Originally Posted by Lynne
I agree! I was the stepson of a WW 11 vet and my father inlaw was in North Africa. So Spec and I can't put into words the" DISREPECT I HAVE FOR YOU FOR DISREPECTING ARE MEN IN ARMS " put your head back where the sun don't shine you don't deserve the right to say anything.
And I don't want to SEE STEVE OR JO SUSPEND THIS POST BECAUSE IF WE CAN'T HAVE THE FREEDOM TO EXPRESS OUR SELFS THEN CLOSE THE WHOLE
BOARD DOWN!
Spexvet
Interesting. Do you feel that everyone who disagrees with you is on meds?[/QUOTE]
No Only you and Cindy:D :bbg:
Jediron: did you serve in Vietnam?
This President has spent more time on vacation than any other President in the history of our country. That, incidentally, is in both % and in raw numbers which is a real feat given that he's barely started his second term. I think that the protestors have every right to follow him to Texas to protest since it's so very difficult to find him in Washington these days.
The President has a very, very different job to do than either the Supreme Court or Congress. His job is, among other things, very specifically to manage the operation of the country this is a 24/7 job. Congress' job is, generally, write and agree to laws and the generalities of budgets, this is not a 24/7 job. The comparison to the Supreme Court is even more tenuous (and incidentlally while they're recessed they continue to do work, from their offices in the Court). If Bush isn't up to the task at hand maybe he shouldn't have run for the office.
And, since we're on the topic, there was an interesting exchange between reporters and Scott McClellan, the White House Press Secretary. He was asked, essentially, why Bush now (post Katrina) felt he had to return to Washington when up until that point the White House line had been that he could manage effectivly from Texas. McClellan couldn't come up with a cogent answer but what he did reveal was that Cabinet level officials were regularly flying from DC to Texas to meet with the President, on the order of 2 or three a day. Who do you think is paying for this? Any this guy purports to be fiscally responsible?
What difference does it make whether I did or not?:hammer:
Did Cindy S "deserve" a second mtg with Bush? No. Would he have been wise to give her one. Absolutely.
From a "neutralizing the issue" stance, I tend to agree. Also, had it been me, I would have walked on out when she set up camp, and let her have her say.
I don't really envy either side on this one. In my opinion (opinion being the key word), Cindy Sheehan has exposed herself to a lot of baggage from the camps on both sides of the issue. Personally, I think it would be hard enough to recover from the loss of a child. Perhaps this was her way of dealing with it, however. I mean, I think her initial motivation was she probably felt she didn't really express her true feelings to the President during her first meeting and wanted the opportunity to let him know that no- she really doesn't approve of the way he has managed this war. That's a natural inclination, I suppose. At some point, however, I would have been satisfied that my opinion had been given a pretty decent hearing in the media (much better than if the President had simply met with her, in fact), and gotten on with life- again, perhaps she just deals with loss differently.
On the President's side, I think he is doing what he feels is right. I would disagree with the assessment that he "doesn't want to hear" opposing views, or that he doesn't think about decisions before reaching them. I think he is probably one of those people who comes to a conclusion and feels an obligation to be true to it. Whether his conclusions on whether we should have invaded Iraq are correct is a matter for a different debate (arguments could be/have been made either way). One thing I admire in the guy is his ability to make a decision and stick to it- popular or not. One could argue this may not be a good quality in the leader of the free world, but I think leadership sometimes does involve determining a course of action and seeing it through.
Anyway, I don't think Cindy Sheehan is "on meds." I think she is a grieving mother who set out to make a statement and was victimized a second time by individuals who used her situation to their advantage (that would be the folks from the left). She's been victimized a third time by individuals who disagree with those who victimized her the second time and have sought to slander her (that would be the folks on the right).
The disappointing thing is, the "Sheehan Scenario" is becoming all too familiar in the media (the left AND right media). It happened to the Schiavos as well- folks with less interest than the actual plight of the person- and more interest in promoting their agenda- push these people into spotlights (and positions) that they are ill-equipped to handle.
We are dangerously close to doing the same thing with the victims of this horrific hurricane...
Pete Hanlin, ABOM
Vice President Professional Services
Essilor of America
http://linkedin.com/in/pete-hanlin-72a3a74
Well you're huffing and puffing about how you would be glad to go serve in Iraq but you're 54. Easy to say my friend, especially if you didn't go serve when you had a chance. If you did, my humblest apologies. (You'll have to bear with me, I was a military wife for 20 years and I grow weary of chest beating from folks who are only too easy with offering up other people and other people's children).
chm2023
Well you're huffing and puffing about how you would be glad to go serve in Iraq but you're 54. Easy to say my friend, especially if you didn't go serve when you had a chance. If you did, my humblest apologies. (You'll have to bear with me, I was a military wife for 20 years and I grow weary of chest beating from folks who are only too easy with offering up other people and other people's children).[/QUOTE]
Again what business is it of yours? You don't like the chest beating too bad. AND BY THE WAY I M NOT OFFERING other peoples children my brother is in Iraq right now so if I can't beat my chest you can't shoot your mouth off. The Army at the time would not take me because they classified me 4-F medical deferment, I could not get in. :finger:
PS If your were reading the Posts you would have seen my step father and my in law father were in world war 11 and my real father was in the military for 20 years so don't lecture me on your misguided ramblings.:finger:
My imagination runs wild - oh the responses to this statement! ;)
Spexvet
My imagination runs wild - oh the responses to this statement! ;)[/QUOTE]
YOOOOOOOOOOO Spec let your imagination go where it takes you and with you
that could be who knows where!:bbg:
Again what business is it of yours? You don't like the chest beating too bad. AND BY THE WAY I M NOT OFFERING other peoples children my brother is in Iraq right now so if I can't beat my chest you can't shoot your mouth off. The Army at the time would not take me because they classified me 4-F medical deferment, I could not get in. :finger:
PS If your were reading the Posts you would have seen my step father and my in law father were in world war 11 and my real father was in the military for 20 years so don't lecture me on your misguided ramblings.:finger: [/QUOTE]
Funny how many 4Fs there were back then. And whose father's (of people our age) WASN'T in WWII? I stand by my original view--people who have sacrificed nothing have no business judging people who have sacrificed their children. Talk is cheap. And often tiresome.
It's funny--and predictable, how Cindy Sheehan, the war, everything--is now completely out of the news. In my opinion, the hurricane aftermath is being over-covered. Not to diminish the agony of the folks victims of this, but the hard fact is that the more exposed something is, the more people grow enured to it and it loses its ability to move and outrage. That's the big danger I see, that the tremendous outpouring of resources and money dries up long before the needs of these poor people are really met. I fervently hope that I am wrong.
chm2023
Again what business is it of yours? You don't like the chest beating too bad. AND BY THE WAY I M NOT OFFERING other peoples children my brother is in Iraq right now so if I can't beat my chest you can't shoot your mouth off. The Army at the time would not take me because they classified me 4-F medical deferment, I could not get in. :finger:
PS If your were reading the Posts you would have seen my step father and my in law father were in world war 11 and my real father was in the military for 20 years so don't lecture me on your misguided ramblings.:finger: [/QUOTE]
Funny how many 4Fs there were back then. And whose father's (of people our age) WASN'T in WWII? I stand by my original view--people who have sacrificed nothing have no business judging people who have sacrificed their children. Talk is cheap. And often tiresome.[/QUOTE]
Your ramblings are also tiresome. I was not the one who gave the 4-F (to me) the Army was. You want someone to blame for your little charade then blame them. Your talk is cheap and sounding more like a blowhard, get off your little soap box and join the real world. As I told you my brother is in Iraq right now but you conveniently leave that out because you want to go on about your silly little no nonsense ramblings.:finger:
It's funny--and predictable, how Cindy Sheehan, the war, everything--is now completely out of the news. In my opinion, the hurricane aftermath is being over-covered. Not to diminish the agony of the folks victims of this, but the hard fact is that the more exposed something is, the more people grow enured to it and it loses its ability to move and outrage. That's the big danger I see, that the tremendous outpouring of resources and money dries up long before the needs of these poor people are really met. I fervently hope that I am wrong.
Amen sister... I understand the media is tripping over itself trying to get shots of dead bodies. I hope they are still covering this tragedy when some of the sensationalistic shots are over and the real work begins to rebuild. I guess shots of Habitat for Humanity rebuilding homes doesn't sell commercial time though...
What has ALWAYS irked me is the almost barely repressed glee some of these weather guys show when a hurricane is coming. I mean, I realize a major storm for them must be what a new product launch is for me, but still- the next Varilux or Crizal is unlikely to leave thousands homeless!
Pete Hanlin, ABOM
Vice President Professional Services
Essilor of America
http://linkedin.com/in/pete-hanlin-72a3a74
Funny how many 4Fs there were back then. And whose father's (of people our age) WASN'T in WWII? I stand by my original view--people who have sacrificed nothing have no business judging people who have sacrificed their children. Talk is cheap. And often tiresome.[/QUOTE]
Your ramblings are also tiresome. I was not the one who gave the 4-F (to me) the Army was. You want someone to blame for your little charade then blame them. Your talk is cheap and sounding more like a blowhard, get off your little soap box and join the real world. As I told you my brother is in Iraq right now but you conveniently leave that out because you want to go on about your silly little no nonsense ramblings.:finger:[/QUOTE]
Out of sympathy for that poor little guy waving his finger overtime, I am done with this conversation. Someone get that smiley a splint.
How exactly did she sacrify(sorry about the spelling) her son? Was it when he went into the service and signed the papers? Was it when he reenlisted? She lost a son. He made his own decisions, not her. Does she have a right to grieve? Of course, but she is no differnet then any other parent of any war who lost a child, husband, wife, father, mother, etc.
Again we need to end this thread. There are much more important things going on in the World, to be worring or debating the merits of this person.
Christina
Young men often make poor decisions. [warning: the following is an analogy, not a comparison. I am not insinuating that the war in Iraq is like taking drugs. OK?]If her son chose to take drugs, and died by an overdosed of heroin, shouldn't she be angry at the drug dealer for providing the drugs, and the DEA for being ineffective. Sure, the son did the doing, but things aren't always that simple.
Mrs. Sheehan's son made courageous decisions, not poor ones.
These are tragic times.
I don't know that courageous and poor are mutually exclusive. The decision he made caused him to lose his life. Bottom line.
She sacrificed her son in that when a country goes to war, only a very, very small percentage of people are actually put into harm's way--basically shouldering the burden for all of us. His death is an enormous loss, a "cost" the nation bears as it were, but that she, and other people of dead kids, bears disproportionally. Self evident this is a sacrifice--you know, as in sacrificing for the common good. Awful nice of you to allow she has a right to grieve.
Out of sympathy for that poor little guy waving his finger overtime, I am done with this conversation. Someone get that smiley a splint.[/QUOTE]
Oh now that you don't have somesort of come back you want to split. If you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen.
Spexvet
I don't know that courageous and poor are mutually exclusive. The decision he made caused him to lose his life. Bottom line.[/QUOTE]
And some people make decisions to drive there cars and loose there life. Bottom line.
Your still on this self righteous endeavor to put your point across above h-ll and high water. :hammer:
This was taken from: http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007122
By all accounts Spc. Casey Sheehan, Mrs. Sheehan's son, was a soldier by choice and by the strength of his character. I did not have the honor of knowing him, but I have read that he attended community college for three years and then chose to join the Army. In August 2003, five months into Operation Iraqi Freedom and after three years of service, Casey Sheehan re-enlisted in the Army with the full knowledge there was a war going on, and with the high probability he would be assigned to a combat area. Mrs. Sheehan frequently speaks of her son in religious terms, even saying that she thought that some day Casey would be a priest. Like so many of the individuals who have given their lives in service to our country, Casey was a very special young man. How do you decry that which someone has chosen to do with his life? How does a mother dishonor the sacrifice of her own son?
If you notice according this account Casey had served three years in the Army and had re-inlisted knowing full well there was a War going on. So Mrs. Sheehan's one sided diatribe is only self servering and by all accounts does not give all the facts that she conveniently leaves out. One, that her former husband does not believe in her beliefs and has filed for divorced. Two, that Casey was full aware that where he was ( Army ) and where he might go ( Iraq).
The above article in blue was written by: Mr. Griffin, you can read the whole article at the link above.
Mr. Griffin is the father of Spc. Kyle Andrew Griffin, a recipient of the Army Commendation Medal, Army Meritorious Service Medal and the Bronze Star, who was killed in a truck accident on a road between Mosul and Tikrit on May 30, 2003.
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