Then add a state license,what is it worth and how long does it take ?? Also whats the diffence each state has and what states tranfers?? And are all state licenses the same test? And last, knowledge of the lab.Able to start & finish a job including A.R. IS that worth a dime $$$$??

:finger:

[Ed_Optician]

It all dpends onthe state. In New Jersey, an ABO is meaningless as the State does not recognize anything other than its own exam/practical. Other states regard the ABO as the written exam needed to become licensed as in New York among others.
I would pay someone with an ABO more than an unlicensed uncertified person. I would also pay a fully licensed optician more than that as they may work under their own license.
When I worked as area training manager for Vista Optical, it was my aim to have every person in every store properly licensed in the state in which they worked. An unlicensed newly hired person had 3 months to demonstrate basic competence in fitting and dispensing. If they displayed suitable aptitude, they were placed into an ABO prep class. They were given two ABO exam cycles to pass the ABO. After that state licensure was next.
It was my plan and intent to develop this to the point of all opticians ABO/NCLE certified+ state license and all store managers minimum of ABOAC/NCLE Unfortunately that never happened
Ed

[Alvaro Cordova]

The ABo is not required in Jersey, like Ed said, but I got it anyway since the CE credits for the license transfer over to the ABO too. It adds initials to a name. In NJ, a license is worth quite a bit. The test is brutal though.

[Jason Carruthers]

Initials after your name aren't worth squat in the working world, they're just for show. A licensed professional is paid according to supply and demand. No more, no less. The only way to get paid more is to bring dollars directly to a company. (ie, salesperson, rainmaker or business developer).

[Alvaro Cordova]

Well in NJ, opticians are making between 50-65k. Obviously one has to produce, but even the lowliest gets a decent pay. Initials do mean something. If someone in an unlicensed State takes the initiative to be better informed and qualified they should command a higher price because they should have (at least in theory), more knowledge and therfore are not a run of the mill "optician." They can reduce costs by reducing remakes. Do you not think this is valuable?

[rbaker]

Just my humble opinion but if I were hiring an optician today:

ABO and State License – not worth the paper their printed on. It wouldn’t even get you an interview.


Graduation from a first rate two year opticianry program – absolutely mandatory.

I seek excellence in academic knowledge and the proven dedication to the craft that only a formal educational program can provide.

[Alvaro Cordova]

There might actually be a disconnect on my part. In Jersey, licensure means you have been educated at a 2 year college. There are 2 routes to licensure. There is a 3-year apprenticeship in which after you've completed your classes (the algebras, english, psychology business etc... aren't required, but you have to take the Ophthalmic courses -2 which are Contacts II and Internship) you wait a year and then take the test and it isn't the ABO, which I thought was really easy. The other route is the degree route in which you take all of the Ophthalmic courses and the humanities and sciences associated with an applied science degree and upon graduation one must be apprenticed until the exam. Either way means schooling. The test in Joysey is really difficult. It's four parts.

1)Shop - you must cut either a round seg or a job with cylinder and compound prism. NJ standards only allow 3 degrees on a 0.25 cyl.
2)Neutralization - you must duplicate a prescription off a pair of multifocals according to NJ standards
3)Written - 200 questions all things optics and anatomy.
4)Dispensing portion - you must adjust a pair of glasses properly on someone.

So I would imagine a NJ license is a little different than other states. The only test more difficult was the old NY State test, which they did away with. So when you say a license is not worth anything I'm kinda scratchin' my head. What requirements do you have to meet in your State? I just took the ABO & NCLE in case I move. I plan on taking the NCLE-AC and eventually getting the ABOM. I personally do not believe I'm wasting my time.

[OPTIDONN]

Initials after your name aren't worth squat in the working world, they're just for show. A licensed professional is paid according to supply and demand. No more, no less. The only way to get paid more is to bring dollars directly to a company. (ie, salesperson, rainmaker or business developer).

Right but the person must know what they are selling and dispensing. They may bring in the bucks but if the patient is not given the proper information there will be alot of those people returning the merchandise. And there are positions available for those few who have an uncanny knowledge of the technical aspects of the field i.e. Darryl Meister and Pete Hanlin for example. But those jobs are few and far between.

[VegasEyes]

Al - Keep on going. No such thing as too much education! You have the drive that is lacking in our industry. Opticians I have met and spoken to lately (the last four days!) are either burnt out and need to move on or are thirsting for more knowledge. For those of you like Al that are taking the time and making the investment in your future and the future of our industry I THANK YOU. Because over the last four days (Vision Expo West) I've run across more than a few not so happy opticians. As I always tell my fellow associates/employees, "When you stop having FUN it's time to go." A licensed optician in Nevada is hard to find. Our exam here is pretty difficult and to tranfer a license from another state is almost impossible. ABO/NCLE are both required to get licensed. But that paper hanging in the dusty frame on the wall is worth it's weight in gold. Most operations here will pay a small fortune to any optician that will come to work with a positive attitude and can take accurate seg heights. Seems like we find either one or the other but never BOTH. :bbg: I am a graduate of Interboro Institute in NYC and if I knew then what I know now about how that 2 year program would change my life I would have paid DOUBLE. AAS degree $9,200, Vegas salary $75,000 yr., great career ..... Priceless.

[Jason Carruthers]

They can reduce costs by reducing remakes. Do you not think this is valuable?

Yes it is. But, most companies don't rely on the individual to control costs. Rather, they rely on carefully designed systems of control. The optician is a part in the system, just like the building and the advertising are parts. Companies want to keep all costs to a minimum, including opticians salaries.

Yes there is a range of pay for opticians. But it is a very narrow range and your salary is largely determined by supply and demand, not by your knowledge or the number of letters after your name. Still, opticians should seek knowledge for themselves, not for higher pay.

If opticians were paid what they are really worth then you would see some getting paid less than minimum wage and some would make a million dollars a year.

[For-Life]

Initials after your name aren't worth squat in the working world, they're just for show. A licensed professional is paid according to supply and demand. No more, no less. The only way to get paid more is to bring dollars directly to a company. (ie, salesperson, rainmaker or business developer).

But what happens when the letters are in demand and the there is a low supply of those letters.

Hakim Optical is opening a store in my city and is offering over $55,000 to the opticians in the city. He has been quoted to even offer $100,000 (that is based on commission), because he cannot get anyone to work for him. But he is demanding the RO, not just sales.

[Alvaro Cordova]

Yes it is. But, most companies don't rely on the individual to control costs. Rather, they rely on carefully designed systems of control. The optician is a part in the system, just like the building and the advertising are parts. Companies want to keep all costs to a minimum, including opticians salaries.

Yes there is a range of pay for opticians. But it is a very narrow range and your salary is largely determined by supply and demand, not by your knowledge or the number of letters after your name. Still, opticians should seek knowledge for themselves, not for higher pay.

If opticians were paid what they are really worth then you would see some getting paid less than minimum wage and some would make a million dollars a year.

You're right that some companies do not expect opticians to have a cost controlling aspect to them, but many privately owned places do. In many cases 10-20 jobs are sold each week and they are expected to be correctly measured and made. The McDonalds mentality fostered at larger corporations creates a lot of waste despite corporate desire to cut costs. I also believe many corporations think 2 dimensionally. Just about everything is determined by supply and demand, I think this point is obvious, but some people are actually worth their weight in gold. In other words, These opticians do command a higher wage. The supply and demand differs too, especially if you consider credentials and not just humans to fill a position. Value is always something percieved.

[Jason Carruthers]

But what happens when the letters are in demand and the there is a low supply of those letters.

Exactly! That is when opticians get paid more.

Hakim Optical is opening a store in my city and is offering over $55,000 to the opticians in the city. He has been quoted to even offer $100,000 (that is based on commission), because he cannot get anyone to work for him. But he is demanding the RO, not just sales.

Hakim is not demanding the RO. The law is demanding it. I know Karim Hakim. If the law allowed him to operate without licensed opticians, I bet he would. As most large companies would.

the Dude: I agree some people are worth their weight in gold. Unfortunately, the market will only pay these people a very small premium over the average worker.

[ziggy]

EDUCATION! any and all!! Get your ABO/NCLE, state licen.,college degree, take all of the CE courses you can get, and never stop reading. If you look in the industry, all of the TOP(pay) people have a ton of experiance and EDUCATION. Dont only concern your self with what your state requires, you may not always live in your state. Be sure and get a degree. good luck!!

[Alvaro Cordova]

Al - Keep on going. No such thing as too much education! You have the drive that is lacking in our industry. Opticians I have met and spoken to lately (the last four days!) are either burnt out and need to move on or are thirsting for more knowledge. For those of you like Al that are taking the time and making the investment in your future and the future of our industry I THANK YOU. Because over the last four days (Vision Expo West) I've run across more than a few not so happy opticians. As I always tell my fellow associates/employees, "When you stop having FUN it's time to go." A licensed optician in Nevada is hard to find. Our exam here is pretty difficult and to tranfer a license from another state is almost impossible. ABO/NCLE are both required to get licensed. But that paper hanging in the dusty frame on the wall is worth it's weight in gold. Most operations here will pay a small fortune to any optician that will come to work with a positive attitude and can take accurate seg heights. Seems like we find either one or the other but never BOTH. :bbg: I am a graduate of Interboro Institute in NYC and if I knew then what I know now about how that 2 year program would change my life I would have paid DOUBLE. AAS degree $9,200, Vegas salary $75,000 yr., great career ..... Priceless.

Thanks for the encouragement :)

[Dannyboy]

The ABO, NCLE are tests that you need to take in this field.
As far as licensure it is a must if you expect to make it a career commitment. Licensure in Florida should become more of an asset as time passes by. There are simply not enough opticians who are licensed.

The more that the law is enforced by Board of Opticianry and the optical establishments are visited by compliance officers, the more valuable your license will become. The frequency of these visits along with changing the optical establishment permits that do not expired to ones that do should help get rid of places that go without licensed opticians...and at the same time your value increases. If you are employed eventully the corporation is going to have to deal with giving you an increase in salary because if not the competitors will! They are probably already starting to see the light.

The interesting fact here in Florida is that even though ODs and MDs are not required to have their dispensers licensed (loop hole in the law) more and more are hiring LDO's. In top of that major corporations are basically hiring who ever is left. Apprenticeship also takes so long and sometimes is hard to find a sponsor because most corporate opticians have already apprentices under their belt so the pool is even smaller.

Some corporations are starting to flex their policy on the non rehirable opticians (opticians who left them to work for a competitor) because they are starting to see the need of their licenses.

As far as salaries go, the spectrum is from the very low 17 to the high 20s. Also nice thing about Florida is that every one seems to be wearing glasses...so if you are unhappy with your current salary you can still compete with the major players by starting your own optical store. Diversify the products you sell (Do everything that is legallly possible).

One tip on starting your own optical, start slowly by buying the tools and all the necessary equipment over a period of 2-3 years (while you are employed)...so when you decide to take the plunge, the only borrowing you need to take is working capital to sustain you for a couple years until your business takes off.

I vote yes to the examinations as well as the licenses...money as well as personal satisfaction is what Opticianry is all about...education is key...good luck being an Optician can be rewarding!

Dannyboy

[Alvaro Cordova]

What this field needs is more homogenous training across the US. In NJ, opticianry is treated like nursing. People who enter this field must be encouraged to pursue a degree. The education is what will make a difference and hopefully all the states will be licensed and their respective licenses will mean something.

[35oldguy]

Education is the key like I have said many times before. Experience is next.

If you have the education and hand on's experience the test in New Jersey sounds relatively easy! At least for a old guy like me.

There might actually be a disconnect on my part. In Jersey, licensure means you have been educated at a 2 year college. There are 2 routes to licensure. There is a 3-year apprenticeship in which after you've completed your classes (the algebras, english, psychology business etc... aren't required, but you have to take the Ophthalmic courses -2 which are Contacts II and Internship) you wait a year and then take the test and it isn't the ABO, which I thought was really easy. The other route is the degree route in which you take all of the Ophthalmic courses and the humanities and sciences associated with an applied science degree and upon graduation one must be apprenticed until the exam. Either way means schooling. The test in Joysey is really difficult. It's four parts.

1)Shop - you must cut either a round seg or a job with cylinder and compound prism. NJ standards only allow 3 degrees on a 0.25 cyl.
2)Neutralization - you must duplicate a prescription off a pair of multifocals according to NJ standards
3)Written - 200 questions all things optics and anatomy.
4)Dispensing portion - you must adjust a pair of glasses properly on someone.

So I would imagine a NJ license is a little different than other states. The only test more difficult was the old NY State test, which they did away with. So when you say a license is not worth anything I'm kinda scratchin' my head. What requirements do you have to meet in your State? I just took the ABO & NCLE in case I move. I plan on taking the NCLE-AC and eventually getting the ABOM. I personally do not believe I'm wasting my time.

[Alvaro Cordova]

Of course the test isn't all that difficult for someone who is educated and experienced. People do pass the exam. The pass rate is between 40%-60%

[35oldguy]

Yes you are right. Entry level personnel would have to have all their tools in order. It sounds like the whole country would be wise to adopt the test that is given in New Jersey.

People that POSSESS the necessary tools should pass; the ones that don't should learn more in order to become a licensed professional.

What is the percentage necessary to pass?

Of course the test isn't all that difficult for someone who is educated and experienced. People do pass the exam. The pass rate is between 40%-60%

[EyeManFla]

I look at the ABO/NCLE like the SAT or ACT. Its what you need to get going.

Florida requires you to have the them before you can get a license ore become certified.

I understand well that many in the optical industry are pushing for a "Optician Degree". However, 25 years ago I thought an BS in Opticianry was a waste and I still do! Nobody cares that my BA is in coral music education. They just know I'm an optician with 30 years experience and a BA. I am currently working on my Masters and I will then go on to my PhD. But these degrees will be in business.

And education that you can get will put you in good shape. But if you are going to be an optician and you want to get a college degree....become an optometrist or an MD and make real money!

[Alvaro Cordova]

70% is considered passing in Joysey each part. It's pretty much 1/2 pass, 1/2 fail the test

[Alvaro Cordova]

I look at the ABO/NCLE like the SAT or ACT. Its what you need to get going.

Florida requires you to have the them before you can get a license ore become certified.

I understand well that many in the optical industry are pushing for a "Optician Degree". However, 25 years ago I thought an BS in Opticianry was a waste and I still do! Nobody cares that my BA is in coral music education. They just know I'm an optician with 30 years experience and a BA. I am currently working on my Masters and I will then go on to my PhD. But these degrees will be in business.

And education that you can get will put you in good shape. But if you are going to be an optician and you want to get a college degree....become an optometrist or an MD and make real money!

The way I see it, the hierarchy should go something like this

frame stylist 0 years training
lab tech 1 year of college
optician 2 years of college
super optician ?? 4 years of college - can assist surgeons, dispense refract and fit contacts - extensively trained in optics!!!!
Optometrists 8 years of college/schooling
Ophthalmologist 10 years of college/ schooling and assotred residencies

[Bev Heishman]

Yes it is. But, most companies don't rely on the individual to control costs. Rather, they rely on carefully designed systems of control. The optician is a part in the system, just like the building and the advertising are parts. Companies want to keep all costs to a minimum, including opticians salaries.

Yes there is a range of pay for opticians. But it is a very narrow range and your salary is largely determined by supply and demand, not by your knowledge or the number of letters after your name. Still, opticians should seek knowledge for themselves, not for higher pay.

If opticians were paid what they are really worth then you would see some getting paid less than minimum wage and some would make a million dollars a year.

Depends where you work and if you are crosstrained for other positions.

[Ms. Borge]

Does the payment for a permit in florida is annually or its just one payment for the stablishment. Please if someone knows let me know. thank you